Boys nude swim gym class

[Phillip]

Stephen Dunn said "It appears as if our boys' gym thread has been deleted; I'm sure that's due to the juvenile spam that poisoned it. If you're interested in resuming the discussion, I'm more than happy to share my experiences with you." I would also like to resume this discussion, as I didn't get the chance to participate in the last one before it was hijacked. If this is possible, I'll post my experiences from the 1970s as well. I'm in Minneapolis also (now) but did not grow up or attend school here. Thanks.

Phillip

[Phillip]

OK, I'll try this here:

I grew up always swimming naked at school, at the Y, and on the swim team. This wasn't a choice, so we didn't consider it right or wrong. Adults made choices for us all the time. When to go to school, what kind of shoes to wear to church, how to behave at the grocery store. We were accustomed to rules already being in place, and we adapted to them, as kids do everywhere. So nudity in gym class and at the YMCA was an accepted part of a pre-existing system. And as an accepted part of this system, we considered it normal, not sexual. It helped that the gym teachers were also nude. Generally, before class got underway, the teacher would be wrapped in a towel, but once class started, he would hang it over a chair and get in the pool nude with the rest of us. No one thought anything about this. It was completely accepted that swimming was done nude, so we would have thought it strange if he hadn't swum nude as well. I don't know when things changed, or why. That happened after I graduated from high school. Nudity among boys in environments such as these - public or private - was never something to be feared or ashamed of. I should add that, because it was pre-accepted, we didn't have to go through any sort of adaption or acceptance phases. We were free to enjoy it, without guilt or embarrassment. In 11th grade, mine was the last gym class of the day. We often stayed after for another half hour or so, if the swim team wasn't practicing, and played in the pool naked. I feel bad for kids today who are so ashamed of themselves that something as pleasant and innocent as this is necessarily avoided. We've lost a lot.

Phillip

[Thom]

Interesting that Phillip also lives in Minneapolis. He doesn't say where he went to school, but if we can assume it was in Minnesota, then maybe this is a midwestern thing? Or did it happen all over the US?
My reactions (years ago) were similar to Phillip's. The system was already in place before I came along, and it was clearly established by adults, so we kids never questioned it. By the time I was an 18-year-old senior on the swim team, I had been swimming nude for so long that wearing a suit was a foreign experience to me. We wore suits for swim team competitions, but we didn't like the feeling at all, and believed the fabric actually slowed us down.
We would have been perfectly comfortable competing in the nude, because our team was well-adjusted to nude practices. Having family, parents, etc. occasionally come to watch us practice made taking it one step further seem perfectly reasonable. We asked about competng without suits a couple of times, but the coach always said "maybe next time". Never with an explanation, though.

Thom

[Stephen Dunn]

Are there two of these replacement threads? I'd like post, but on which one?

Stephen Dunn

[tommy]

nude is normal it is the mind of the looker who may see the sexual thing in it and whats wrong with that as all animals have desires not always excepted .most object who are media and hypocrites mostly gay .love all nudity.tommy

[mel]

We swam naked in Minnesota in the sixties in boys only classes. The instructor was also nude as well as student teachers who came fairly often. I remember no one seemed to care. The only weird part was warm-up exercises on the pool deck before swimming including jumping jacks. Visualize 25 naked guys doing that with our penises flopping up and down! I didn't like diving off the low board. Ouch! There were never any girls except occasionall they would come"early" for the next class in their swimsuits. Two girls actually hid in our locker room to watch us take showers. It all seemed normal then as I didn't even know what gay people were or sexual perverts. My friend's Mother was a physical education teacher and one Saturday she let us into the pool when she had paperwork to do. His sisters were along and when his mother left we all went naked and had a lot of fun. There was absolutely no sex involved but it was fun and they said they were jealous the guys could do this but not the girls.

[your mum]

i have garrrrrr?

