German police say 10 killed, several injured, in school shootin...

Full story: Chicago Tribune

Police say a gunman dressed in a black combat uniform opened fire at a high school in southern Germany on Wednesday, killing at least 10 people and injuring others before fleeing the scene.

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Bryan

Chicago, IL

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#116
Mar 13, 2009
 
Bill K wrote:
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Be careful of the freedom notion because the freedom you have here is the freedom to conform. Guns may give you an illusion of something else, but is is just an illusion.
So none of us have freedom. we are all slaves to the federal government? That is probably true with the way the government currently works, but there was a time when the bill of rights and the American ideals of freedom meant something.

Now we only have the privledges granted by the governmant.
Bryan

Chicago, IL

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#117
Mar 13, 2009
 
Bill K wrote:
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No, and I have never made any claims for promoting being a good citizen (nor have I made any claims opposing being a good citizen). This is merely being sensible in this modern society at this time.
So if a politician could garuntee personal saftey and financial security if we only repealed the bill of rights and gave up our freedoms - this would be sensible for our modern society?

Thanks I think I understand the mindset of the liberal a little better.
Thomas

Winnenden, Germany

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#118
Mar 13, 2009
 
Bill K wrote:
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Why, you ask?(You've been spared having to read all the nonsense here.) Let me summarize the most common reasons: one, to prevent your wife and daughters from being raped, two, to stop people from breaking into your house and stealing your property, three, to defend yourself from an oppressive government (sort of Ruby-Ridge like).
Well, that's the way the americans think, and I'm fine with that I don't care. But honestly, in Germany you don't think like that. Non of my friends or my family (even my extended family) owns a gun. If people in Germany do own one, then just because they're in a shooting club or they're hunters, but not because of defending themselves or their family. That's just not the idea behind it(in Germany).
Nevertheless, I know what the idea of having a gun at home is about, but still I do not share this line of argumentation.
Bill K

Chicago, IL

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#119
Mar 13, 2009
 
Bryan wrote:
<quoted text>
So none of us have freedom. we are all slaves to the federal government? That is probably true with the way the government currently works, but there was a time when the bill of rights and the American ideals of freedom meant something.
Now we only have the privledges granted by the governmant.
You're like totally wrong. You are not a slave to the government, you are a largely controlled (although in a very indirect way) by the capitalist system by which the government is also controlled. The "slavery" notion is just the wrong paradigm for something far more ethereal.
Bill K

Chicago, IL

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#120
Mar 13, 2009
 
Bryan wrote:
<quoted text>
So if a politician could garuntee personal saftey and financial security if we only repealed the bill of rights and gave up our freedoms - this would be sensible for our modern society?
Thanks I think I understand the mindset of the liberal a little better.
Your mind is in looneyland. I tend to doubt there being any rational hope for your recovery soon.
Bryan

Chicago, IL

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#121
Mar 16, 2009
 
Bill K wrote:
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Your mind is in looneyland. I tend to doubt there being any rational hope for your recovery soon.
You are the one calling freedom an illusion. Ok I'll drink the cool aid and say ok ban guns. there are no societal issues just bad tools.

Now I bet you'll say that I am rational.
Bill K

Chicago, IL

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#122
Mar 16, 2009
 
Bryan wrote:
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You are the one calling freedom an illusion. Ok I'll drink the cool aid and say ok ban guns. there are no societal issues just bad tools.
Now I bet you'll say that I am rational.
You think conformity is freedom. You don't know even what you don't know.
Bryan

Chicago, IL

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#123
Mar 16, 2009
 
Bill K wrote:
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You think conformity is freedom. You don't know even what you don't know.
Actually having the ability to conform or not conform (as long as non-conformity doesn't endanger or hurt others) is freedom. Right now standing up for the 2nd amendment rights and opposing punitive progressive taxes is non-conformity (ie the 84% tax rate of the late 60s).

There is much more pressure to conform to a liberal view point than there is to a conservative or (gasp) a libertarian point of view.

Trust me my view point on firearms has been shaped by being exposed to the sport of shooting, hunting, as well as gun violence (a childhood friend was killed in a shooting). I have also read the past and current pending legislation on firearms as well as the VPC and Brady positions.

