Fluoride pioneer Grand Rapids rethinks safety of putting chemical in water

Will the city that became the first in the world to fluoridate its drinking water decide to discontinue use of the chemical?

[Cyclops Rex]

Flouride-treated water was successfully implemented by Nazi Germany on both prisoners of war and local villages, in order to render them docile, submissive and stupid.

I strongly suspect it is used for the very same reasons here.

To support this theory, I offer two strong pieces of circumstantial evidence.

First, in agreement with the post above, citing the increase in tooth decay despite the supposed added protection provided by flouridated water.

Secondly, and far more subtle, are the election results from this week.

Ionia county, which has over 50% of its community water supplies flouridated, has a population of over 60,000. Last Tuesday, a staggering 1705 people turned out to vote. This means, in THIS economy, with a plummeting Dollar and usurious increases in fuel costs, and the ever present threat of depression, 97 people out of every 100 found better things to do besides show up to vote on issues that will have a direct impact on their pocketbooks, and thus, their lives.

Meanwhile, 51 MILLION people in America voted for "American Idol" this week. By proportion, SIX TIMES more people voted for AI than for their own interests.

If that is not a sign of a stupid and docile population, I do not know what is...

These facts, coupled with our complacency over the shredding of our Constitution, the outsourcing of our entire manufacturing base (even our own military cannot function without supply lines from foreign countries, most notably China) and ever-increasing police state tactics employed by our government, make it apparent that flouridization is merely one of many tools for social control being used against us.

You are free, to do as we tell you...

[NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS]

The reason very few people turn out to vote for politicians is because it's a waste of time, besides a single persons vote doesn't really count anyway because it's all percentages. So no matter how many people vote in a state, if half of those people vote for one candidate and the other half vote for the other candidate it's still half. 50% is 50% whether 10,000 or 100,000 people vote.
They keep saying my vote counts, but it really doesn't. When was the last time a presidential candidate lost by 1 vote?

[Cyclops Rex]

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS wrote:

The reason very few people turn out to vote for politicians is because it's a waste of time, besides a single persons vote doesn't really count anyway because it's all percentages. So no matter how many people vote in a state, if half of those people vote for one candidate and the other half vote for the other candidate it's still half. 50% is 50% whether 10,000 or 100,000 people vote.
They keep saying my vote counts, but it really doesn't. When was the last time a presidential candidate lost by 1 vote?

Thanks for proving my point.

Apathy only benefits those who participate. Therefore it is in the best interests of those who would benefit from it to want to perpetuate it.

If more people voted in 2000, perhaps the Supreme Court would not have acted so nonchalantly about the Florida vote (which Gore won after the all of the votes were finally tallied). Knowing that the populus is totally flatlined in terms of political awareness made it easier for the Court to rule in favor of those who have a vested interest.

And here we are...

[Heyimhere]

I grew up and lived in Grand Rapids and it's suburbs most of my life and I never had a single cavity, never been sick a day in my life, and Have never had any problems with my bones or teeth. However I've also lived in 3 other States/Cities that don't floridate their water and you should see all the the people with rotted out teeth in those places. All this adverse effect hogwash is just that. Hogwash. Those talking it need to go brush their teeth and stop talking ----.

[magentaargyle]

nyscof wrote:

Grand Rapids & Michigan have high decay rates despite fluoridation
January 25, 1945, sodium fluoride was slowly poured into Grand Rapids, Michigan’s public water supply to prove that fluoridation reduces children’s tooth decay. Nearby Muskegon was left fluoridation-free as the experiment’s control city for comparison purposes.
The study failed; but early fluoridationists ignored this inconvenient truth.
Named a “demonstration project” so as not to alarm residents about what was actually occurring, the experiment was meant to last 15 years. After only five years, cavities went down in both Grand Rapids and Muskegon. So officials fluoridated Muskegon which scientifically nullified the study.(1)
Today Americans are fluoride overdosed, suffer from fluoride’s toxic effects while cavity rates rise.
"Grand Rapids has a moral obligation to stop fluoridation instead of glorifying it so as to protect all Americans," says lawyer Paul Beeber, President, New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation. "Grand Rapids current Mayor, who is also an ordained minister, should begin that process." says Beeber.
There are many errors in the Grand Rapids experiment.(2) When a firm of professional statisticians was employed to study the data published from the trial, they concluded: "the lack of sophistication shown in selecting the sample leads to complete bewilderment as to the precise effects or the extent of the effect of fluoridation" (De Stefano 1954).
The Grand Rapids experiment never proved fluoridation was effective and didn’t even look for adverse health effects. But that hasn’t stopped public officials and organized dentistry from saying it did. In fact, two monuments have been built in fluoridation’s honor in Grand Rapids. The first one crumbled and fell apart just as over-fluoridated children’s teeth tend to do.
So what’s happening today?
Grand Rapids children are showing high rates of tooth decay and fluoride overdose - dental fluorosis, white spotted, yellow, brown and/or pitted enamel.(3)
According to the Grand Rapids Press, one pediatric dentist said in 2007 “…we see children under the age of 2 with active decay…Rather than just a few cavities, we're seeing a lot of cavities. It's not unusual to see a child with 8 to 10 cavities." (4)
The state of Michigan is now 86% fluoridated and Detroit is 100% fluoridated.
A study shows that, although fluoridated tap water is the most consumed item, 83% of low-income Detroit African-American adults, 14-years-old and over, have severe tooth decay.(5) Almost all Detroit’s African-American 5-year-olds have cavities, most of them go unfilled.(6)
The Michigan Department of Community Health reports:(7)
Cavity rates in six to eight-year-olds are:
-- 75% for American Indian/Alaska Natives
-- 72% of Hispanics,
-- 57% of White non-Hispanic
-- 57% of Black non-Hispanic
-- 50% of Asians
“One in four (25%) Michigan third grade children have untreated dental decay.” Low income children have significantly higher rates of untreated dental decay.
Continued with References:
http://groups.google.com/group/Fluoridation-N...