[Brad Gardner]

I'm only 29, so nude swimming was stopped all together by the time I was born. I assume the reasons it stopped was 70 coed everything. I can't image myself being told i had to swim nude because I never did the first time I remember swimming was when I was 4 years old at a huge public pool in Germany and everyone was in a swim suit as was I. At the same time, I did become ashame of my nudity where I couldn't even strip off in a changing room let alone go out where none males might see. Although, I live in Georgia and it's probley different where you are we didn't even have to shower after Gym on top of that the showers didn't have warm water nor did they want to incourage bathing with towers and soup. In the 90's we were over aware of homosexuality as even a few of my class mates "out" in middle school.

[Stephen Dunn]

I seem to be one of three guys on this thread from Minnesota. Maybe we should all get together and talk about old times!
I grew up in a small town up north, and swimming nude was not only the norm for all ages and all grades, it was considered healthful and hygenic, and good for us. I never experienced swimming any other way than naked.
Our 10th & 11th grade gym teacher was a former marine and bodybuilder who thought the human body was God's finest creation, and he taught our swim class in the nude. He was completely out there when it came to his body, and made no attempt at modesty. If another teacher came to the pool during class, he would stand there fully nude and talk. Two or three times when he was called to the office, he just put on a towel.
We had a few student teachers over the years, and they taught swim class in the nude as well. There were also times when we had substitute teachers. Those guys did not teach in the nude, but there were a few occasions when we had women substitutes. Of course, they wore clothes, but we did not. That was a little strange at first, but we got used to it pretty quickly.
When we were in the gym, we did not wear shirts. This wasn't a punishment. With boys playing sports, it just made more sense. More comfortable, less laundry. It wasn't uncommon for the football players or hockey players or the swim team members to lose even the shorts sometimes during an especially sweaty activitiy. Naked in the gym was as acceptable as naked in the pool.
I was on the swim team almost my entire life. Our practices were nude, and our swim coach (who was not the gym teacher) was also nude. Suits weren't an option. At meets, our warm-up laps were done in the nude, even with spectators. If we chose to, we could put on our suits just before the competition got under way, but this was NOT required. Sounds strange today, I know, but suits were optional at swim meets, and most of us went without. We didn't think of this as gay, or exhibitionist or sexual. We just preferred swimming this way. We had been swimming nude our entire lives, and we often had spectators when we practiced naked, so it was not a big deal to do the same at competitions. It was no secret that swimming was always nude at school, so neither was it a surprise that the swim team competed that way. Again, this was a sport, not a peep show. I know it would be viewed differently today, but it was how things were back then.
There's plenty more I could say, but I'll give someone else a chance.
Stephen

[mel]

Thanks Stephen for your comments on the "old days" in Minnesota. I was on the basketball team and we had to make 20 baskets in a row when shooting free throws. If we missed one we had to remove an article of clothing. Some of the guys never made it and ended up naked. The girls who came to watch practice loved that. Some of the girls on the swim team were "rebels" and went nude during practice like the guys but never at meets. Some of the girls would come during boys practice and swim laps in the nude with them. It was unusual in Minnesota to have an outdoor pool. I had a friend who had one and everyone loved skinny dipping there in the summer. There was no sex at all but the girls would tease us about the "shrinkage" the guys had. Later at HS reunions we would all laugh at how much fun we had in the nude when we were young.

[A Positive Experience]

Nude showers and swimming proved a positive expericence for me over the long run, but the path was a rocky one. Allow me to elaborate a little.

I underwent a spinal fusion at age to which left me with a noticeably-deformed torso. To add to the mix, I was one of perhaps 5% of the boys in my school system who had not been circumcised in infancy, and matured very late sexually. Needless to say, I endured a good deal of locker-room intimidation.

The taunting ended as I matured and "caught up" during the high school years, but what really put an end to the insecurity was manadatory swimming instruction, in the nude, as a college freshman. With the "gangster element" removed, the class turned into a supportive environment.

