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MaltaMon

Swedesboro, NJ

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#1321
Jan 31, 2013
 

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(coyote, the above posts are sloppy presentations, done on the fly--and on a smart phone--of important historic events. A lot of what I've said is buried in the papers of the Reagan and Bush Administrations because Bush Jr, armed with the new Patriot Act, issued an Executive Order on November 1, 2001, that effectively nullified the Presidential Reocrds Act of 1978, which would have gone into effect on January 20, 2001 (12 years to the day after President Reagan left office) were it not for a Cheney-directed effort in the Federal courts to prevent it from taking effect. The Administration's stalling tactics worked long enough to enable the President to kill it with new executive power acquired by the Patriot Act. Therein lay the truth to US backing of Iraq (financially and in terms of materiel, military training and strategy) in an eight-year proxy war against Iran. Thereinn lay that war's ultimate stalemate thanks to Reagan's illegal sale of state-of-the art military hardware to Iran in exchange for US hostages (released one at a time by Iran over three years after the first, a professor at the American University of Beirut, was hanged). Therein lay Bush Sr's role as Vice President in that effort to build Sadaam into our strongest client in the Persian Gulf--and his role in the sale of arms to the enemy (and the diversion of profits from that sale to illegally finance an allegedly anti-Communist war in Nicaragua--a role that he denied completely.. the truth of which never came out because as President, Bush Sr pardoned all of the officials who had been indicted, including Caspar Weinberger, Reagan's Defense Sec'y.. which prevented sworn public testimony that surely would have impilicated Bush... and because the de-classification of official documentation of his role would be avoided with his son's 2001 executive order... )
MaltaMon

Swedesboro, NJ

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#1322
Jan 31, 2013
 

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Now, apart from its disgraceful roles in those unnecessary wars, the United Nations has taken a number of effective stands for peace, notably in the Middle East, in Africa, and in Latin America. But it has tended to send troops in to enforce its mandates for peace--UNIFIL to create a "demilitarized zone" in Southern Lebanon, for example, in 1975--and those armed efforts seem rather opposed to its mission. The "writ" to which Kennedy referred in his inagural address is easily overlooked. As comedian Dave Chappelle, as George Bush, says, in his brilliant 2004 satire, "Black Bush", in which he plays an African-American version of the President--to a United Nations that threatens to oppose his war in Iraq: "Go ahead, sanction me.. sanction me with your Army. Oh! But you don't have no f---in' Army! Then I guess you better shut the F--K up! That's what I would do if I didn't have no f---in' army, I'd shut the F--K up!" That is essentially what the United States, with its effective control of the Security Council and the veto of all "permanent members" other than China's--has done, albeit with a far more diplomatic polish on the surface.
Phil

Manchester, UK

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#1323
Jan 31, 2013
 
Apologies.
I didn't realise you had the rights to the word 'petulant' but as regards a crashing bore, look in the mirror.
You clearly love the sound of your own voice.
I will leave because I can.
You can't.
This is your life, or what passes for one.
Nobody believes the bullshit about Bob.
Or the book.
Katie Mellish

UK

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#1324
Jan 31, 2013
 
MaltaMon wrote:
<quoted text> OMG.. lol.. Sorry, but there is one last thing: That was NOT intended for Bob. Sorry, Bob. This was directed to Phil. A Freudian slip, perhaps. Cheers.
....Iam glad iam not the only one on this forum that is having Freudian slips-Katie xx.
coyote

Halifax, Canada

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#1325
Jan 31, 2013
 
Appreciate the effort you have made to put forth your interpretation of the backgrounds to the incidents(?) with your 3 posts above. Not difficult to accept you may feel they are roughly summarized and I can only comment- sure good enough for me. I am impressed(with myself) a lot of your summary mirrors what I felt to be the case....That is that for now and I may fire back for your opinion on events now in progress for your thoughts. Trying to get some MOU,s on a get together in Manchester from some difficult rascals..... join in if you can help out-- same to Phil and we have to get Large elevated to a seat vs all 4 on the floor.. thanks
MaltaMon

