Ecuador heads for socialist reform of constitution

Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa celebrates after getting knowledge of the possitive result of the referendum to launch a broad constitutional reform. Full Story
Michelle

United States

#21 Jun 1, 2007
I guess you haven't talked to those people who have actually had to live under those regimies. Their stories are horrifying. Everyone in Cuba has a family member who has been killed by Castro. Everyone is paranoid about who they say anything to, because they could be an informant. They consider Cubans in Cuba, slaves, who are indoctrinated since elementary. You don't follow the communist line, you don't eat, you don't get an education, and you and your family is harrassed.
The concept in very nice, the reality is hell.
Michelle

United States

#22 Jun 1, 2007
Vangelist wrote:
<quoted text>
NOT TRUE... El Telegrafo is not closed.
The government is now controlling this aset because it was previosly aquired with STATE FUNDS in a scandelous bank fraud perpetrated in a previous government.
Think '80's Savings and Loans Scandle'... Where the corrupt 'private bankers'... fleece the public... spemd more than they have... And... leave the government with the BILL.
"...La buena noticia es que EL TELÉGRAFO tal como se demuestra, es propiedad 99% de la Agencia de Garantías de Depósitos, es decir de todos los ecuatorianos y servirá para resarcir en algo a los estafados por Aspiazu y por el Banco del Progreso".
Government confiscation renders the media outlet useless.
Fred

United States

#23 Jun 1, 2007
If fascist capitalists weren't so damned greedy, the majority of people in countries like Venezuela and Equador wouldn't vote for Stalinist leaders.
Fred

United States

#24 Jun 1, 2007
Michelle wrote:
Everyone in Cuba has a family member who has been killed by Castro.
You'd make a better case against Castro if you didn't exaggerate so much.
Michelle

United States

#25 Jun 1, 2007
Fred wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd make a better case against Castro if you didn't exaggerate so much.
I'm not trying to make a case against Castro, I'm trying explain what Cubans who have experienced Castro's Cuba first hand, say. I have to admit that Cuba doesn't really hurt me as much as Venezuela or Ecuador. But, the experiences of people under those regimes will make your hair stand. Why anyone would ever insist on complete government contol of everything is beyone me.

Anyway, you can rationalize anything. They blame "greedy capitalits" for everything and therefore get away anything.

The small problem is that this has all been done before and for quite some time. This is the same sad story that has been going on for years. It happens to be the leftists in Ecuador who have promised wealth distribution to the poor and looted the country. Of course they blame everyone else, including the US for let's say loaning them money, which they pocketed instead of giving it to the intended poor.

It is Correa's government who manipulated the bonds to steal millions at the country's expense. The difference with Correa, is that he is obviously not going to take his money and run. He is preparing the path for a permanent seat.

Another problem with Ecuador, is that unlike Venezuela and Cuba. Nobody really cares. It seems that Ecuador is insignificant as compared to other countries. There is no in-depth news regarding the problems in Bolivia, Ecuador, and Nicaragua.
Michelle

United States

#26 Jun 1, 2007
http://www.venezuelatoday.net/

These grassroots sites, intended to defend Venezuelans, and point to news media in Latin America, don't even mention Ecuador. Even Bolivia is on their radar screen.

I bet Venezuela eventually comes out of this, and Ecuador ends up in civil war or as part of a neighboring country. This is all Chavez' doing to begin with, but Ecuador is much more vulnerable, and nobdy cares.

“Amicus humani generis ”

Since: Apr 07

planet Earth

#27 Jun 1, 2007
Michelle wrote:
http://www.venezuelatoday.net/
These grassroots sites...blah, blah, blah...
You're looking at the wrong sites, as they're propaganda for the oligarchs. If you want to inform yourself via true grassroots sites, I recommend you start here:
http://www.americans-for-chavez.com/links.htm...