A couple of yers after graduation, a friend who was into social nudism noticed my deformity and explained that the usual exclusions against single msles would be waived in my case due to my personal circumstances. I was again introduced to a positive experience.

Nudity and exposure has been an element of the bonding experience among males for centuries, although the emergence of single-sex bathing in groups during the industrial age undoubtedly made the practice more common. The outcry against it can be linked directly to the emergence of feminism. Everyone's experience is unique; in my own case, it helped greatly, but only over the long run.

[Accepted and Acceptable]

The Jr. High School I attended in Massachusetts (1968-1969) was so old (1880's) that it didn't have a functional gymnasium. So the 8th grade boys would take their weekly 2 hour PE class at the YMCA gymnasium down the street.(This was pre-Title IX, so the girls could still take their class on the playground during spring and fall and take an indoor "health" class during the winter, as did all 7th graders.

Every third week, after changing from our school clothes to regulation gym shorts, T-Shirts and sneakers, and having 30 min. of exercise in the gym, we would have an hour of swimming in the Y's pool. Although we had heard from older students that we would all have to be nude for this part of our class, I can still remember being quite surprised the first day when the teacher announced at the end of exercise: "Go downstairs to your lockers, take off all of your clothes, and line up at the entrance to the shower room."

So along with 25 classmates, I stripped naked, lined up and waited until we were told to walk beneath a running shower to rinse off before walking down a corridor to the pool deck. We did as we were told, and no one questioned why. To me, it kind of made sense: why go to the trouble of bringing a bathing suit, and then have to carry it around while wet all day, when all that inconvenience could be avoided by going into the pool without any clothing.

It was all completely innocent. As far as I know, no one felt uncomfortable. For a few weeks prior, we had been required to take a group shower in an open communal shower room after gym class, so we were already accustomed to being nude in each other's presence. It actually felt liberating to be able to engage in an activity without clothing. The only uneasiness I recall had nothing to do with being nude per se, but rather related to the fact that I had reached puberty much earlier than almost all of my classmates, so I stood out as different having fully grown pubic hair.

[john]

Actually nudity is so normal that everyday, when i am at home, i spend the time naked while watching television or reading. Nudity is to be enjoyed. I'm glad that i , for one thing, love nudity.

[Thom]

I think this thread is very interesting, coming from so many different views and perspectives from across the country, although the midwest is particularly well-represented.

Stephen Dunn says his swim team not only practiced in the nude, but also competed in the nude. We heard about you guys! You must have gone to school in far northern Minnesota, where this kind of thing was much more widespread. Our swim team wanted to compete nude, but our coach would not allow it. He didn't actually say no, he would say "maybe next time" or "some day", though it never happened. We thought this meant that it would be allowed if we ever got up north. My older brother's team did compete up in Ely (I think it was Ely, but now I'm not sure) and they were given the choice, as you were.

I wonder if some of the readers of this post are viewing it from the wrong angle. This topic shouldn't be looked upon as boys being forced to swim nude. The same situation would present a different opinion today, but back then (1970s) it was normal.

You could also make the case that we were forced to go to school, forced to do homework, forced to take tests. But if you understand that this nude environment, this naked swimming, this whole system was as acceptable and unremarkable as school, homework and exams, then you'll understand why we didn't question it or think about it, and why the swim team CHOSE to swim nude, and WANTED to compete nude.

I think today, the male body has become highly sexualized in ways that it has never been before. In the 1970s, male nudity was treated as healthy and acceptable. Of course, this would have to be in context, but a nude boy was viewed differently from a nude girl.

"Good girl" vs. "Bad girl" was all about virtue and vice; sexuality and purity; how far she'll go or not go.

A bad boy was about attitude and defiance.

These were social and gender differences that defined how boys and girls treated each other, and certainly how adults viewed the boys and the girls. A naked girl in gym class would have been an outrage. A naked boy would have been, at best, unnoticed, at worst, a prank. A naked girl in swim class would have been obscene. A naked boy in swim class would have been correct, healthy, and normal.

