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#442
Mar 12, 2013
 
Kawalski wrote:
<quoted text>If it is an elected government by the people (majority) then I see that as trust worthy. Logic over comes when use of a majority rules even if it is not in the first ruling. NO ONE PERSON CAN BE JUDGED AS BEING BETTER OR WORSE THAN ANY OTHER PERSON BY ONE PERSON!!! The same holds true for rules, laws, morals, and all of life. This is one of natures laws and whether you call it nature or GOD they are one in the same. If one can understand this then using the term God is perfectly fine. The term "Nature" works just as well. OMNIPOTENCE is not confined to God since it can not be confined by definition. If you are using God in place of nature then God is Omnipotent since nature is Omnipotent. ALL THINGS, ALL TIMES, ALL PLACES, AND... A L L!!!
In this manner religion and Darwinism become the same thing as religion represents God and Darwinism represents nature.
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#443
Mar 12, 2013
 
Kawalski wrote:
Quote from RESPECT71
"The question was,“What are the scientific odds of 1 planet to be able to support and cause life out of nothing?”
“Let us give the evolutionist the benefit of every consideration..."
You have left out the most formatale consideration of them all!!!
Life from one planet creating life on another.
Life from one planet moving to another.
Overall the odds are much greater once life has begun since life has the ability to spread life in many ways.
okay...

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#444
Mar 12, 2013
 
Kawalski wrote:
The word was FORMIDABLE GOOD GRIEF, I SUCK!!!
You're fine.

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

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#445
Mar 12, 2013
 

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Kawalski wrote:
<quoted text>If it is an elected government by the people (majority) then I see that as trust worthy. Logic over comes when use of a majority rules even if it is not in the first ruling. NO ONE PERSON CAN BE JUDGED AS BEING BETTER OR WORSE THAN ANY OTHER PERSON BY ONE PERSON!!! The same holds true for rules, laws, morals, and all of life. This is one of natures laws and whether you call it nature or GOD they are one in the same. If one can understand this then using the term God is perfectly fine. The term "Nature" works just as well. OMNIPOTENCE is not confined to God since it can not be confined by definition. If you are using God in place of nature then God is Omnipotent since nature is Omnipotent. ALL THINGS, ALL TIMES, ALL PLACES, AND... A L L!!!
In this manner religion and Darwinism become the same thing as religion represents God and Darwinism represents nature.
Interesting, Personally I don't see nature as being omnipotent. If nature was she would have lowered human numbers a long time ago. Sure she tries to with new diseases but we humans have out smarted her on this so far.That would not be possible if dealing with an omnipotent nature. IMO nature don't care one way or the other.She will just start again as she did after all the dinosaurs died out.

“I think therefore I...forgot!!”

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#447
Mar 13, 2013
 
Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
It is already being done in the Netherlands. That country is blowing the United States out of the water on every social factor you look at.
Yes, I am aware of this and I wonder how the USA has fallen so dramatically behind so many other countries, in so many areas, in such a short amount of time? Any ideas?

“I think therefore I...forgot!!”

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#448
Mar 13, 2013
 
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
okay...
I guess I jumped over the first part of what you said and was addressing the part about "Every consideration" being given.
So I was saying that the thing to consider the most is the possibility that there is life spread throughout the cosmos FROM a planet or planets that life started spontaneously. Or that God created or however life started on a planet in the first place.