Since: May 07

Greenwood, IN

#28 Jun 1, 2007
Doug wrote:
As of 5/24/07 I personally don't like the foot steps he's taking behind Chavez! Like the currently "calmed" down attempt to attack reporters with theats of jail and fines. Like Chavez, he seems to be emmulating totalitarian actions. Chavez is on his way to shutting down an opposition tv channel in Caracas...why so he can tell the people what he feels is right and keep them in the dark...just look at north Korea. The fact that Chavez openly insults politician or says bad things about them, makes young and volunerable people beleive in what he says, thus forming followers of his lies. The least those guys can do is act responsably and treat their counterparts with respect, even if they don't agree with them. Along with those that follow him (including Correa) he's forming mentalities which are anti-USA. That can't be good for anyone in the long run....
If a network in the United States were advocating for a military overthrow of the United States would you support closing that network down or whould you support letting it continue to call for a military overthrow? its a simple question, let us see your answer.

“Amicus humani generis ”

Since: Apr 07

planet Earth

#29 Jun 1, 2007
Marine Vietnam Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
If a network in the United States were advocating for a military overthrow of the United States would you support closing that network down or whould you support letting it continue to call for a military overthrow? its a simple question, let us see your answer.
Excellent question, Marine Vietnam Veteran! I'm quite curious as to what the answer(s) will be.
Michelle

United States

#30 Jun 1, 2007
Marine Vietnam Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
If a network in the United States were advocating for a military overthrow of the United States would you support closing that network down or whould you support letting it continue to call for a military overthrow? its a simple question, let us see your answer.
You guys don't seem to understand that Chavez has taken over ALL media. RCTV, is just another example. If he hasn't completely shut them down and taken over, he has his opponents intimidated and threatened. RCTV simply didn't comply. He has taken over major domestic and foreign investments. He has taken over congress etc. Of course all this is being done, according to Chavez, in the name of his people, but he is a dictator no matter how you spin it.

These same actions have taken place in Cuba and all over Africa. They haven't helped anyone. I gaurantee you that the so-called, Americans for Chavez, are funded by Venezuelas petro money that Chavez uses as his personal piggy bank.

In a way, I'm glad Chavez' true colors are finally showing. Even my most leftist family members are appalled. They have denied his influence and agenda for a long time. Now, they are seeing the light. It always seems more palatable when you are not the one personally effected. They are starting to get nervouse, and that is a good thing.

Since: May 07

Greenwood, IN

#31 Jun 1, 2007
Observandum wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent question, Marine Vietnam Veteran! I'm quite curious as to what the answer(s) will be.
Oh there won't be any answer.To answer they would have to reevaluate all the propaganda they have been fed.

“Amicus humani generis ”

Since: Apr 07

planet Earth

#32 Jun 1, 2007
Marine Vietnam Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh there won't be any answer.To answer they would have to reevaluate all the propaganda they have been fed.
Looks like you're right. The only one replying, Michelle, evades the question and instead posts incoherent, silly arguments which are of no relevance.
With "geniuses" like her, no wonder a total idiot like Bush gets elected — not once, but twice.
Michelle

United States

#33 Jun 1, 2007
Observandum wrote:
<quoted text>
Looks like you're right. The only one replying, Michelle, evades the question and instead posts incoherent, silly arguments which are of no relevance.
With "geniuses" like her, no wonder a total idiot like Bush gets elected — not once, but twice.
On and you of course all knowing and the only owner of the truth. No wonder Chavez appeals to you so much. Typical of you loonies to personally attack those who don't agree with you.
Vangelist

Walnut Creek, CA

#34 Jun 3, 2007
Michelle wrote:
<quoted text>Blah...Blah...Blah...T his is the same sad story that has been going on for years. It happens to be the leftists in Ecuador who have promised wealth distribution to the poor and looted the country. Of course they blame everyone else, including the US for let's say loaning them money, which they pocketed instead of giving it to the intended poor.
Name one TRUE socialist who has come to power in Ecuador before Correa.

All the THIEVES who have governed before have been greedy 'POPULIST CAPITALISTS' who turn a blind eye when the World Bank and other CORRUPT financial entities charge INORDENANT EXECUTIVE SUMS while acting like LOAN SHARKS !

Correa showed them the door before they could use him to take advantage of Ecuador
Michelle

United States

#35 Jun 4, 2007
Vangelist wrote:
<quoted text>
Name one TRUE socialist who has come to power in Ecuador before Correa.
All the THIEVES who have governed before have been greedy 'POPULIST CAPITALISTS' who turn a blind eye when the World Bank and other CORRUPT financial entities charge INORDENANT EXECUTIVE SUMS while acting like LOAN SHARKS !
Correa showed them the door before they could use him to take advantage of Ecuador
Let's start with José María Velasco Ibarra who oversaw the "reforma agraria" (1964) which was a government attempt to steal from those who were successfull farmers and give it to those who voted for him. For some strange reason, this resulted in inflation and food shortages.

The latest (Lucio Gutiérrez & Alfredo Palacio), who were socialist friends of Castro and Chavez, and paved the way for Correa.

Guttierez, for example, is the one who used the military to go in and consfiscate a foreign investment company, Occidental Petroleum (Oxy), and then give the contract that Oxy paid for to ... surprise, surprize CHAVEZ.

They have mostly been leftists to one degree or another, with the possible exception of Cordero and Mahuat.

Castro's influence has been a factor since the 60's. The link below of a Cuban "journalist" gives some insight has to how they work.

http://ogil.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/periodis...

http://ogil.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/periodis...
Claudia Gist

United States

#36 Jun 4, 2007
The real useful idiots are people like Vangelist, Observandum, and Fred, who seem to hate the United States. Their ideas are based on the misinformation and propaganda effectively spread by the powerful media initiated by the Soviets and Castro. These media is now fueled by Chávez with millions stolen from the Venezuelan people and by Islamic terrorists.
Chávez and Islamic terrorists are working hard together and apparently effectively in feeding lies and misinformation not only to fools in Latin America but, mainly, to fools in the United States. Of course, it is possible that the “fools” whose “pearls of wisdom” we are seeing here are not really fools but people working for Chávez-Islamic terrorist networks.“Journalists” who have defected from Cuba are revealing information on how these networks operate.
Claudia Gist

United States

#37 Jun 4, 2007
As an Ecuadorian, I know that Ecuador has suffered the horrendous influence of Fidel Castro for years. And now Chávez, with millions stolen from the Venezuelan people, is spreading his “populist” brand of Marxism to Ecuador, Bolivia, Nicaragua…

Through lies, manipulation, intimidation and violence, Castro and Chávez have not only promoted hate against the United States, but also material and moral depravation in their own countries and in other countries. They have advanced “socialist”(Marxist) ideas against free enterprise and in favor of state control, which have contributed and are contributing to corruption and poverty. Through lies, manipulation and millions of dollars (stolen from the Venezuelan people), Castro and Chávez have their minions, Rafael Correa and Evo Morales, as presidents of Ecuador and Bolivia. Both Correa and Morales are doing exactly what Castro and Chávez dictate to them to undermine democracy and promote Marxism (“socialismo del siglo XXI).

The only hope for Venezuela, Ecuador and Bolivia is to get rid of Castro and Chávez. While they are controlling the area, we can only expect more poverty, corruption and violence.
Claudia Gist

United States

#38 Jun 4, 2007
The “excellent” medical services in Cuba are a myth and so is the “excellence” of anything else in Cuba under Castro. New refugees in Florida, who make a living by cleaning buildings or mowing lawns, save all the money they can to send aspirins and basic medicines to their relatives in Cuba. Many Cubans in Cuba are surviving thanks to the charity of their relatives who have been able to escape. A Cuban doctor, Dr. Hilda Molina, explains how the health system in Cuba is used to serve political purposes only, that health statistics are politically controlled, that health “data”(lies) are provided for propaganda purposes… http://www.elcato.org/node/1570
Marco Antonio Verdesia

United States

#39 Jun 4, 2007
All the defenses for Chavez and Correa are coming from people who, by all indications, have little direct contact with people living in the countries we are talking about. Some of us have lived in and traveled the region, and I see a different picture than what is being touted by the socialist apologists on this blog.