So our nudity can't be discussed in this thread through today's lens, unless you understand that our perceptions in the 1970s simply DID NOT match those of today. We were always nude during swim practice, and when the teams' mothers watched from the bleachers, neither we nor they reacted with discomfort. We were athletea in uniform, and they fully approved of what we were doing. It wasn't shameful, or embarrassing, or arrousing. I would have a conversation with them between laps, and neither of us would really realize my nakedness; I was SUPPOSED to be naked.

Of course, this is quite impossible today, and I think it's truly sad. Our bodies have become something to fear, and some boys are even ashamed of themselves around other boys. Don't you think that's a terrible loss?

Thom

[Marcia]

Is this like the World's best kept secret? I never heard of this until today.

[Phillip]

Marcia,

You not having heard of it doesn't make it a secret. It seems to me that just about any guy over 40 experienced this. And it wasn't just at school. Swimming at the YMCAs was always nude for everyone, including the lifeguards. Of course, girls couldn't join the Y back then - they had the YWCA. Water sports in college were also done in the nude, including competitive swimming and water polo. And this wasn't just true in the U.S., but in Europe as well.

Back then, we came out of this environment more comfortable with ourselves and each other. Today the pendulum has swung so far in the opposite direction that students won't even shower after gym class. Now, which is truly the more problematic?

Phillip

[Thomas]

I happened on this site after a conversation with a group of guys who grew up in the 50's and 60's and wanted to know the reason for required nude swimming. It was totally acceptable then without question but no reason was given for requiring nude swimming for guys.

Like others who posted comments, I found swim class at the Y, P.E. swim class in high school and swim team of which I was a member always in the nude. Our Y instructor was nude for class as was our swim coach during practice. There were no questions about this custom. Unlike some others we only competed twice in the nude and only once before a small but mixed male-female crowd. Even then there was no sense of embarrasment or inappropriateness.

Personally, this was never an issue for me. Common showers and nude swim were normal. I am amazed at young guys today who are so uncomfortable that they cannot change clothes in a locker room or shower. I do not think that attitude is healthy or normal, but maybe that is how I grew up.

Whatever the reason for the practice, it did engender a comfortableness with our bodies and a de-sexualized sense of our bodies. Perhaps today the connection between sexuality and nudity is appropriately connected.

Yet I never understood the reason for rquiring nude swimming.. At times we heard about suits clogging the pool filters but girls' swim suits were required. I think the practice just was part of the idea that guys being nude was neither sexual nor offensive..

Thomas

[Thomas]

Hi again,

The second to the last paragraph should read "inappropriately connected"

Thomas

[mel]

I think nude swimming for guys was because guys didn't want to bother with soggy suits and it was just easier. I don't think there are many guys who would care if a girl saw them naked. Girls who saw us then, just giggled and didn't get "turned on" by the sight of a penis. Because they are trained that way from birth, girls are much more concerned with their personal appearance. Girls would be appalled if a guy saw them naked without their hair styled and makeup applied perfectly. Girls spend thousands of dollars on breast implants and other cosmetic surgery. Most guys don't do that. I am always amused at the NFL cheerleaders who don't even watch the game and prance around in skimpy outfits. Of course that isn't always true and I had high school friends, both boys and girls, who loved to skinny dip together with no sex involved. I think because of that we all had a healthier idea about sex later in our lives and we guys didn't spend money on magazines to see a naked girl. Of course today there is TV news everyday about sexual perverts, abduction of children, homosexualtity in the Minneapolis airport bathroom, and other things which we did not have to face then.

[Tom]

Phillip:

Totally agree with you. I attended an all male private religious school, swimming classes where in the nude even in the late 1960's. The assistant swim coach, a teacher in his 20's, was always naked like the rest of us adolescent boys, if only to make us more comfortable about our maleness. MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING.