Climate change 'may displace up to 20...

Climate change 'may displace up to 200 million'

There are 483 comments on the CNN story from Jun 10, 2009, titled Climate change 'may displace up to 200 million'. In it, CNN reports that:

A new kind of refugee is on the rise. And by 2050, there could be as many as 200 million of them.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

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“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#1 Jun 12, 2009
This is what I have been trying to get across for years.

At 47, I will probably live long enough to see how the "haves" of the developed world will face the moral question of two billion people who will die horribly, by drought, starvation, disease and war because of GW. What part anthropogenic causes have played; whether this is an entirely natural warming cycle or human activities have accelerated climate change is beside the point. The equatorial belt where the overpopulated developing world nations are are going to see their already degraded environments fail catastrophically to support their numbers.
I do not want to take in more desperate developing-world poor, legal or not. America is becoming too crowded as it is. I don't believe it will be possible to artificially support tens of millions of destitute international climate refugees. As it is, there are "camps" all over the developing world that have been open for decades, with more being set up because the ones that exist are overwhelmed. These displaced persons, fleeing war, famine, poverty are often "stateless", meaning that they are held almost like prisoners. Not recognized by the authorities where they live, not able to even begin to salvage their lives.

These camps are hell, and for more and more displaced/fleeing people are not going to have anywhere to go and no way to go anywhere even if they had a place to go to. The article states that most climate refugees will be "internally displaced", and will migrate to the cities, adding to the squalid shanty towns around the world.

I am at a loss for what could be done.
hard hitter

United States

#2 Jun 14, 2009
Since when do we call people that migrate refugees instead of migrants. People have been displaced by changing weather since the begining of time. They are called MIGRANTS.
Common Senseless

Hometown, IL

#3 Jun 14, 2009
As long as those displaced people cast a vote,
pay taxes, and make political contributions they will always be welcomes in this country but not in the politicians neighborhoods. Who do you thinks going to payoff King Obamas massive debt spending that will still be around in 2050?

“dumbasses”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#4 Jun 14, 2009
LWsciencejunkie wrote:
This is what I have been trying to get across for years.
At 47, I will probably live long enough to see how the "haves" of the developed world will face the moral question of two billion people who will die horribly, by drought, starvation, disease and war because of GW. What part anthropogenic causes have played; whether this is an entirely natural warming cycle or human activities have accelerated climate change is beside the point. The equatorial belt where the overpopulated developing world nations are are going to see their already degraded environments fail catastrophically to support their numbers.
I do not want to take in more desperate developing-world poor, legal or not. America is becoming too crowded as it is. I don't believe it will be possible to artificially support tens of millions of destitute international climate refugees. As it is, there are "camps" all over the developing world that have been open for decades, with more being set up because the ones that exist are overwhelmed. These displaced persons, fleeing war, famine, poverty are often "stateless", meaning that they are held almost like prisoners. Not recognized by the authorities where they live, not able to even begin to salvage their lives.
These camps are hell, and for more and more displaced/fleeing people are not going to have anywhere to go and no way to go anywhere even if they had a place to go to. The article states that most climate refugees will be "internally displaced", and will migrate to the cities, adding to the squalid shanty towns around the world.
I am at a loss for what could be done.
What a dumbass!

“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#5 Jun 14, 2009
goober45 wrote:
<quoted text>What a dumbass!
WHAT a "goober"...;)

Tell me what you think about the issue.
Jim Naseum

United States

#6 Jun 14, 2009
And I hope most of them want to move into my town, because then the value of my house will rise tremendously and I can sell it for a sweet profit and move my a$$ the Hell outa here.
Jim Naseum

United States

#7 Jun 14, 2009
The human race is just another temporary species of animal on this planet, doomed to extinction at some point. It happened to many other animals (dinosaurs), it will happen to us.

You'd have to be brain dead not to realize that with the kind of impact the human species places on this planet, it is not sustainable by any stretch of the imagination. Unless, of course, we all went back to living in caves and eating nuts and berries. By a show of hands, who's up for that ?
JRS

Oak Creek, WI

#8 Jun 14, 2009
Jim Naseum wrote:
The human race is just another temporary species of animal on this planet, doomed to extinction at some point. It happened to many other animals (dinosaurs), it will happen to us.
You'd have to be brain dead not to realize that with the kind of impact the human species places on this planet, it is not sustainable by any stretch of the imagination. Unless, of course, we all went back to living in caves and eating nuts and berries. By a show of hands, who's up for that ?
Duh, hello, anyone home?

The humans have been feeding people on a scale never dreamed of by your imaginary fantasy nut and berries living in cave good old days nonsense.

Today's human is far more "sustainable" than any other generation that ever lived.

Duh, hello, anyone home?

“dumbasses”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#9 Jun 14, 2009
LWsciencejunkie wrote:
<quoted text>
WHAT a "goober"...;)
Tell me what you think about the issue.
Sorry about the dumbass remark.Climate change has happened since time began.Its a natural process,the climate cools and warms every so often.Not by much a degree or two nothing massive,just normal cycles.Al gore has scared everybody to death,he just seen a chance to make money and he has 100 million+so far.If i was you i would not lose any sleep over it.

“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#11 Jun 14, 2009
goober45 wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry about the dumbass remark.Climate change has happened since time began.Its a natural process,the climate cools and warms every so often.Not by much a degree or two nothing massive,just normal cycles.Al gore has scared everybody to death,he just seen a chance to make money and he has 100 million+so far.If i was you i would not lose any sleep over it.
The issue is the "accelerated" part of Accelerated GW.

Whether or not anthropogenic factors are accelerating this natural GW cycle (and I think anthropogenic factors are part of the UNnaturally fast pace of this trend) I don't think there's a hell of a lot that can be done given the realities of international politics and commerce.

Either a whole lot of people are going to die, or the developed world is going to have to do some or all of gifting the developing world with green energy technology, feeding climate refugees AND cutting back our own use of fossil fuels to the point where it hurts. I just don't see that happening any more than I see the developing world embracing emissions and population control.

There have been events in the Earth's history where extreme, abrupt climate change has been the result of natural causes. Along with the waxing and waning of solar cycles/super-cycles, those causes run from huge CO2 "burps" originating from ocean sediments, to volcanic eruptions, to asteroid impacts. Those events are at least part of what gave mankind the opportunity to evolve and dominate the planet.

The "A" part of AGW seems plausible. Athropogenic factors may indeed be the cause of that acceleration. It will be interesting to see how things shake out during this period of solar minimum.

“dumbasses”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#12 Jun 14, 2009
LWsciencejunkie wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue is the "accelerated" part of Accelerated GW.
Whether or not anthropogenic factors are accelerating this natural GW cycle (and I think anthropogenic factors are part of the UNnaturally fast pace of this trend) I don't think there's a hell of a lot that can be done given the realities of international politics and commerce.
Either a whole lot of people are going to die, or the developed world is going to have to do some or all of gifting the developing world with green energy technology, feeding climate refugees AND cutting back our own use of fossil fuels to the point where it hurts. I just don't see that happening any more than I see the developing world embracing emissions and population control.
There have been events in the Earth's history where extreme, abrupt climate change has been the result of natural causes. Along with the waxing and waning of solar cycles/super-cycles, those causes run from huge CO2 "burps" originating from ocean sediments, to volcanic eruptions, to asteroid impacts. Those events are at least part of what gave mankind the opportunity to evolve and dominate the planet.
The "A" part of AGW seems plausible. Athropogenic factors may indeed be the cause of that acceleration. It will be interesting to see how things shake out during this period of solar minimum.
Then don't you think al gore and all the rich should stop what they do?Buying those things to offset what they do?If they care so much about GW?

“dumbasses”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#13 Jun 14, 2009
And again its going to always happen.We can't stop it.

“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#14 Jun 14, 2009
goober45 wrote:
<quoted text>Then don't you think al gore and all the rich should stop what they do?Buying those things to offset what they do?If they care so much about GW?
Obviously; but then...were we really expecting a politician NOT to be hypocritical?

Sigh.

“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#15 Jun 14, 2009
goober45 wrote:
And again its going to always happen.We can't stop it.
Yes. Hopefully, GW will not happen so quickly that we can't adapt to it. We in the more northerly latitudes with smaller populations and more arable land stand the best chance for adaptation. The developing world that subsists in the equatorial belt will not. They will want to come to where we are. What then? They will fight a thousand bloody wars against each other, competing villages and tribes over what's left of land and water, will we intervene? We haven't done so in Rwanda, Darfur or PRC or Zimbabwe. They will demand that the developed world provide for their destitute climate refugees; but already "donor fatigue", worsening economic situations in the developed world and cynicism about where aid to developing nations actually ends up are all growing.

I don't know, do you?

“dumbasses”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#16 Jun 14, 2009
LWsciencejunkie wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously; but then...were we really expecting a politician NOT to be hypocritical?
Sigh.
Then what is your solution?Im all for helping save earth or anything else.But im not in a position to do so,i do what i can,recycle and what not.But if they change,how would help.They do more damage than the average person.

“dumbasses”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#17 Jun 14, 2009
But if they won't change i meant

“Evolve”

Since: Dec 07

GJ, CO

#18 Jun 14, 2009
goober45 wrote:
But if they won't change i meant
So neither of us know...maybe the doomsayers will be wrong in their worst predictions, and perhaps green technology will spread fast enough to make a difference in time.

I will be frank; I neither want to maintain those hundreds of millions of climate refugees, and I certainly do not want them moving into this country.

If a drastic, permanent drop in fertility levels could be achieved, perhaps those populations should be rewarded with more aid. Nations with responsible governments too?

I agree, we all must recycle, drive less, drive more economical cars, paint our roofs white, push our gov. for fully developing alternative energy sources from wind, geothermal, nuclear, and solar, but even if the entire developed world made every possible fossil fuel cut we possibly could...NOTHING is going to stop the developing world from doing whatever they want to. And what they want is to become a part of the developed world with everybody driving a car, air-conditioning their home, eating like the west does. And, as I said, the developing world's populations are enormous compared to the populations of the developed world.

It may turn out that anthropogenic factors- emissions from the developed world (us) are accelerating GW. However, I will refuse to do anything but drastically reduce future emissions, not destroy our nation because of a sense of justice.
Lost In Transition

United States

#19 Jun 14, 2009
How much do you think Obama would give Palau to house them?

“dumbasses”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#20 Jun 14, 2009
NOR WILL I.you got me confused?
Mea

Auckland, New Zealand

#21 Jun 15, 2009
Jim Naseum wrote:
The human race is just another temporary species of animal on this planet, doomed to extinction at some point. It happened to many other animals (dinosaurs), it will happen to us.
You'd have to be brain dead not to realize that with the kind of impact the human species places on this planet, it is not sustainable by any stretch of the imagination. Unless, of course, we all went back to living in caves and eating nuts and berries. By a show of hands, who's up for that ?
Yep.....2 billion is bad enough but 6,8 or nine billion and we have had it!

I wonder when politicians will be brave enough to adress the most pressing of all environmental issues, not the co2, not fossil fuel, but the simple fact that we need to get world population down to a size the world can sustain. Sustain by nature and not via a technology that inevitably is going to fail!

We are like yeast cells in a barrel of wine discussing the purpose of life all while they slowly get killed of by the waste product (alcohol):o)

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