Ukrainian guards worse than Nazis, survivor says

A survivor of the Sobibor death camp testified that Ukrainian guards in Nazi-occupied Poland were worse than the Nazis' infamous paramilitary SS as he recalled his experiences Tuesday at the trial of John Demjanjuk. Full Story
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Red

North Bay, Canada

#1 Dec 29, 2009
Most of these so-called "Ukrainian guards" from Trawnicki were "Ukrainian" --only because they came from Ukraine--but were not ethnic Ukrainians. They were mostly Volksdeutch, ethnic Germans who had for many generations, for centuries, lived in Ukraine as colonists.

Volksdeutsch were valued for their German racial "purity" and ethnicity, loyalty to Germany, and ability to speak eastern European languages of the victims, e.g. Ukrainian, Polish, Russian.

The Volksdeutsch' ability to speak German, made them valuable especially because Yiddish, which has many German roots words, could be understood by the Jewish victims, in particular. The Volksdeutsch could understand Yiddish spoken in Eastern Europe, including Ukraine, where many of them were recruited.

When the Volksdeutsch guards needed to communicate with the Jewish "kapos," who collaborated with them, the ability to speak German was, because of its similarity to Yiddish, and the Volksdeitsch familiarity with Yiddish, especially important for day-to-day operations at the murder camps.

Demjanjuk was an ethnic Ukrainian--not a Volksdeutch--therefor, that makes him less likely to have been a so-called "Ukrainian Guard."

In any case, there are no witnesses for the prosecution who can remember anyone like John Demjanjuk being at Sobibor, which in itself, says something.

As horrific as the crimes at Sobibor were, it should also be remembered that Sobibor is not on trial, but John Demjanjuk is, an so far there has been no valuable evidence that would incriminate him.

Also, John Demjanjukwas a Red Army soldier taken prisoner by the German Nazis and subjected to a fate as bad or worse than the Jews. It is a well documented fact that millions of Red Army prisoners were murdered by the Nazi Germans by extreme privation in open air concentration camps, as well as at death factories like Auwschwitz. Demjanjuk had been a prisoner at some of those camps and therefore is no less a victim that any of the other victims of Nazi Germany.

One can only wonder at the then mental state of mind of Nazi Germany's victims like John Demjanjuk, during those most inhumane an cruel ordeals.

Didn't Nazi Germany's psychopathic inhumanity and callousness make their victims mentally ill, and if so, does this diminish responsibility?
joe koza

Bath, UK

#3 Jan 1, 2010
It is a well attested FACT that ukrainians 'ethnically cleansed' areas of pre war eastern poland, as nazi death squads, and should be gassed, poisoned and put to death for the murder of many innocent men , women, and children that they brutally abused and murdered at this time, empowered by the nazi authorities!!!!!!!!!!
manos

Athens, Greece

#4 Jan 1, 2010
Red wrote:
Most of these so-called "Ukrainian guards" from Trawnicki were "Ukrainian" --only because they came from Ukraine--but were not ethnic Ukrainians. They were mostly Volksdeutch, ethnic Germans who had for many generations, for centuries, lived in Ukraine as colonists...
Where is the dragon? All fairy tales have one... Even now Ukrainian are known as Nazis supporters. I mean those who live in the west part of the country.
Red

Sudbury, Canada

#5 Feb 5, 2010
Racism is not the best way to understand the John Demjanjuk trial.

Almost all nations of Europe participated with the Nazi Germans in carrying out atrocities. For example, Fascist Italy was an ally of Nazi Germany. Spain sent troops to Russia to fight Bolsheviks. Romania participated in the war on Bolshevik Russia. The Netherlands had many volunteers to the Waffen SS. These are but a few examples.

Japan too was allied with the Nazi Germans.

Bolshevik Russia and Nazi Germany collaborated in the partition of Poland in 1939 to trigger WWII and the ensuing genocides.

Not everyone participated in "ethnic cleansing" so it is ridiculous to tar everybody with the same racist brush. Ethnic cleansing was routinely carried out by many ethnic groups in Europe, including Poles and Russians.

Decades of anti-Ukrainian Bolshevik Russian propaganda is still propaganda and not "facts."

Most of these so-called "Ukrainian guards" from Trawnicki were "Ukrainian" --only because they came from Ukraine--but were not ethnic Ukrainians. They were mostly Volksdeutch, ethnic Germans who had for many generations, for centuries, lived in Ukraine as colonists.

Volksdeutsch were valued for their German racial "purity" and ethnicity, loyalty to Germany, and ability to speak eastern European languages of the victims, e.g. Ukrainian, Polish, Russian.

The Volksdeutsch' ability to speak German, made them valuable especially because Yiddish, which has many German roots words, could be understood by the Jewish victims, in particular. The Volksdeutsch could understand Yiddish spoken in Eastern Europe, including Ukraine, where many of them were recruited.

When the Volksdeutsch guards needed to communicate with the Jewish "kapos," who collaborated with them, the ability to speak German was, because of its similarity to Yiddish, and the Volksdeitsch familiarity with Yiddish, especially important for day-to-day operations at the murder camps.

Most of the prisoners at Sobibor would not have known the real names or ethnicity of the guards at Sobibor.

As horrific as the crimes at Sobibor were, it should also be remembered that Sobibor is not on trial, but John Demjanjuk is, an so far there has been no valuable evidence that would incriminate him.

Also, John Demjanjuk was a Red Army soldier taken prisoner by the German Nazis and subjected to a fate just as bad, or worse, than the Jews. Slowly freezing and starving to death was not a pleasant way to be murdered.

It is a well documented fact that millions of Red Army prisoners were murdered by the Nazi Germans by extreme privation in open air concentration camps, as well as at death factories like Auwschwitz.

Demjanjuk had been a prisoner at some of those camps and therefore is no less a victim that any of the other victims of Nazi Germany.

One can only wonder at the then mental state of mind of Nazi Germany's victims, like John Demjanjuk, during those most inhumane an cruel ordeals.

Didn't Nazi Germany's psychopathic inhumanity and callousness make their victims mentally ill, and if so, did this diminish responsibility for what they were alleged to have done?

Some of the witnesses at this trial openly explain that they collaborated with the German SS to save their own lives. This included everything from escorting new arrivals, leading work details, to shaving hair, or polishing SS officers boots.

Why didn't they hold a sit down strike? The answer is obvious.

Why didn't the guards escape? The answer is obvious.

The German SS and Gestapo were highly intolerant of anyone who stood in their way or disobeyed their commands. Summary execution was what anyone who shirked "duty" or disobeyed orders could expect, whether administration, guards or prisoners.

Many persons, including the guards, at Sobibor had far fewer options or choices than the German prosecutors, who seem to have a cozy armchair perspective of Sobibor, would have anyone believe.
noodles

Zanesville, OH

#6 Feb 9, 2010
jews were just pissed because they couldnt shoot them and take their farms at will after august of 41
Comer

Louisville, KY

#9 Feb 17, 2010
Dresden looks to be the new party and hangout central for the neo-nazis! Wonder how much fun they can be when they fill the bars, and then closing time comes? Thank God, very few were hurt! I feel that Demjanjuk, having American Citizenship and also having worked in an auto factory in Chicago, USA, deserves a trial by jury of his peers, meaning that the jury is made up of fellow auto workers-US citizens, or the fellow persons he grew up with on the border of Poland in Ukraine, or fellow victims of Nazi Concentration Camps! Anyways, to me, no matter what way you frame it, there is always a jew looking to make money out of an ordeal one way or another! Don't know how they make money off this, but it is an embarrassment to the civilized world that Demjanjuk's civil rights have been completely trampled! From where I stand giving a people who set a murderer free, and murderred an innocent man, by the name of Jesus, after worshipping a golden calf in front of Mt Sinai, the power to convict or frame anyone as being guilty, is a big mistake! Again, I don't understand how the jews make money off of defaming Demjanjuk, and blaming him for something, that in many ways, within the boundaries of Ukraine Jews brought on themselves! Anyways, where as Jews must know Jesus to get to heaven, i.e. Christ died for all nations, Demjanjuk does also! If Demjanjuk is christian, whether innocent or guilty, he gets eternal life in heaven, whereas until jews come to know God through Jesus, they get eternal damnation! Thats that! Peace!
toyshop

Zanesville, OH

#10 Feb 18, 2010
jews have run out of old folks homes to raid in germany so now they pick on the forced labor from the eastern front jews=natures eternal victims
duke

Winnipeg, Canada

#12 Jan 8, 2011
joe koza wrote:
It is a well attested FACT that ukrainians 'ethnically cleansed' areas of pre war eastern poland, as nazi death squads, and should be gassed, poisoned and put to death for the murder of many innocent men , women, and children that they brutally abused and murdered at this time, empowered by the nazi authorities!!!!!!!!!!
maybe you should be put to death, gas poisoned, or shot! u dumb @uck!
the insurgent