Most of Latin America has been through the "socialist" movements time and again, with one or another dictator or junta declaring themselves to be the "saviors" of the various nations. Chavez, Correa, Morales, and Ortega are no different than those of the past, as a matter of fact, Ortega has come back to haunt Nicaragua again. I was in Nicaragua when the Sandinista revolution began, and what I saw was totally opposite of what I read in the papers when I came back to the U.S. I was there again in 1981 while the Sandinistas were in control. I saw how they controlled the press, television, businesses, and people. My business associate there would not talk to me openly until we were doing 50 mph in his car with the windows open in case the vehicle was bugged. His office certainly was, and he was required to hire a Sandinista political capo to observe the employees and the owner. He managed to stay in business only because he had no political views contrary to the Sandinistas. A reporter who visited Nicaragua reported that there were no Cubans in the country, but the Cuban accents were everywhere in places like airport security, special guard details, and political advisors; my associates government appointed observer was a Cuban. The phrase coined at the time was "we have traded one little devil for nine mean red ones," referring to the Sandinista Junta. When the Sandinistas were finally voted out of office, the celebrations were at all economic levels.

Castro has made a disciple out of Chavez and Venezuela's oil wealth is supporting both countries, as well as Chavez's "Revolución Bolivariana." I easily risk making the statement that Chavez bankrolled Morales in Bolivia, and Correa in Ecuador. He also financially backed Ollanta Humala in Peru, but the memory of the Sendero Luminoso and other movements was still too fresh in the minds of the Peruvians to buy into his bid for president of the country. With a year of living in Peru, I heard many accounts of the bloodthirsty nature of the Senderistas to know that this was not going to be a good thing for Peru, and indeed, one of the things that came out was that the faithful of Humalas party had prepared a list of those marked for execution upon election.

Correa is part and parcel to the conquest of Latin American by Chavez. Intimidation, threats, and closure of any entities that may constitute an "opposition" are commonplace now. The AGD did not invest one cent into "El Telegrafo, and when the stockholders came up with the capital to pay off the debts accrued, the AGD approved the transfer of the company back to the original owners. Now, Correa wants to silence El Telegrafo and use it as a medium of the "state." It is a pretext, no more, no less. Similar fates await television and radio media that fail to promote or who dare criticize Correa.

Correa also needs dedicated media that will further their propaganda needs, which include demonizing the Colombians and Peruvians. The initial target is Colombia, as Chavez and Correa have designs of taking control of the country. Ecuador and Venezuela provide refuge to Colombians claiming to be victims of the violence between FARC and the Government. Since both Ecuador and Colombia consider the FARC and ELN to be legitimate, they obviously side with the narco-terrorist elements. Within a year or two, they will have built up the necessary pretexts to call for an invasion of Colombia, using Colombian "refugees" and FARC/ELN elements in the country to carry out their conquest. Peru will be next.
Vangelist

Walnut Creek, CA

#40 Jun 4, 2007
Michelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's start with José María Velasco Ibarra who oversaw the "reforma agraria" (1964) which was a government attempt to steal from those who were successfull farmers and give it to those who voted for him. For some strange reason, this resulted in inflation and food shortages.
IGNORANCE IS BLISS FOR SOME!

Dr. José María Velasco Ibarra was one of Ecuador's greatest statesmen... President for 5 terms:

1.- Sept. 1, 1934 to May 20, 1935
2.- May 28, 1944 to March 30, 1946
3.- Sept. 1, 1952 to Aug. 31, 1956
4.- Sept. 1, 1960 to Nov. 7, 1961
5.- Sept. 1, 1968 to June 22, 1970

NOT president in 1964.. When a military junta instituted LAND REFORM. Sooo... your accusations of 'stealing land for votes' is WRONG.

Dr. Velasco was 'Liberal' as oposed to "Conservador' finally branding his politic with his own name 'Velasquismo'... Above all he is considered one of Ecuador's most ETHICAL political figures (so Scocialist might be implicit).

Next time you put some infromation... PLEASE do a search to see if you are REMOTELY within REASON before you trample on virtuous memories.
Michelle wrote:
<quoted text>
The latest (Lucio Gutiérrez & Alfredo Palacio), who were socialist friends of Castro and Chavez, and paved the way for Correa...BLAH... BLAH... BLAH
To call Gutierrez a SOCIALIST... is like calling Bush!t an Academic...LOL

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