Arming Christian County teachers called 'an option'

Jan 25, 2013 Full story: Springfield News-Leader 14

Christian County school superintendents and staff members gathered to meet with law enforcement agents to discuss what would happen in the event of a school shooting.

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Jeff Pankey

Ozark, MO

#1 Jan 25, 2013
Im for everyone being armed.
R U Kiddingme

United States

#2 Jan 25, 2013
Jeff Pankey wrote:
Im for everyone being armed.
Of course you are. And is all the red on your neck leaving a ring around your collar?

What happened to families' responsibility? Teachers feed kids breakfast, snacks & milk. They give them pencils and papers. They teach them responsibility. They teach them respect and character education. They teach them to take turns, to use manners, to clean up after themselves. Teachers tutor after school to keep students up with the peers. They even send home weekend backpacks of food for nourishment. NOW they're expected to be able to shoot people? Most teachers have families, too. What about THEIR safety for their children? Where are parents who should be feeding the kids, supplying them with needed materials, teaching them character & motivation & responsibility - along with good hygiene?! Where are the parents who sit down & work on homework, especially reading & math, to help their child if they're falling behind? Where are the parents who should KEEP THEIR GUNS under lock & key and away from ammunition, teaching them safety about guns, looking for clues of mental instability? Teachers try to tell parents that their child is having problems, but then those same parents go to the administrators about how unprofessional & unfair the teachers are. NOW they want those teachers armed & prepared to kill. Most teachers are caring, loving people who WOULD give their lives for children, but come on public & WAKE UP! Why do you think you're losing good teachers? Why do you think public schools are full of bullies & messed-up students? PARENTS CAN NOT & WILL NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY & TRAIN & DISCIPLINE & LOVE & GIVE ATTENTION TO THEIR CHILDREN! Step up & be a PARENT & raise mentally & physically healthy children who can get along with others. Be an EXAMPLE of moral, good behavior! Set limits & rules & consequences - your children NEED them!
Arm a teacher with a gun & you may be walking over a few parents' bodies!!!!!!

Since: Jan 13

United States

#3 Jan 25, 2013
“R U”, Late in your comment, you made the statement “Most teachers are caring, loving people who WOULD give their lives for children…”. I wholeheartedly agree that a majority of the teachers I work with on a daily basis would be willing to give their lives to protect the students in their school. Here is where we part ways. You appear to not want a teacher to be able to protect herself while protecting her students. If properly training teachers respond to a weapon-in-school emergency using the skillset taught by certified crisis response self-defense instructors it would instead offer that teacher a way to survive WITH her life and the lives of her students. A gunman who is hell bent on shooting up a school will not flinch at the thought of shooting a teacher to get to her students. She is just another target on a list of the same.

The Clever Schools Superintendent showed himself to be a fool when he said basically the same thing you did. Following that he said being cut from a different cloth and because they love their students a teacher couldn’t be a guardian as well. OMFG!!! I can assure you, I know of at least one teacher who would rip your head off and defecate down your chest if she needed to in order to prevent you from harming one of the kids entrusted to her. Heaven help some idiot shooter if she were given the right to CCW at school. There is a damned good possibility should a shooter walk in the door she would gut shoot the bashturd just to watch him suffer. As the police arrive THEN she might 10-ring him. Then again...
Ida Gree

United States

#4 Jan 27, 2013
fresheyes wrote:
“R U”, Late in your comment, you made the statement “Most teachers are caring, loving people who WOULD give their lives for children…”. I wholeheartedly agree that a majority of the teachers I work with on a daily basis would be willing to give their lives to protect the students in their school. Here is where we part ways. You appear to not want a teacher to be able to protect herself while protecting her students. If properly training teachers respond to a weapon-in-school emergency using the skillset taught by certified crisis response self-defense instructors it would instead offer that teacher a way to survive WITH her life and the lives of her students. A gunman who is hell bent on shooting up a school will not flinch at the thought of shooting a teacher to get to her students. She is just another target on a list of the same.
The Clever Schools Superintendent showed himself to be a fool when he said basically the same thing you did. Following that he said being cut from a different cloth and because they love their students a teacher couldn’t be a guardian as well. OMFG!!! I can assure you, I know of at least one teacher who would rip your head off and defecate down your chest if she needed to in order to prevent you from harming one of the kids entrusted to her. Heaven help some idiot shooter if she were given the right to CCW at school. There is a damned good possibility should a shooter walk in the door she would gut shoot the bashturd just to watch him suffer. As the police arrive THEN she might 10-ring him. Then again...
Teachers are humans with conscientious ideas & political views which almost always HAVE to be stifled in order to keep peace in & out of the classroom. I'm a teacher, but I have a problem having a loaded gun on my person. Keeping one in the classroom? It would HAVE to be under lock & key along with being unloaded less some child injure themselves/another & we lose everything we have in a lawsuit. What chance of stopping a gun-toting, angry shooter would that present? I would rather spend my time locking my door, reassuring my students, hiding them in a corner, etc. than trying to load a gun to shoot someone! I don't even think I COULD kill someone, much as I love my students. If schools want to train & arm teachers/counselors/administra tors who want to be involved this way, so be it. But I don't think a loaded gun forced on every teacher is a good answer. I would probably leave the profession before being made to carry a gun. Too much like Nazi Germany to me if it comes to that. Sorry, I know that's not the answer Ozarkians want, but that's the way I feel. We've had so many rights taken away & demands placed on us - when & where does it END?!
Ida Gree