My point is that I think more planets most likely developed life from planets that already had life then ones where life began on it's own. If you say God started life then to me that looks more like existing life creating life does it not? The only way God can be omnipotant is if God is simply nature which by definition is ALL THINGS!!!
Omnipotance pertains to only ONE. There can only be ONE everything!!! Make any sense?
reffef

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#449
Mar 14, 2013
 
youtube.com/watch... …… Excuses are Reasons
so I just Freezed Dried and thaw the Humans later after Transporting ten to safe ground

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#450
Mar 14, 2013
 
Kawalski wrote:
<quoted text>I guess I jumped over the first part of what you said and was addressing the part about "Every consideration" being given.
So I was saying that the thing to consider the most is the possibility that there is life spread throughout the cosmos FROM a planet or planets that life started spontaneously. Or that God created or however life started on a planet in the first place.
My point is that I think more planets most likely developed life from planets that already had life then ones where life began on it's own. If you say God started life then to me that looks more like existing life creating life does it not? The only way God can be omnipotant is if God is simply nature which by definition is ALL THINGS!!!
Omnipotance pertains to only ONE. There can only be ONE everything!!! Make any sense?
Somewhat… But that type of philosophy excludes relationship… Morals… Values… It seem to just be, in which case it seems very ambiguous with very little meaning.

“I think therefore I...forgot!!”

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#451
Mar 14, 2013
 
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
Somewhat… But that type of philosophy excludes relationship… Morals… Values… It seem to just be, in which case it seems very ambiguous with very little meaning.
Awww yes, but now comes the really good and even fun part!!!

First:

With what I said in mind we can converse better since we have found a common ground to start with. Semantics can be a obstacle so by you and I agreeing that God is Nature and Nature is God we can continue on without getting stuck there.

Second:

That simple understanding is the foundation for religion and science to grow together from. Just as it is the foundation for our discussion (Including Jammercolorado)

Is it not true that Jesus said something about being there when groups of three come together in his name? Something to that effect? Meaning that where three people come together to talk about him or God or nature he will be guiding the conversation in the correct direction. You know the Bible better than I do so maybe you can find this part I am talking about. Or maybe you know right away?

So, to answer your question:):) If the three of us or any three people can agree on a foundation then they can work from there to put together the proper guidance, morals, family values, and all of the original tools the Bible gave us before it was distorted. This most likely includes all of the other "Books" from other religions which, if true, allows a foundation for them all to come together also.

Some one, some where, some how is going to have to do this SOME TIME if the human race is to ever quit using religion by single people for personal gain. Most common is that of religious wars which is the most offensive misuse of religion.

With this in mind, instead of arguing over tiny pieces of religion or over religion as a whole, we can start talking about how, why, what, when, how, and soforth of GOD & NATURE in the 21st century. It is time to put together what we have learned in the past 2,000 years in the spirit that began this quest for knowledge:):)

Perhaps that can only be done with devine intervention? What do you guys say?

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

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#452
Mar 14, 2013
 
Kawalski wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, I am aware of this and I wonder how the USA has fallen so dramatically behind so many other countries, in so many areas, in such a short amount of time? Any ideas?
Number one reason IMO is greed at the top. The rich buy the laws that favor them getting richer at the expense of everything.

#2 religion.

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#453
Mar 14, 2013
 

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Kawalski wrote:
<quoted text>Awww yes, but now comes the really good and even fun part!!!
First:
With what I said in mind we can converse better since we have found a common ground to start with. Semantics can be a obstacle so by you and I agreeing that God is Nature and Nature is God we can continue on without getting stuck there.
Second:
That simple understanding is the foundation for religion and science to grow together from. Just as it is the foundation for our discussion (Including Jammercolorado)
Is it not true that Jesus said something about being there when groups of three come together in his name? Something to that effect? Meaning that where three people come together to talk about him or God or nature he will be guiding the conversation in the correct direction. You know the Bible better than I do so maybe you can find this part I am talking about. Or maybe you know right away?
So, to answer your question:):) If the three of us or any three people can agree on a foundation then they can work from there to put together the proper guidance, morals, family values, and all of the original tools the Bible gave us before it was distorted. This most likely includes all of the other "Books" from other religions which, if true, allows a foundation for them all to come together also.
Some one, some where, some how is going to have to do this SOME TIME if the human race is to ever quit using religion by single people for personal gain. Most common is that of religious wars which is the most offensive misuse of religion.
With this in mind, instead of arguing over tiny pieces of religion or over religion as a whole, we can start talking about how, why, what, when, how, and soforth of GOD & NATURE in the 21st century. It is time to put together what we have learned in the past 2,000 years in the spirit that began this quest for knowledge:):)
Perhaps that can only be done with devine intervention? What do you guys say?
First… the common ground is that we agree God is omnipotent not in that He is nature, but for the sake of argument I respect you view without agreeing.