Yeah, this flouridation thing might be a waste of our money--I've seen some recent studies that say it's really only helpful in developing countries where there is no dental care. Maybe the state should invest in some free or low cost dental clinics instead. The increae in cavities is probably the most prevalent among people who don't have health insurance, anyway.

[Josh Leo]

Have any of you seen the movie Doctor Strangelove?

PURITY OF ESSENCE is all I have to say. You all sound like General Ripper

[Hmmm]

Glad some are finally realizing what I've thought to be true for years...... Glad I have well water and can poke around and generally find a toothpaste without fluoride. It is though, by many, to be a toxic substance, I agree. Personally, I believe diet, oral hygiene and most importantly, genetics is the reason behind cavities or not..... We ingest enough toxins in our daily lives, why intentionally add more????

[An expert]

Read http://www.fluoride-journal.com/98-31-3/313-1... and you will find the status of fluoridation in Europe. Meanwhile also the world famous fluoridation in Basle, Switzerland, was stopped, because not effect could be proven dispite of all efforts of fluoridation promotors.
The scientific basis for this development was the work of the Austrian engineer, physicist and statistician Rudolf Ziegelbecker. His scientific analyses cover also Grand Rapids and all other basic fluoridation experiments. And the final proof for ineffectiveness of fluoridation is the following: Nowhere, where fluoridation was stopped, dental caries has encreased. Even the opposite was the case. If such an encrease would have occurred, promotors would have spread this fact all over the world. Fluoride is no essential trace element.

[Tara]

thank-you for posting that, I dont see how what you said and your stance on the issue of fluridation in water DOES NOT clearly MAKE SENSE.
There needs to be more people like you and people who are waking the hell up!!! this is your life your body and you have other people making these life altering descisions without your imput. But is that by choice, should more people be voting and looking into many of the issues like this one. YES!!

just go along listen to your tube because everything it says is true

[ohenz]

its a very bad idea.the disadvantages outweigh the advantages

[northcalgreens]

aug 2005 ,11 unions representing over 7,000 EPA employees called for a national moratorium on water fluoridation.
Fluoride is regulated as a drug by the FDA and as a contaminant by the EPA.
we are being medicated without consent,against the neuremburg rules.
5% of the world still uses Fluoride,of those we account for 50%.
Fluoride makes our teeth harder/brittle as it does to our bones,which is why we have rampant arthritis and 7 times the rate of hip fractures as europe which is 98% fluoride free.
almost all of our foods are now sprayed with fluoride(PROFUME), so we now eat more than 3 times the amount of fluoride considered as a safe level in our water.
the fluoride we are being force fed is a toxic by product of the aluminum and fertilizer industries,it is scrubbed from the smokestacks useing a slurry off toxic chemicals.
Our fluoride is full of many substances that are unhealthy and toxic yet when they pour it into the water it magically becomes medicine?
END FLUORIDATION IN YOUR AREA_JOIN THE FIGHT !!!!

[jessethebuilder]

Cyclops Rex wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks for proving my point.
Apathy only benefits those who participate. Therefore it is in the best interests of those who would benefit from it to want to perpetuate it.
If more people voted in 2000, perhaps the Supreme Court would not have acted so nonchalantly about the Florida vote (which Gore won after the all of the votes were finally tallied). Knowing that the populus is totally flatlined in terms of political awareness made it easier for the Court to rule in favor of those who have a vested interest.
And here we are...

are you kidding me. al gore would have been better? oh my. seriously. nafta? global warming? inventing the internet?

serbia? al gore pushed that war. al gore has lots of blood on his hands.

[Kevin]

Funny they took the flouride out and did it quietly

[Red_Fist]

liberals wanted it, republicans didn't.

My dad was so against it, and was mainly because of added government control.

My liberal brother actually had the Doctor give his baby some kind of shot or something.

and all falls under the liberal theme of
"we know what you want".

[xmarine6t3 at aol]

i was born in 1940,drank well water in Belding Mi, went to Georgetown and Danville illinois as a child and i remember vividly going to my aunt Lida Delaats house at 1954 Martindale SE and where i normally would run into the house to to get a cold drink of water from the tap, was greeting with a funny taste, strange and bland, different. I never drank from that tap again, ever until that house was sold in 2005 when my Aunt Lida then 95 was too old to manage it.She died at 100 plus, so fluoridation didn't hurt her, or did it, would she have lived to 110? I had my share of cavities. When we returned to Michigan and Belding thankfully i drank well water until Belding fluoridated theirs, drank bottles water after that.
So the debate rages

[fartsmeller]

If people knew how our food was processed they wouldn't be worried about a little flouride. Most shallow wells in Michigan are just full of toxic goodies.