United States

#5 Jan 27, 2013
By the way, do all post office employees carry loaded guns now? They've had plenty of shootings. And maybe lawyers, judges, doctors, dentists, waitresses, gas station cashiers, etc. should all be carrying. WHY is it always placed on teachers?! And what good does it do to put a gun on everyone?
Ida Gree

United States

#6 Jan 27, 2013
And, what are the chances some new-hired, upset teacher wouldn't use that gun - just in the way you described the one teacher you know who would "gut shoot the Bashturd"? Not sure I want that teacher in MY school!

Since: Jan 13

United States

#7 Jan 27, 2013
Ida, I will attempt to address some of your concerns and perhaps ease your mind as well.

At no point has it ever been stated that an educator would be FORCED to carry a weapon. If such a program came to fruition it would by its very nature have to voluntary. I do think if an educator went through an initial application/selection process then the extensive psychological background checks that would be required, initial training, yearly rectification as well as refresher weapon retention courses then they should also be granted a pay increase as well. If during the teacher’s career they were found to be unable to recertify then they would lose the CCW at school privileges.

As for the teacher who would gut-shoot an armed intruder I would welcome her as my child’s teacher knowing that if the nightmare of Sandy Hook ever started to play out in Republic, she would not only place herself between the gunman and my child but she would have the mindset and capability of actually defending the life of my child and others that have been entrusted to her. I also hear the unloaded, lock and key etc… argument used again and again. Teachers who successfully complete the application process would likely be required to go through weapon use and retention training as well. In my opinion refresher courses and annual recertification in weapon use and retention would need to be a part of the program.

At the end of your first post, you mentioned we have had so many rights taken away, what about the right to life. When a gunman enters a school his ultimate goal is to deprive as many students, teachers, administrators aka citizens of the ultimate right, the right to life.

In your second post you once more showed a concern about many people in differing walks of life being forced to carry a weapon. Nobody, the NRA, the Sheriff nor I am in favor of forcing anyone to carry. There are professions where one must carry and others where it is a good idea. Law enforcement is one where you must carry. I know many judges, attorneys and doctors who carry but do so out of choice. Using careful observation skills you can plainly see many people in the jobs you mentioned also carry. If you knew what you were looking for you would see several restaurant managers, store owners, plumbers, electricians, even convenience store clerks who avail themselves of the CCW laws of this state. Not wanting you to become paranoid but concealed weapons and the common citizens who responsibly carry them are all around you. They actually are your best first defense against a mugging, a robbery or abduction. Look at the municipalities with the strictest gun control laws. Where are the highest per capita rates of robberies, muggings, homicides and other violent crimes. You sound like a person capable of doing her own research, go look for yourself at the Federally published information.

As for a new-hired upset teacher being one of the guardian types given an at school CCW permit that is what the application, background and training program s would prevent. It would not be an overnight process. Up to 18 months of training during which background and other checks would be done would preclude the “new-hire” from instantly becoming a guardian. One other thing, you keep making reference to my one teacher friend. If you had a choice of your life hanging in the balance, fractions of a second being critical and the person holding the weights had the protective mentality of a mother lemming or a mother bear, who would you chose?
Ida Gree

United States

#8 Jan 27, 2013
Thank you for your reply; you've definitely presented your side/facts well. As long as it is voluntary and not forced on ALL teachers, and monetary compensation for the time, training, and responsibility is involved, I'd consider it an option for those who wish to participate. Often times, though, those who refrain from "voluntary" things at school - tutoring, taking $ at ball games, giving more & more & more time, etc.- are looked down upon by administrators or board members as not being "caring" enough.(Never mind that we have families with limited time/access to us!) Background checks with continued updating & training would make it more palatable to me. I certainly know that school guards cost $ and still cannot be everywhere as needed. Something to think about, but I'm still not 100% sold on the idea of MY child being in a classroom with a gun.

