Colo. gay discrimination alleged over wedding cake

Jun 6, 2013 Full story: Denver Post 16,214

Engaged gay couple Dave Mullins, second from left, and Charlie Craig, left, were joined by a small group of supporters in Lakewood on Aug. 4, 2012 to protest and boycott the Masterpiece Cakeshop at 3355 S. Wadsworth Blvd. The couple went to the cake shop, and the owner turned the couple away saying he would not make them a rainbow-themed wedding ... (more)

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DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Level 2

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1314 Feb 6, 2014
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you.
How did Americans get SO stupid?
I have a theory. Since the 40's and through the 60's many children with sticky fingers were given a feather to play with and paint chips to eat.

And left alone for too long.
Xavier Breath

Brooklyn, NY

#1315 Feb 6, 2014
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
If you don't like that then maybe this is the wrong Country for you.
Maybe YOU don't understand what the amendment means. It's not absolute. I know that concept is difficult for you, but you really must try.

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/asse...
The undisputed facts show that Respondents ( the baker) discriminated against Complainants because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage, in violation of § 24-34-601(2), C.R.S. Moreover application of this law to Respondents (the baker) does not violate their right to free speech or unduly abridge their right to free exercise of religion. Accordingly, Complainants’ motion for summary judgment is GRANTED and Respondents’ motion for summary judgment is DENIED.
Xavier Breath

Brooklyn, NY

#1316 Feb 6, 2014
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>I have a theory. Since the 40's and through the 60's many children with sticky fingers were given a feather to play with and paint chips to eat.
And left alone for too long.
I blame Sarah Palin. Before she came along, stupid people knew to keep their mouths shut.
Xavier Breath

Brooklyn, NY

#1317 Feb 6, 2014
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
If it makes you feel so good to re-define marriage, make the government endorse your relationship, then force government to punish and marginalized those who don't believe or agree with you then by all means...
The fact remains, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; "
The fact remains YOU have NO IDEA what that means.
Xavier Breath

Brooklyn, NY

#1318 Feb 6, 2014
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are unwilling to be intellectually honest then I can't help you. You have your bent: to redefine marriage, and force others to believe that it's normal and if they don't punish them...
Mine is to allow freedom to all Americans even if I disagree with them.
ahahahahahahaha
ahahahahahahah
haahahahahah

Including freedom to ignore the law because you don't like it? It doesn't work that way.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Level 2

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1319 Feb 6, 2014
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
Baking a cake isn't part of ANYBODY'S religious practice, you flaming idiot.
actually it is in many culture But the only religion I know of that makes eating a cake part of the official religious ritual is the one featured in M*A*S*H; Korean Buddhism.

But I am sure there are others.

The point is this.

They are no different than observant jews who sell kosher foods. Both have a choice in the products they can choose to sell. But both may can use their religious views to deny selling those products to non believers.

If these bakers and florists have objections to legal weddings then they should stop doing weddings, just as kosher Jews don't sell Christmas Hams.
Xavier Breath

Brooklyn, NY

#1320 Feb 6, 2014
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you mean individual freedoms are sinking because of political correctness, then that is obvious.
“Look at the number of Christians and their Churches who have left behind your anti-gay campaign in just the last 10 years.” You mean the Christians who are kind and compassionate towards gays? That’s been going on far longer than just 10 years. That doesn’t mean they don’t still have the right to believe family is a husband and wife, and still support gays in loving their partners.
So why do you discriminate against the one who believes a wedding cake is for a husband and wife? Do you believe that’s “anti-gay”? Do you believe prosecuting him will make him change his mind and accept gays as being married?
The law isn't about the baker's beliefs. The law is about the baker's conduct.... i.e. cake making.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Level 2

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1321 Feb 6, 2014
OMG " But both may can use their religious views to deny selling those products to non believers."

my bad

should be "Both have a choice in the products they sell but no choice in denying a sale to a non believer."
Xavier Breath

Brooklyn, NY

#1322 Feb 6, 2014
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Cake baking is NOT part of ANYONE'S religious practice.

You are entitled to have your opinion, even if it is wrong. But tell me, what good is holding onto an opinion that is incorrect?

“ reality, what a concept”

Level 2

Since: Nov 07

this one

#1323 Feb 6, 2014
Respect71 wrote:
What’s funny is you seem to think it’s done and over with.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”
We've been over this with you before, you really should have taken better notes. No matter how it is written, it is not an absolute right. It has limits. If the state can prove that it serving a compelling interest by doing so, free exercise can be restricted or even prohibited. It is why the murderers of abortion providers have ended up in prison for their exercising their deeply held religious beliefs. Protecting the public from discriminatory acts, because no one deserves to be ambushed by bigots, a compelling state interest, whether you agree or not. He has no such right to refuse service, whether God agrees with him or not. You can quote the phrase all you want, but you've offered no rational reason why the God given right to be a bigot is one which should be constitutionally guaranteed. Why should he have the right to shove his beliefs down their throat like that, no matter how polite he was in doing so? They were asking for his service as a cake decorator, not his blessings.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Level 2

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1324 Feb 6, 2014
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
So I guess that means Kosher Delis will be required by law to serve Christmas Hams, right?