Second… Matthew 18:20 says,“For where two or three gather in my name, there I am with them.” And in the case it was Jesus’ end statement to His disciples on how to deal with Sin among believers.

However, I would disagree that the three of us would find common ground on “proper guidance, morals,[and] family values,” because I believe the Bible is truth cover to cover and my “proper guidance, morals,[and] family values” come from the Bible.

You claim there are “original tools the Bible gave us before it was distorted.” I find, especially before I became a Christian that the largest offenders of Bible distortions are the people who are unconvinced there is a God, or unbelievers. As evidence, you made your statement above, and Jammercolo who so many times picks and chooses verses and removes them from context in his attempts the disprove the Bible, AND I know Christians do it as well to push their agendas… It’s the fall of man (or man’s nature) and no one has ever escaped sin except Jesus.

Man will never “quit using religion” for any selfish or non-selfish reason for the very reason that we are born to sin.

God was, is and always will be whether we talk about it or not, whether we believe or not, whether we agree or not, and whether we choose or not.

Maybe we can find common ground on morals and values but I have to be honest is saying I don’t understand where people who don’t believe in God find their moral compass.

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#454
Mar 14, 2013
 

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Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
Number one reason IMO is greed at the top. The rich buy the laws that favor them getting richer at the expense of everything.
#2 religion.
“Number one reason IMO is greed at the top. The rich buy the laws that favor them getting richer at the expense of everything.” Makes a great argument for government to GET OUT of the business of doing business, ie healthcare, energy, and banking. Then there would be no motivation for businesses to loby for laws, it would be a limited free market.

“#2 religion.”…

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

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#455
Mar 14, 2013
 
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
“Number one reason IMO is greed at the top. The rich buy the laws that favor them getting richer at the expense of everything.” Makes a great argument for government to GET OUT of the business of doing business, ie healthcare, energy, and banking. Then there would be no motivation for businesses to loby for laws, it would be a limited free market.
“#2 religion.”…
If government stayed out of business none of us would have healthcare energy would all only be in big cities most of the west would not have any water.The avg work week would be 80 hrs and 12 year olds would be making clothing in nasty sweet shops right here.

Most rivers would not have anything alive in them our air would be black No water treatment No sewer pipes most homes would need to dig a hole and use outhouses. No federal highway system, No internet telephone only in cities.

Ever heard of the Great Depression and stock market clash of 1929?

That all happened before the government got involved in business.

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#456
Mar 14, 2013
 

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Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
If government stayed out of business none of us would have healthcare energy would all only be in big cities most of the west would not have any water.The avg work week would be 80 hrs and 12 year olds would be making clothing in nasty sweet shops right here.
Most rivers would not have anything alive in them our air would be black No water treatment No sewer pipes most homes would need to dig a hole and use outhouses. No federal highway system, No internet telephone only in cities.
Ever heard of the Great Depression and stock market clash of 1929?
That all happened before the government got involved in business.
“If government stayed out of business none of us would have healthcare energy would all only be in big cities most of the west would not have any water.The avg work week would be 80 hrs and 12 year olds would be making clothing in nasty sweet shops right here.” You’re going to have to cite something that shows this to be true, because if that’s the case then why are there workers Unions especially NOW that there are more Unions for public workers? Just let the government run things right? The government is so FAIR about everything?

“Most rivers would not have anything alive in them our air would be black No water treatment No sewer pipes most homes would need to dig a hole and use outhouses. No federal highway system, No internet telephone only in cities.” So why do we need construction firms, telecomm corporations, steel and concrete producers?

