Tizzy

Denver, CO

#10667 May 30, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Mutant Reich are too dysfunctional to learn from their elders......
You must be referring to Debbie Wasserman Schultz? Claire Mccaskill? Eric Holder?

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

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#10668 May 30, 2013
mmkedu wrote:
<quoted text>Said the DNC tool.
It is a fact about Reagan, one that you don't seem to like.

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

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#10669 May 30, 2013
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
History is what it is. You obviously prefer to revise just like with the current administration that you favor.
I'm not re-writing anything. Again, Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease in 1994. Did you see it that time? Five years after he left office and four years after he testified. From his testimony it seems he had selective memory loss.

"JUDGE HAROLD H. GREENE: Good morning. The witness from whom we will hear this morning is the former President of the United States, Ronald W. Reagan.

THE CLERK: Would you please state your full name and spell your last name for the record.

THE WITNESS: Ronald Reagan, R-e-a-g-a-n.

Direct Examination

By Mr. Beckler

General Recollection

Q. Now, just in a very general sense, Mr. President, I take it you have some recollection of the events that led up to what is now called, for lack of a better word, the Iran-contra affair or the Iran-contra event?

A. Yes. Did you --

Q. Yes. I was just asking if you had some general recollection about the event.

A. Yes. It was a covert action that was taken at my behest.

Q. Can you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what you understand - what you understood the Iranian initiative to be? This was the initiative that started - by the U.S. Government - in early 1986.

A.... There once was at the time of the Shah a very fine relationship between our two countries. With the Khomeini in office, that had gone by the boards. And so a delegation of ours - I believe it was all from the National Security Council - journeyed to that third country to meet with these people. That third country had advised that in their opinion these people were responsible and sincere in what they were seeking.

That third country that I have mentioned is Israel, and they did vouch for the individuals who had come to their country. Obviously, those individuals could not come on the errand that they were on unless it could be kept secret because I am quite sure they would have faced execution by the Government of Iran, had they been exposed.

Q. So, one of the things then that you always felt about this initiative both starting with the Israeli portion of it and then when it became a U.S. initiative that it was important to keep it secret; is that correct?

A. Yes, very much so.

Q. Later on as 1985 went on, do you recall getting some of your top advisers together -Secretary Weinberger and Secretary Shultz - and discussing in a little more depth this Israeli initiative to send weapons overseas to Iran?

A. Yes.

Q. Maybe you could tell the jury a little bit about what you recall about those meetings and the fact that there was disagreement and so on?

A.... I made the decision that there was one thing upon which we could base selling them this single order [of TOW antitank missiles]... if they would use their efforts to get our hostages freed....

If you want the disagreement that occurred between our people, some of our people said that this would - they didn't say it was trading for hostages 'cause it wasn't. My answer - they said it would be made to appear that way if it ever came to light. My answer to that was that if I had a child kidnapped and held for ransom, and if I knew of someone who had perhaps the ability to get that child back, it wouldn't be dealing with the kidnappers to ask that individual to do that. And it would be perfectly fitting for me to reward that individuals for doing this. So, that was my position with regard to what they were asking and what they were doing....

People Working on Project

Q. Did you at any time recall being informed by Admiral Poindexter as to who some of the people were that were working on this Iranian missile project, if you will?

A. The only name that I recall being involved out at that end of it was Colonel North.

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

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#10670 May 30, 2013
Q.... Do you recall being told that there were certain private individuals who were also working on that project under the coordination of Oliver North?

A. No, I don't. I wouldn't --

Q. Does the name General Secord mean anything to you at all?

A. Yes. I had heard that name and heard that he had as I understood it, that he had some kind of an aero business, a delivery business, and that he might have been involved with delivering some aid to the contras when it was legal to provide such aid.

Q. We will talk about the contras later. In other words, you remember more in the context of the contras, the freedom fighters, rather than with regard to the missiles, I take it?

A. That's right. Yes.

Q. Do you have any recollection as well in 1986 of Admiral Poindexter briefing you about the fact that there were going to be some Hawk missile spare parts sent to Iran under this continuing initiative?