Port Carbon, PA

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#1326
Jan 31, 2013
 
Nobody CARES about either. Lol.. There's a difference.
Phil

Manchester, UK

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#1327
Jan 31, 2013
 
No. Nobody really believes. There's the truth.
MaltaMon

Port Carbon, PA

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#1328
Jan 31, 2013
 

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MaltaMon wrote:
Nobody CARES about either. Lol.. There's a difference.
That was to Phil. Coyote, what do you mean by "MOUs in Manchester"? Include Phil in everything you wish, of course. That's not my business. I'm glad that you understood that my request to him to "leave" refers only to his interest in me. Apart from that we surely can coexist on the same page in a spirit of mutual tolerance.
MaltaMon

Port Carbon, PA

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#1329
Jan 31, 2013
 

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Phil wrote:
No. Nobody really believes. There's the truth.
Lol.. Well, that is quite okay with me. We both have "truths".
SLC

Arlington, VA

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#1330
Jan 31, 2013
 

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MaltaMon wrote:
coyote, The UN has betrayed it's original mission. Following it's useful role in the Berlin Airlift that ended in 1949, it allowed itself to be co-opted by President Truman in the summer of 1950 into three of the bloodiest and most destructive years in the history of modern warfare to which it donated its name, its prestige and authority. That's a far cry from the ideals of its Charter. And barely five years after the San Francisco conference in April 1945. Truman wanted to avoid a Congressional fight over a declaration of war; he wanted the presidency to have the power to wage these open-ended proxy "police actions" of the Cold War that ultimately avoided direct confrontation with the USSR. The United Nations wasn't similarly appropriated again until Bush Sr, in a successful effort to cover up his blunder in giving our coddled client despot, Sadaam Hussein whom the US used as its proxy in a war against Khomeni's Iran, the 'ok' to take a few kilometers of Kuwaiti territory to enable his access to a cigar-shaped oil field there. Sadaam went off the reservation: he took all of Kuwait and annexed it as Iraq's fourteenth province. The massive response to the Iraqui "invasion", which President Bush had provoked uninintentionally, was Desert Storm, manned by a UN-approved "coalition of the willing".
Excuse me, Mr. Maltomon forgot the little tidbit that North Korea started the Korean War by invading South Korea.
MaltaMon

Port Carbon, PA

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#1331
Jan 31, 2013
 

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SLC wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me, Mr. Maltomon forgot the little tidbit that North Korea started the Korean War by invading South Korea.
Yeah, I neglected to mention that. Thought it was a given. The point is that Truman, otherwise a great president, abused this nation's controlling interest in the UN that he'd help to launch, and by allowinf gim to, the UN surrendered its founding objectives of institutional autonomy, of functioning as an apolitical peacemaking entity with international backing, and as the ultimate repository and control of nuclear weaponry, them in its infancy. With Korea, the UN largely gave that up, its "writ" permanently weakened.
Katie Mellish

UK

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#1332
Jan 31, 2013
 
These threads about the UN and the Korean war are interesting some good stuff being posted here i hope you and Coyote and SLC keep posting .Iam interested in History and politics both past and present-lovely postings-MM Coyote and SLC keep posting on these subjects.Katie xx.
coyote

Halifax, Canada

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#1333
Jan 31, 2013
 
-- sure we appreciate your comments Katie. Until Bosnia- my country participated in these confrontations as a Commonwealth member- since then- Rwanda, Afghanistan, Libya our forces have gone as Canadian contingent assigned to UN or NATO. Will dig out a book in a.m. to get some stories as to why N. Korea initiated the Korean conflict or if in fact it did.... The Yanks and you as a Brit surely will have more insight than I as each of your countries have/had what seems experienced "empire" status although the U.S. may suggest a different definition of it's position from late 50's to now !!
Katie Mellish