“Ever heard of the Great Depression and stock market clash of 1929?” Yes. Ever heard of the the HUGE inflation rates of the 1970s recession in the early 80s the great recession of 2008… ALL of which government was involved intimately… And you’re still going to contend it’s a good thing?

‘That all happened before the government got involved in business.” And I showed you even MORE bad AFTER the government got into business… That’s only citing a few.

America is her people, not the government.

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

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#457
Mar 14, 2013
 
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
“If government stayed out of business none of us would have healthcare energy would all only be in big cities most of the west would not have any water.The avg work week would be 80 hrs and 12 year olds would be making clothing in nasty sweet shops right here.” You’re going to have to cite something that shows this to be true, because if that’s the case then why are there workers Unions especially NOW that there are more Unions for public workers? Just let the government run things right? The government is so FAIR about everything?
LOL like big business is fair.
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
“Most rivers would not have anything alive in them our air would be black No water treatment No sewer pipes most homes would need to dig a hole and use outhouses. No federal highway system, No internet telephone only in cities.” So why do we need construction firms, telecomm corporations, steel and concrete producers?
“Ever heard of the Great Depression and stock market clash of 1929?” Yes. Ever heard of the the HUGE inflation rates of the 1970s recession in the early 80s the great recession of 2008… ALL of which government was involved intimately… And you’re still going to contend it’s a good thing?
‘That all happened before the government got involved in business.” And I showed you even MORE bad AFTER the government got into business… That’s only citing a few.
America is her people, not the government.
It's because our government is NOT the people we have this problem.Our government is controlled by big business not "THE PEOPLE"!!!!!!!!!

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#458
Mar 14, 2013
 

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Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL like big business is fair.
<quoted text>
It's because our government is NOT the people we have this problem.Our government is controlled by big business not "THE PEOPLE"!!!!!!!!!
MUCH more fair than the government and very subjected to the consumer (the PEOPLE) and companies doomed to fail if they don’t provide good a good product or service at a fair price. AND profits are a good thing, it means the company has resources to sustain itself and provide returns to investors which includes retirement funds like 401ks and IRAs… Government is so power hungry they tell us high profits are bad… As a result the people elected a socialist president.

That’s because the people are letting government have too much power…

Liberal Left wing leadership has taken over government, as a result, the American people have less liberty and are subject to government at every turn…

Do you think I’m incorrect? Tell me how OBAMACARE provides liberty for every individual American?

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

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#459
Mar 15, 2013
 
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
MUCH more fair than the government and very subjected to the consumer (the PEOPLE) and companies doomed to fail if they don’t provide good a good product or service at a fair price. AND profits are a good thing, it means the company has resources to sustain itself and provide returns to investors which includes retirement funds like 401ks and IRAs… Government is so power hungry they tell us high profits are bad… As a result the people elected a socialist president.
That’s because the people are letting government have too much power…
Liberal Left wing leadership has taken over government, as a result, the American people have less liberty and are subject to government at every turn…
Do you think I’m incorrect? Tell me how OBAMACARE provides liberty for every individual American?
The Clinton years were good for everyone.The rich made money the middle class was making money and the jobs were being made.Even the poor gained some ground. We had a balanced federal budget and a budget surpluses in 1999, 2000 and in 2001.One year of Bush and it was all gone.
Why don't you tell me how denying a child with down syndrome medical care so insurance stock holders make more money provides liberty for every individual American?
A child born today in Cuba or Croatia has better odds of reaching adulthood then a child born in the United States the riches country in the world. Tell me how that provides liberty for every individual American?