Ada, OH

#14 Jan 10, 2011
if it was so bad why are there so many damn "survivors"

“Dimitri at the races in Russia”

Since: Jan 10

Loved everywhere

#15 Jan 10, 2011
Their will to survive was motivated to see some revenge.
How come Dumbjanko is still alive ?
Havenīt they thrown the key from his cell away yet ?
Most likely, UG gang might be pretty sad to see him still alive.
Larsal

Arlington, VA

#16 Feb 15, 2013
I'm sorry, Joe Koza, but since when is it a "well-known fact" that Ukrainians were the perpetrators of these crimes? If you actually studied your history instead of going along with popular emotion, you'd find that many of these "ethnically-cleansing " Ukrainians were actually forced to participate; they had no choice. Ukrainian history is full of oppression and Ukrainians were also killed in concentration camps. The deaths are extremely depressing and unfortunate, but declaring that all Ukrainians should be killed in the same way is childish and insensitive. Just as there were Ukrainians who murdered Jews, there were also Ukrainians who saved Jews. No society is perfect, and this is exemplified by the fact that Vladimir Lenin was a Jew.
Larsal

Arlington, VA

#17 Feb 15, 2013
Correction: Lenin was actually 25% Jewish. However, it just goes to show how twisted human morality can be. Wishing a cruel death on anyone is not only unfair; it doesn't resolve anything. The Holocaust was terrible, so why would you want to wish it on a whole other group of people, most of whom were innocent? Please learn your history before you make absurd revenge declarations.

“Dimitri at the races in Russia”

Since: Jan 10

Loved everywhere

#18 Feb 15, 2013
Correction:

Ukrainka guards were ruthless dogs, killing people just for fun.
Anonymous

Brewster, NY

#19 Feb 16, 2013
Pesky army wrote:
Correction:
Ukrainka guards were ruthless dogs, killing people just for fun.
Pesky crying about the Holocaust as always like a Brudny Zyd.

“Dimitri at the races in Russia”

Since: Jan 10

Loved everywhere

#21 Feb 16, 2013
I see, itīs time for Limpy to hit the road.

“Dimitri at the races in Russia”

Since: Jan 10

Loved everywhere

#23 Feb 16, 2013
If I remember correctly, Demjanko is regarded as Ukrainka national hero of late.
Certainly, he helped to kill many prisoners.
Some say, he had Polak roots in his family too.
Oliver Cromwell

Accrington, UK

#24 Feb 16, 2013
Small Town German Gorilla wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting how Pesky's grammar improved leaps & bounds here.
Total fraud you are.... Just pretending to type like a dumb foreigner.
...
..... Maybe these Ukrainians were getting revenge on Jews for that Jew Lazar Kaganovich creating the Holodomor genocide upon Ukrainians?
F*ck Jews!
Well that explains it then murdering Babies,you Nazi Pig.
James Bain

Toronto, Canada

#25 Apr 30, 2013
All you anonymous pricks are cowards. How come no names? Your countrymen were cowards during the war and I see the trait has been passed down. "F*ck Jews", now there's intelligence for you. Feeling a little picked on, are we? Your Hiwi forebears were just as involved in mass murder as the Einsatzkommando sent in behind "enemy" lines with the Heere (German Army). The documented proof is overwhelming. If you'd like to blame someone for the famine in the Ukraine, try Stalin and Kruschev (a Ukrainian himself, no?). I take great delight in the knowledge that my grandfather was under "orders" to not take any SS prisoners or their assorted bum-boys, namely the Bohunks and other assorted SS toadies. So, here's one back at ya, F*ck Ukrainians! Nope, I'm not a Jew, Scots through and through. It is humourous reading your shite, but a little tedious after a while. Have fun! Morons.
James Bain

Toronto, Canada

#26 Apr 30, 2013
Oliver Cromwell wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that explains it then murdering Babies,you Nazi Pig.
Thank-you Oliver. Thank-you. Nazi pigs are precisely what these animals are. Unfit for the title "human" at all. If I were in England right now , I'd buy you a pint (or pints), as many as you'd like. CFheers, friend.

“Dimitri at the races in Russia”

Since: Jan 10

Loved everywhere

#27 Apr 30, 2013
Somewhere, I read there are plenty of Jews in Etobicoke.
Are you sure you are one of those kilt wearing alcoholics ?

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