UK

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#1334
Jan 31, 2013
 
coyote wrote:
-- sure we appreciate your comments Katie. Until Bosnia- my country participated in these confrontations as a Commonwealth member- since then- Rwanda, Afghanistan, Libya our forces have gone as Canadian contingent assigned to UN or NATO. Will dig out a book in a.m. to get some stories as to why N. Korea initiated the Korean conflict or if in fact it did.... The Yanks and you as a Brit surely will have more insight than I as each of your countries have/had what seems experienced "empire" status although the U.S. may suggest a different definition of it's position from late 50's to now !!
To Coyote hello again intersting stuff here that i have been reading over these past few days between you and MM very interesting indeed.Iam drinking Cyder at this moment so i cannot really comment on this subject at this time.Coyote iam really glad that you and MM are getting a long like a house on fire just like i said before i knew you two could get on i knew it.-Katie Mellish xxxxxx.
Katie Mellish

UK

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#1335
Jan 31, 2013
 
Katie Mellish wrote:
<quoted text>To Coyote hello again intersting stuff here that i have been reading over these past few days between you and MM very interesting indeed.Iam drinking Cyder at this moment so i cannot really comment on this subject at this time.Coyote iam really glad that you and MM are getting a long like a house on fire just like i said before i knew you two could get on i knew it.-Katie Mellish xxxxxx.
To Coyote hello i must be a bit togue in cheek here but i must say that these Bob threads have proved popular have'nt they-Hay Coyote don't go having a Fruedian slip now because i have mention tongue in cheek-Katie Mellish xxxxxx.
MaltaMon

Emmaus, PA

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#1336
Feb 1, 2013
 

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Katie Mellish wrote:
<quoted text>To Coyote hello i must be a bit togue in cheek here but i must say that these Bob threads have proved popular have'nt they-Hay Coyote don't go having a Fruedian slip now because i have mention tongue in cheek-Katie Mellish xxxxxx.
.By referring to them as "these Bob threads" you have promoted Dorval Bob to another dimension: he is now a metaphor. Or a cyber theme park. I can't decide which. But I simply love the title, "Bob Threads"
coyote

Halifax, Canada

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#1337
Feb 1, 2013
 
Following WW11 Truman was faced with many domestic and international problems- not sure if there has been a rival. I made a fleeting search as to why N. Korea invaded the S. and have not found the cause. Just a couple years B4 each Korea had est. their identities as republics and not much found to see that was a prob. Then -swiftly- the North overran the South almost in its' entirety w/o any declaration of war. For some reason the capitulation slowed and gave time for the US to start getting troops, military equipment to the South. I think, after he was fired by Truman, MacArthur stated the North could easily have taken the entire peninsula w/o much trble. The (?) delay allowed UN forces (primarily US) to get a foothold and start the horrendous task ahead.My goodness, ol' Harry was faced with probs in Middle East, communism at home and abroad, rail strikes, mining strikes, trying to get supplies to the hundreds of thousands imprisoned by blockade of Berlin,++++...! Palestine was claimed to be a zionest state and the leaders said "nay" to the British Mandate of a "police" force being set up to ensure the arab residents were treated okay- the UN and Harry included- endorsed same but "nuttin'" was done about it. Then Jordon, Egypt, Iraq,Syria all atttacked Palestine and Harry somehow got military hardware to the zionists to repel and survive that upheavel- meanwhile all the other sits mentionned above and just imagine- he had 'nuff stuff to win a 2nd term in office by defeating Dewey(sp-?) and looks as though HT was the only one who was confident he could pull it off.... the guy was awesome.... the UN- well the body consists of parts so usually it takes more than one not working to render the body of having any clout. Heck- that is history- WTF if he had not fired Gen DM ? That boy was a headin' for the Chinese border with an int'l UN force of seasoned troops....my thots only...likely some inaccuracies-oh well!
coyote

Halifax, Canada

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#1338
Feb 1, 2013
 
KM: MM's post re Reagan, Bush Sr. etc and the breach of policy with arms sale to Iraq then money funnel to Nicaragua... key players in the field op. Oliver North ( smart but ruthless US Intelligence guy), Terry Waite (from Anglican Bishop,s - I do not know the proper positions) recruited to help negotiate the hostage release--not a GOOD story !!
MaltaMon