A. The only thing that I am aware of, and I cannot remember any meeting on this or not, was I do have a memory of learning or hearing that the Israelis, prior to these other things, had sent some of their Hawk missiles to Iran evidently in that sale.

Q. Did you and Admiral Poindexter, Mr. President, discuss how the United States at that time in the early part of November 1986 should react to the disclosure about the trip to Iran, what position the U.S. should take?

A. Well --

Q. In terms of disclosure?

A. Well, there was never a time when I believed that we could endanger the people that we were dealing with. And to this day, I couldn't name them, and I don't know what might have taken what might have happened to them.

Q. Do you recall having any discussion with Admiral Poindexter about having him try to get people together to kind of reconstruct what had happened so that if the time came to make certain disclosure, you would have some kind of a story together?...

A. I don't recall. I don't recall that.

Q. Did there come a time at all when you and Admiral Poindexter met with other Administration officials or members - as well as members of Congress and try to relate to them what had gone on?

A. I don't recall anything having to do with the Congress in that sense.

Q. Do you recall in 1986 meeting at all with Mr. Meese and asking him if he can lend a hand in straightening out the recollections of various people?

A. No. My memory of Mr. Meese's participation was when, after all of that thing had broken, that he was the one who located a piece of paper in some office that indicated that there was additional money. And that was - his participation was as Attorney General in case there was something untoward that was waiting there to haunt us. And that was where I got the knowledge about the extra money, and that is the only thing that I remember about from him.

Casey Testimony to Congress

Q. Mr. President, do you recall that the late Mr. Casey had to go up there to Congress and testify on Nov. 21 about this meeting - about what he knew about these missile shipments?

A. I wasn't aware of that. No....

Q. Do you recall, Mr. President, then that Admiral Poindexter on that same morning, Friday, Nov. 21, that he himself met with members of the House Intelligence Committee and members of the Senate Intelligence Committee over in the White House? Do you recall discussing that with Admiral Poindexter?

A. No. But I have to point out that this continued saying of ''I don't recall,'' that so many meetings - and I have been told by statisticians that my average of meetings with people was about 80 a day for eight years - that I don't recall these meetings. And not because they weren't important, and I am sure that I dealt with things at the time.

Q. Now, did there come a time, Mr. President, in 1984 - early 1984 - when it looked like funds that Congress had provided for contra support were running out? Do you recall that time frame?

A. Yes.

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

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#10671 May 30, 2013
Instructions on Contra Aid

Q. Do you recall what your instructions were to your top people at that time as to what ought to be done about this?

A. Yes. My instructions were that whatever we did in trying to maintain the existence of the contras should be done within the law. I emphasized that at every time. And I knew that there were groups of citizens who were on the side of the contras and who were soliciting funds to be of help to the contras. And I told them that maybe some of these citizens, these people, wouldn't know who to contact or how to contact the proper people to deliver the aid that they had raised for them. And that I did not believe it was violating the law if our people who knew, and the answer to those questions, would tell them, inform them as to how they could make contact. But, again, I emphasized no solicitation.

Q. And is it fair to say, Mr. President, that the discussion at this meeting with regard to getting third country funding or funding from individuals was one that you wanted to keep secret; is that correct?

A..... Washington is a sieve. And I found in eight years it was virtually impossible to find out who was doing the leaking and shut them up. And so, I said that last line, and I was talking about if we ever get our hands on the people who are doing the leaking of this various secret information that - that we'd be hanging by our thumbs in front of the White House until we found out who did it.

Yes, I said this. I felt very strongly about this.

Attitude on Boland Amendment

Q. Was it your belief - what was your belief as to what the effect of the Boland Amendment [which prohibited Federal agencies from providing military aid, directly or indirectly, to the Nicaraguan rebels] was on you and Admiral Poindexter when you were in the White House back there in late '84?

A. Well, my answer to that is if that - if this was - the Boland Amendment was doing what I recall it was doing and shutting off aid to them, that my feeling was that it was a disaster.

Q. And what effect, if any, did that have on your efforts to seek third-country support or support from private individuals?

A. Well, I think by that time we were already - we had already taken action in letting people know that we thought that they ought to help the contras.

Q.... Do you recall having an opinion as to whether or not the N.S.C. was covered by the Boland Amendment?

A. I remember being told that there were certain levels of government or agencies and so forth that were not prohibited by the Boland Amendment, and I remember that. And this was in connection with my telling us that we must stay within the law and so forth. And I never challenged or questioned what I was told about that or something else because, not being a lawyer myself, but being surrounded by a number of them in government, I figured that I was hearing the truth when they told me that something could be done and still be exempt from the Boland Amendment.

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

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#10672 May 30, 2013
Q. Mr. President, I am going to show you a memorandum which was prepared for you in 1985. It concerns a report on a Central American trip that was made by General Vessey.

Could you explain to the members of the jury who General Vessey was?

A. Oh, dear. I could ask for help here. The name I know is very familiar. I am wondering if --

Q. This is in connection with a trip by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

A. Well, that - I don't - I don't think this was my military aide, but obviously he was in a position to do this if he was the Chief of Staff.

Well, this report by General Vessey apparently was to Secretary Weinberger, Secretary of Defense, and all....

Honduras and the United States have had a military thing in which we have used their country at their permission for the training of some of our forces in jungle warfare. And so it doesn't surprise me at all to - about communications there with General Vessey and talking about Honduras. We had frequent contact with them.

Assignment to Poindexter

Q. Now, one of the first assignments that Admiral Poindexter received from you was to make a trip down to Central America himself....

Do you recall at all what Admiral Poindexter reported to you, just in a very general sense, when he returned from Central America?

A. No.

Q. This would have been now in January of '86.

A. No. I couldn't bring that to mind with all of the meetings that we had and all of the things, the constant information we were getting. So, I couldn't specify particularly what that was.

Q. Do you recall any discussions that he may have had with you about the construction of an airstrip down there in Central America?

A. Well, I did hear - we had learned that there was a rather primitive lane in there in the jungle near the border of Costa Rica, and that was then being put into better shape as a usable airstrip.

North's Job at the White House

Q. Could you please describe to the jury what you know about Oliver North and what his job was when he was working the White House.

A.... It was my impression, not from any specific reports or anything, that in through all of this that he was communicating back and forth between on the need for the support of the contras and so forth.

Q. When you say ''communicating back and forth between,'' could you be a little more explicit for the jury? Even though you and I might know --

A. Yeah.

Q.-- maybe you can explain to the jury what you are referring to?

A. Well, between the contras and their situation and ourselves and the things that we must do for them....

You have to have people that can be available to make contact with the leaders of the contras and so forth, sometimes closer than just writing a letter. And it was my feeling and my understanding - I did not meet individually with him to any extent at all. But it was my understanding because his name would crop up in memos and so forth that that's what he was doing.

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

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#10673 May 30, 2013
Cross-Examination By Mr. Webb

False Testimony to Congress

Q. Let me ask you this question based on your role as Chief Executive of this nation, Sir. If the information that Robert McFarlane provided to Congress in 1985 was false, contained lies, and deceived and obstructed Congress, would it still be your belief that John Poindexter should readopt those false statements in responding to Congress on July 21, 1986?

A. Well, I simply - no, I did not have this information, but I have a great deal of confidence in the man who was quoted as sending these letters, McFarlane....

Q. I understand. But I am just asking you, as I understand it - am I correct, Mr. President, that the letter that you are looking at there from John Poindexter dated July 21, 1986, you, yourself, actually did not approve and authorize those letters at the time that they were sent; is that correct?

A. I have no recollection of doing so.

Q. O.K.

A. But that could be my memory. I don't remember.

Q.... My question to you is, Sir: If you knew that the previous information provided to Congress by Mr. McFarlane was false, would you authorize John Poindexter to reaffirm that false information in these letters?

A. No.

Swiss Bank Accounts

Q. As I understand, on direct examination, you related to some extent that your Attorney General Ed Meese on or about Nov. 24, 1986, after making some type of evaluation and inquiry into the Iranian arms sale initiative advised you that he had discovered that there was some Swiss bank accounts involved, and that money out of the Iran arms sales appeared to have gone in some way to assist the contras.

Do you recall that?

A. What I testified is that that's what was being published and carried on by the press. But to this day, all I know is that some sum of money over and above the $12.2 million purchase price appeared in a Swiss back account in which it was said that account had been used on another occasions to provide help to the contras.