How was your view point about the 2nd amendment shaped by reading the Tribune,the VPC website and watching CNN?
Bill K

Chicago, IL

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#124
Mar 16, 2009
 
Bryan wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually having the ability to conform or not conform (as long as non-conformity doesn't endanger or hurt others) is freedom. Right now standing up for the 2nd amendment rights and opposing punitive progressive taxes is non-conformity (ie the 84% tax rate of the late 60s).
There is much more pressure to conform to a liberal view point than there is to a conservative or (gasp) a libertarian point of view.
Trust me my view point on firearms has been shaped by being exposed to the sport of shooting, hunting, as well as gun violence (a childhood friend was killed in a shooting). I have also read the past and current pending legislation on firearms as well as the VPC and Brady positions.
How was your view point about the 2nd amendment shaped by reading the Tribune,the VPC website and watching CNN?
In a large society like this there are always going to be multiple tendencies, often conflicting, and any individual can more or less choose the group with which he wants to align himself, and conform. He can conform to his heart's content and still consider himself a non-conformist. He can play the maverick game. And there will be plenty of people stupid enough to buy it. Nearly half the people that bothered to vote last year voted for that "maverick," John McCain.(Sorry, it's late and I'm too tired to finish the rest of the thought. Respond, and I may be better able to finish it tomorrow.)
Dylan

Fairfield, MT

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#125
Mar 18, 2009
 
he is crazy and he is like another hitler if he thinks its fun why don't we blow him up
Bill K

Chicago, IL

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#126
Mar 18, 2009
 
Bryan wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually having the ability to conform or not conform (as long as non-conformity doesn't endanger or hurt others) is freedom. Right now standing up for the 2nd amendment rights and opposing punitive progressive taxes is non-conformity (ie the 84% tax rate of the late 60s).
There is much more pressure to conform to a liberal view point than there is to a conservative or (gasp) a libertarian point of view.
Trust me my view point on firearms has been shaped by being exposed to the sport of shooting, hunting, as well as gun violence (a childhood friend was killed in a shooting). I have also read the past and current pending legislation on firearms as well as the VPC and Brady positions.
How was your view point about the 2nd amendment shaped by reading the Tribune,the VPC website and watching CNN?
I re-read what you wrote the other day and it seems you have simply driven your logic off a cliff. The subjective feel of the group actually determines the degree to which one's actions are conformity or not. For example, most inner-city youths are not violent criminals. However, the average non-violent joe is made to feel as a non-conformist by his rejection of common violent criminality.
Citizen

Rockford, IL

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#127
Mar 18, 2009
 
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
There are so many falsified stories about gun violence within city limits too. The administration tells us we are safe but the papers tell us otherwise. I think I believe our Lord Daily on this one.
Seriously though, my heart goes out to the families of those killed. What brings someone to do this? Also, This used to be an American phenomenon, now it seems to be happening all over the world. This is one of our trends I wish nobody picked up on.
In the sixties a man in Germany entered a school and killed several students with a flame thrower; he burned them to death. I forgot how it ended; he was probably killed. Google the Bartsch case in Germany; this guy killed several children over a period of time in a sadistic manner. This kind of thing has been going on. Violence was not started by Americans. Look what's happening right now in Iraq, Israel, look at what happened in Germany during the Nazi regime. Please, violence was not started by Americans.
Citizen

Rockford, IL

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#128
Mar 18, 2009
 
Bill K wrote:
<quoted text>
I re-read what you wrote the other day and it seems you have simply driven your logic off a cliff. The subjective feel of the group actually determines the degree to which one's actions are conformity or not. For example, most inner-city youths are not violent criminals. However, the average non-violent joe is made to feel as a non-conformist by his rejection of common violent criminality.
You are exactly right. A few years ago I met a woman form the inner city who had several sons. All of her sons were in jail; mostly on drug charges. She had one son who was about 17 at the time, still at home. This woman was telling me that she did not let her son go to school. When I asked her why she would not let her son go to school, she told me that he is being harassed and threatened by the other boys in school to join the gang and get involved in illegal activities. The stories she told me were harrowing. I felt very sorry for her; it seemed she and her son had no recourse.

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