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#460
Mar 18, 2013
 

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Jammercolo wrote:
<quoted text>
The Clinton years were good for everyone.The rich made money the middle class was making money and the jobs were being made.Even the poor gained some ground. We had a balanced federal budget and a budget surpluses in 1999, 2000 and in 2001.One year of Bush and it was all gone.
Why don't you tell me how denying a child with down syndrome medical care so insurance stock holders make more money provides liberty for every individual American?
A child born today in Cuba or Croatia has better odds of reaching adulthood then a child born in the United States the riches country in the world. Tell me how that provides liberty for every individual American?
You do recall the congress was republican right? Clinton was riding the Reagan wave and took credit for the economic prosperity… Clinton did raise taxes which slowed growth and he passed the Community Reinvestment Act which, as we all know, in the housing crash of 2008. Don’t forget Bush started the bailouts in 2008 and that WAS THE WRONG decision.

“Why don't you tell me how denying a child with down syndrome medical care so insurance stock holders make more money provides liberty for every individual American?” Because the parents of that child can CHOOSE the medical steps on their own… They can choose from the numerous charities, other medical organizations that can help their child, or even just go to emergency care and get treatment… Liberty allows choice… Obamacare will drastically reduce choice.

“A child born today in Cuba or Croatia has better odds of reaching adulthood then a child born in the United States the riches country in the world. Tell me how that provides liberty for every individual American?” You need to cite these statistics, because this statement seems false.

“I think therefore I...forgot!!”

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#461
Mar 18, 2013
 
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
You do recall the congress was republican right? Clinton was riding the Reagan wave and took credit for the economic prosperity… Clinton did raise taxes which slowed growth and he passed the Community Reinvestment Act which, as we all know, in the housing crash of 2008. Don’t forget Bush started the bailouts in 2008 and that WAS THE WRONG decision.
“Why don't you tell me how denying a child with down syndrome medical care so insurance stock holders make more money provides liberty for every individual American?” Because the parents of that child can CHOOSE the medical steps on their own… They can choose from the numerous charities, other medical organizations that can help their child, or even just go to emergency care and get treatment… Liberty allows choice… Obamacare will drastically reduce choice.
“A child born today in Cuba or Croatia has better odds of reaching adulthood then a child born in the United States the riches country in the world. Tell me how that provides liberty for every individual American?” You need to cite these statistics, because this statement seems false.
I hate taking sides but I am behind Jammer all the way on this one. I have been there and done that when it comes to health care. 1) Member of the Rocky Mountain Region Tourette's Syndrome association for 20 years (board of directors)
2) Diognosed with TS at 24 and NEVER allowed to obtain insurance.
3) I could go on forever with this as i worked for something like Obama care actively for over 30 years.

Clinton repaired the damage from the Reagon years. This is a no brainer if you were alive and watched it all happen. Reganomics was the beginning of our entire mess and continues to haunt us.

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#462
Mar 18, 2013
 

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Kawalski wrote:
<quoted text>I hate taking sides but I am behind Jammer all the way on this one. I have been there and done that when it comes to health care. 1) Member of the Rocky Mountain Region Tourette's Syndrome association for 20 years (board of directors)
2) Diognosed with TS at 24 and NEVER allowed to obtain insurance.
3) I could go on forever with this as i worked for something like Obama care actively for over 30 years.
Clinton repaired the damage from the Reagon years. This is a no brainer if you were alive and watched it all happen. Reganomics was the beginning of our entire mess and continues to haunt us.
Believe me when I say I have such compassion for you for not gaining insurance but the idea that GOVERNMENT can provide you better than American charitable organizations, or private industry when through out history government WASTE is the cause of our 16.7 trillion dollar debt. I have misplaced faith and if you believe OBAMACARE will solve your problem without removing liberties from you and other Americans then your line of thinking is very faulty.

Reagan turned around a very poor economy and reduced inflation faster than ANY economist could have EVER imagined… Now we must remember he was only the president and our system of government could have allowed so much more but didn’t because of the ideological differences within Congress. You can be very assured that WITHOUT Reagan a balanced budget would not have happened for Clinton.

There is a huge difference between you and I… I being a Constitutional American, one who believes in the sovereign individual “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” and you, the Liberal Left American, who believes GOVERNMENT is the ultimate force in causing equality, charity, and providing health care for all… That falls way outside the design of our founding.

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