And to this day, I still with all of the investigations that have been made, I still have never been given one iota of evidence as to who collected the price, who delivered the final delivery of the weapons, or what was -whether there was never more money in that Swiss account that had been diverted someplace else. I am still waiting to find those things out and have never found them out.

Q. And when the Attorney General told you about these residual proceeds, was that the first time that you knew about it?

A.... that is when I appointed a Tower Commission to see if they could find out where, what was the source of the other money, was any of it diverted. All I knew was the figure that was given me of the money that was in the separate bank account.

I had no knowledge then or now that there had been a diversion, and I never used the term. And all I knew was that there was some money that came from some place in another account, and that the appearance was that it might have been a part of the negotiated sale.

Q. At any time, Sir, while you were President, did you ever approve or give authority to John Poindexter to obstruct or impede any Congressional committee inquiry into events relating to the Iran-contra controversy?

A. No, I don't --

Q. And at any time did you ever approve or give authority to John Poindexter to make any false or misleading statements to any Congressional committee regarding events related to the Iran-contra controversy?

A. No. And I don't think any false statements were made.

Q. You are aware that the Boland Amendment became law; is that correct, Mr. President?

A. Yeah.

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

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#10674 May 30, 2013
Q. Once that happened and the ability of your Administration to continue to fund assistance to the contras for military and paramilitary activities, once that happened, you did not - am I correct, you never authorized the National Security Council, your National Security Council, to continue to aid the contras militarily and paramilitarily in the same way that the C.I.A. had done; is that correct?

A. Apparently so.

Recess until 9:45 A.M., Saturday, Feb. 17.

Q. Who told you that the allegations in the press about North being involved in assisting the contras was false or incorrect?

A. Well, here again, to try and remember such a thing in the position that I was in and with all that was going on, no. There were any number of people who could have provided that answer. It could have been Bill Casey, the late Bill Casey from C.I.A. It could have been Admiral Poindexter. It could have been some people from the Defense Department, or all of the people that were involved in some way and to some extent about what was going on and our trying to get the Congress to support us in that activity. But right now, for me to put my finger on who told me something, no.

Authorization to Aid Contras

Q. Mr. President, did you ever authorize Oliver North or the National Security Council to use Richard Secord or Albert Hakim to assist in providing financial and military support for the contras?

A. No. I had heard reports about them in connection with some of the private groups that were trying to reach the contras with aid and so forth. I knew very little about either one of them or - but I had heard their names connected with such things.

JUDGE HAROLD H. GREENE:... The letter from Mr. McFarlane apparently indicates that no effort has been made or will be made to provide military or paramilitary -support for military or paramilitary operations in Nicaragua. The Tower Commission report appears to indicate that Colonel North did make expenditures for contra military equipment, supplies, and so on.

Do you find that the two are consistent with each other, or if they are inconsistent, do you find that the second one brands the first one as a falsehood?

I think that is what he is trying to find out.

A. Well, I have to say there's - in the wording of all of this, possible there is a - it could be interpreted that other way. I had not because I am remembering my telling those same people to be helpful to private citizens who were trying to do something that the Congress of the United States refused to do and abandoning its responsibility.

Q. Do you remember that Mr. McFarlane, the man who sent the letter, has pled guilty in open court to withholding information from Congress in connection with that letter?

A. No, I was not aware of that.

Q. Now, at any time prior to November of 1986 while the Iranian initiative was going on, do you recall any conversation with your national security adviser, John Poindexter, in which he in any way hinted or suggested or in any way told you anything about these excess profits and the diversion to the contras?

A. There was never any such conversation because the only information we had was that there was money in excess over the twelve million two that had been deposited in a Swiss Bank account.... That this money that was in that account, to my knowledge, is - could very well be just the total amount that was ever in there.

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#10675 May 30, 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/23/us/excerpts...

You can read the complete word for word testimony he made there.

You get the idea. He clearly was in shape and had selective memory.

One thing is for sure, if Obama testified to Congress and used "I don't recall", "I don't remember" or "I wasn't aware of that" the Republicans would he calling for his head on a platter.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#10676 May 31, 2013
The IRS harassed conservative taxpayers and illegally leaked confidential taxpayer return data to allies in the media. Then they plead the fifth.