Like I said maybe all this snow is God's way of telling you about the slippery slope you're embracing.

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1327 Feb 7, 2014
DNF wrote:
<quoted text> And I have never said otherwise so what's your point?
<quoted text>I don't and neither does the law. The solution for them to insure they don't violate any other strange rules God gave them about cakes, they should simply stop doing wedding cakes.
<quoted text> Yes because using religion to justify it makes it anti gay and religious discrimination.
<quoted text> Of course I don't think it will change his mind anymore than such laws changed the ideas of the die hard racists of the 60's. The KKK is still alive and well and has spawned many white supremacist groups.
The thing is Dan, it doesn't matter what I think or you think. It's for the State to decide, just as it is for the State to decide if the death penalty is a deterrent for other crimes.
And the State has decided that what he did is similar to what people tried to do to blacks after desegregation.
“And I have never said otherwise so what's your point?” I just did and the point is Christians love you even though they believe a family is husband and wife.

“I don't and neither does the law. The solution for them to insure they don't violate any other strange rules God gave them about cakes, they should simply stop doing wedding cakes.” I would agree.

“Yes because using religion to justify it makes it anti gay and religious discrimination.” That’s irrational. We understand the world’s religions recognize marriage and between a husband and wife and yet gays get to be together (even redefining marriage) in places where Christianity is prevalent. If you see it as “ant gay” then you are sorely mistaken.

“Of course I don't think it will change his mind anymore than such laws changed the ideas of the die hard racists of the 60's. The KKK is still alive and well and has spawned many white supremacist groups.” Interesting yet you feel their rights should be removed even when what they do harm to no one?

“The thing is Dan, it doesn't matter what I think or you think. It's for the State to decide, just as it is for the State to decide if the death penalty is a deterrent for other crimes.” That’s why it’s not over…

“And the State has decided that what he did is similar to what people tried to do to blacks after desegregation.” RACE doesn’t = Sexual orientation where wedding cakes are concerned.

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1328 Feb 7, 2014
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>And this is a STATE Law so therefore a States' Rights issue just like the death penalty.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” and The Colorado State Constitution Article II, Section 4.

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1329 Feb 7, 2014
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
Baking a cake isn't part of ANYBODY'S religious practice, you flaming idiot.
It doesn’t have to be a “religious practice”. Would you deny religious reasons?
God specifically called me to do what I do and I don’t work for a religious organization. Now are you willing to prosecute me for working in a secular environment while I share my faith daily with my colleagues, customers and venders?

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1330 Feb 7, 2014
Fundies R Mental wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think a muslim or jewish or pagan business refusing service to fundie customers would not be a problem?
Of course you don't think that. You'd be outraged by such bigotry. But sick, xstain theocrats think jaysus said it's okay for them to act that way...the exact way these xstain fundies would never abide anyone else acting.
And what is happening is that the country, including non fundie Christians, is moving away from bigotry practicing fundies more and more with each passing year. Amen.
“So you think a muslim or jewish or pagan business refusing service to fundie customers would not be a problem?” It depends on what it is now doesn’t it?

You’re on your way!

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1331 Feb 7, 2014
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe YOU don't understand what the amendment means. It's not absolute. I know that concept is difficult for you, but you really must try.
https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/asse...
The undisputed facts show that Respondents ( the baker) discriminated against Complainants because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage, in violation of § 24-34-601(2), C.R.S. Moreover application of this law to Respondents (the baker) does not violate their right to free speech or unduly abridge their right to free exercise of religion. Accordingly, Complainants’ motion for summary judgment is GRANTED and Respondents’ motion for summary judgment is DENIED.
I never claimed it was, however, folks on here continue to claim I do over and over… Is that because you don’t understand our Constitution, and blurting out,“It's not absolute” as if it were magical, will change our Constitution. It does not.

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1332 Feb 7, 2014
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact remains YOU have NO IDEA what that means.
Removing other’s freedom to embolden your freedoms is not okay.

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1333 Feb 7, 2014
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
ahahahahahahaha
ahahahahahahah
haahahahahah
Including freedom to ignore the law because you don't like it? It doesn't work that way.
Removing other’s freedom to embolden your freedoms is not okay, and Un_Constitutional.

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1334 Feb 7, 2014
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
The law isn't about the baker's beliefs. The law is about the baker's conduct.... i.e. cake making.
Our Constitution is about our freedom to believe.“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#1335 Feb 7, 2014
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>We've been over this with you before, you really should have taken better notes. No matter how it is written, it is not an absolute right. It has limits. If the state can prove that it serving a compelling interest by doing so, free exercise can be restricted or even prohibited. It is why the murderers of abortion providers have ended up in prison for their exercising their deeply held religious beliefs. Protecting the public from discriminatory acts, because no one deserves to be ambushed by bigots, a compelling state interest, whether you agree or not. He has no such right to refuse service, whether God agrees with him or not. You can quote the phrase all you want, but you've offered no rational reason why the God given right to be a bigot is one which should be constitutionally guaranteed. Why should he have the right to shove his beliefs down their throat like that, no matter how polite he was in doing so? They were asking for his service as a cake decorator, not his blessings.
It's a wedding cake meant for a husband and wife... "Our Constitution is about our freedom to believe.“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”

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