Since: Jan 13

United States

#9 Jan 27, 2013
An open minded individual has become a rare find of late and I applaud you for you thoughtful response. I am aware that the modern education system makes far too many demands on the time of an individual teacher. My siblings and I can easily recall our mother spending hours each night grading papers on what we considered “our” time. Then there were football and basketball nights where she would take money at the gate. Both she and Mrs. Baldwin somehow drew that duty for the better part of a decade. That was way back in the early 60’s

While it is impossible to read his mind, I believe Sheriff Kyle opined the proposal of arming teachers/staff as an initial point of discussion. Even if that is not the case it has served to open a dialog between you and I. Surely we are not the only ones to delve into this topic and perhaps as a result a solution can be had.

Have a good week.
Beaner

Coffeyville, KS

#10 Feb 1, 2013
As an option to teachers carrying, there is also the very real possibility of retired Grandparents, both men and women, from military backgrounds volunteering to perform security functions at our schools. I know I would volunteer and so would many others and most would pay for the training necessary if we had to. Just something to think about. With budgets strained everywhere it could be an answer.
confused

Ozark, MO

#11 Feb 27, 2013
I'm wondering why we pay millions of dollars to protect elected officials and judges with security features but have a huge debate on how much money we will spend to protect our children.

But then again what's the point in arguing the country is run by people who truly do not represent the people but instead their special interest and themselves.
Beaner

Coffeyville, KS

#12 Mar 24, 2013
confused wrote:
I'm wondering why we pay millions of dollars to protect elected officials and judges with security features but have a huge debate on how much money we will spend to protect our children.
But then again what's the point in arguing the country is run by people who truly do not represent the people but instead their special interest and themselves.
I agree. The primary task of government at any level is the safety and well being of the people it intends to govern. Power corrupts. Greed enables. Politicians lie.
Funny

Rolla, MO

#13 Apr 18, 2013
R U Kiddingme wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you are. And is all the red on your neck leaving a ring around your collar?
What happened to families' responsibility? Teachers feed kids breakfast, snacks & milk. They give them pencils and papers. They teach them responsibility. They teach them respect and character education. They teach them to take turns, to use manners, to clean up after themselves. Teachers tutor after school to keep students up with the peers. They even send home weekend backpacks of food for nourishment. NOW they're expected to be able to shoot people? Most teachers have families, too. What about THEIR safety for their children? Where are parents who should be feeding the kids, supplying them with needed materials, teaching them character & motivation & responsibility - along with good hygiene?! Where are the parents who sit down & work on homework, especially reading & math, to help their child if they're falling behind? Where are the parents who should KEEP THEIR GUNS under lock & key and away from ammunition, teaching them safety about guns, looking for clues of mental instability? Teachers try to tell parents that their child is having problems, but then those same parents go to the administrators about how unprofessional & unfair the teachers are. NOW they want those teachers armed & prepared to kill. Most teachers are caring, loving people who WOULD give their lives for children, but come on public & WAKE UP! Why do you think you're losing good teachers? Why do you think public schools are full of bullies & messed-up students? PARENTS CAN NOT & WILL NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY & TRAIN & DISCIPLINE & LOVE & GIVE ATTENTION TO THEIR CHILDREN! Step up & be a PARENT & raise mentally & physically healthy children who can get along with others. Be an EXAMPLE of moral, good behavior! Set limits & rules & consequences - your children NEED them!
Arm a teacher with a gun & you may be walking over a few parents' bodies!!!!!!
It is so nice of you to come out and preach and lecture when guns are the issue! I do like the parents should take responsibility for their kids bit! This would be perfect if was geared at all the dead beat parents who refuse to take care of their kids. In Southern Missouri it is mostly dirty, old sneaky country bastards who think it is funny to knock up a woman and run off to your Godforsaken hills and hide! At best they wait to the kid is 2 or 3 and leave, dodging child support for the remainder of the poor kids life! In urban areas, u have men and women doing it! Millions of crack h*es and smack addicts pop babies out like a pez dispenser for their family or gov to raise! Yet, the Christians and the churches (both black and white) encourage these dumb cows to reproduce! That is where the real crime is! Lock these h*es up in prison if they test positive 4 dope anytime during the pregnancy or delivery! Dad refuses to pay child support lock his azz up and throw away the key! We would have a lot less problems with these kids nowadays!
Funny

Rolla, MO

#14 Apr 18, 2013
Don't say testing positive 4 drugs is not a crime. If they h*e has a baby in her fat nasty belly, it can be classified as CHILD ENDANGERMENT! If we need to amend the law and change a few words around to make it apply then lets do it!

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