Let's put them behind bars.

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#10677 May 31, 2013
District9 wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02 /23/us/excerpts-from-reagan-s- testimony-on-the-iran-contra-a ffair.html?pagewanted=all& src=pm
You can read the complete word for word testimony he made there.
You get the idea. He clearly was in shape and had selective memory.
One thing is for sure, if Obama testified to Congress and used "I don't recall", "I don't remember" or "I wasn't aware of that" the Republicans would he calling for his head on a platter.
Do you believe a disease only becomes a disease when it is diagnosed?
Regardless, History is what it is, despite your ignorance.
This Reagan thing is a distraction from what the CURRENT administration is doing… The fact you try to justify the administration that you support with poor history show your mind is small and unwilling to acknowledge the facts as they stand right NOW in the present.
Now read the testimonies of fast and furious, Benghazi, IRS, and the AP issues and TRY to defend the poor administration you support. The fact is you can’t.

Americans deserve better.

Level 7

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#10678 May 31, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
The IRS harassed conservative taxpayers and illegally leaked confidential taxpayer return data to allies in the media. Then they plead the fifth.
Let's put them behind bars.
Let's stop indirectly rooting againest our own country......

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#10679 May 31, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Let's stop indirectly rooting againest our own country......
You point being, put them behind bars, correct?

Level 7

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#10680 May 31, 2013
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
You point being, put them behind bars, correct?
Don't let me interfere in your manufactured outrage....but, drop the illusion of patriotism......the rest of us, have transended the election......

Level 6

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#10681 May 31, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Don't let me interfere in your manufactured outrage....but, drop the illusion of patriotism......the rest of us, have transended the election......
Patriotism is vibrant and robust in our amazing Country and because of our constitution there will be natural revival and the failing liberal values will again die as they have throughout history.
Tizzyness

Denver, CO

#10683 May 31, 2013
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>
Patriotism is vibrant and robust in our amazing Country and because of our constitution there will be natural revival and the failing liberal values will again die as they have throughout history.
Totally, hundred percent, thank you, hallelujah amen ... and good riddance.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#10684 May 31, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
Let's stop indirectly rooting againest our own country......
We are a nation of laws, put criminals in jail, get them off the IRS payroll.

Dissent is patriotic.

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#10685 May 31, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
The IRS harassed conservative taxpayers and illegally leaked confidential taxpayer return data to allies in the media. Then they plead the fifth.
Let's put them behind bars.
"The IRS net for possibly political organizations caught some 300 applications. Of these, no more than a third were "conservative" or "tea party" or "right-wing." The rest were something else, including "liberal" and "left-wing." None of the so-called conservative group applications were denied. Some were delayed, deservedly so, but a group can function as a 501(c)(4) with an application pending, so it's hard to see how much damage a delay would do, if any."

So what is the problem? The IRS reviews every tax exempt application. You don't think they just take someone's word that they are tax exempt and rubber stamp their application? No they review every application.

“The (R)ich Party Lies!”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#10686 May 31, 2013
Respect71 wrote:
<quoted text>Do you believe a disease only becomes a disease when it is diagnosed?
Regardless, History is what it is, despite your ignorance.
This Reagan thing is a distraction from what the CURRENT administration is doing… The fact you try to justify the administration that you support with poor history show your mind is small and unwilling to acknowledge the facts as they stand right NOW in the present.
Now read the testimonies of fast and furious, Benghazi, IRS, and the AP issues and TRY to defend the poor administration you support. The fact is you can’t.
Americans deserve better.
Keep on believing that. He seemed to recall a lot of details about everything except for what might get him in trouble. Those are the facts and his own testimony shows that, its not "my poor history".

So tell me, if Obama said "I don't recall" or "I don't remember" while testifying would he get a pass?

Level 7

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#10687 May 31, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>We are a nation of laws, put criminals in jail, get them off the IRS payroll.
Dissent is patriotic.
Will we get to see all the investigation's of groups targeted for the last 20 years...or, just the one that work's for the Far Reich? When does the GOP stop their self-induced freefall?

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