Allentown, PA

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#1339
Feb 1, 2013
 
Truman essentially esyablished the framework for the post-war world. The invasion og South Korea came eight months after he'd "lost" China (not my view, but the prevailing assessment at the time), a "violation" of his own strategy, or "doctrine".. The Truman Doctrine was to contain the spread of Soviet influence. Communism was regarded as a monolithic, philosophically founded conspiratorial effort toward world domination. Truman endorsed Churchill's "iron curtain" assessment--indeed, he'd offered the former prime minister the forum at which to make his pronouncement--Westminster at Fulton, Missouri, the president's home state--and accompanied him there. It wasn't at all a popular gesture on the part of an unelected president who had been in office less than eleven months. The American press, not yet wise to their "cold war" with the Stalin that,Churchill and Truman were well aware had, despite their wartime alliance, before VE Day--indeed, before Roosevelt's death-- with Stalin's unilateral abrogation of the provisions of the just-negotiated agreement at Yalta that called for free elections in Poland. Like Churchill, and unlike FDR, Truman never trusted "Uncle Joe".. He blocked Soviets from occupying Greece and Turkey, funded the reconstruction of Western Europe (which he managed to get through the enormously hostile Republican-controlled 88th Congress by giving credit for the plan publicly to his war-hero Secretary of State, ex-General George Marshall.(the funds were offered to the USSRUSSR and Eastern Europe as well, but turned down in favor of Stalin's's far less generous plan He refused. to quit Berlin; he created NATO.
SLC

Arlington, VA

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#1340
Feb 1, 2013
 

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coyote wrote:
Following WW11 Truman was faced with many domestic and international problems- not sure if there has been a rival. I made a fleeting search as to why N. Korea invaded the S. and have not found the cause. Just a couple years B4 each Korea had est. their identities as republics and not much found to see that was a prob. Then -swiftly- the North overran the South almost in its' entirety w/o any declaration of war. For some reason the capitulation slowed and gave time for the US to start getting troops, military equipment to the South. I think, after he was fired by Truman, MacArthur stated the North could easily have taken the entire peninsula w/o much trble. The (?) delay allowed UN forces (primarily US) to get a foothold and start the horrendous task ahead.My goodness, ol' Harry was faced with probs in Middle East, communism at home and abroad, rail strikes, mining strikes, trying to get supplies to the hundreds of thousands imprisoned by blockade of Berlin,++++...! Palestine was claimed to be a zionest state and the leaders said "nay" to the British Mandate of a "police" force being set up to ensure the arab residents were treated okay- the UN and Harry included- endorsed same but "nuttin'" was done about it. Then Jordon, Egypt, Iraq,Syria all atttacked Palestine and Harry somehow got military hardware to the zionists to repel and survive that upheavel- meanwhile all the other sits mentionned above and just imagine- he had 'nuff stuff to win a 2nd term in office by defeating Dewey(sp-?) and looks as though HT was the only one who was confident he could pull it off.... the guy was awesome.... the UN- well the body consists of parts so usually it takes more than one not working to render the body of having any clout. Heck- that is history- WTF if he had not fired Gen DM ? That boy was a headin' for the Chinese border with an int'l UN force of seasoned troops....my thots only...likely some inaccuracies-oh well!
A number of inaccuracies here.

1. The North Korean invasion drove South Korean and UN troops all the way down to Pusan at the southern tip of the Korean peninsula where they were able to establish a perimeter. MacArthur then planned and executed a surprise attack from the sea at Inchon, using US naval power. He moved quickly from Inchon towards Seoul, cutting the North's lines of communication, which caused the almost immediate collapse of the North Korean forces besieging Pusan.

2. MacArthur then pursued the fleeing NK army and approached the Chinese border, which caused the intervention of the
Red Chinese Army. The overwhelming consensus of military historians is that this was a monumental error on his part, particularly as he had advised Truman that the Chinese would not intervene.

3. The nascent State of Israel did not get any significant weaponry from the US in 1948; most of the weaponry they utilized came from what was then Czechoslovakia, together with some captured British arms.

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