Armstrong drops fight against USADA drug charges, puts Tour titles on line

Aug 23, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CBS Sports

Lance Armstrong said Thursday night he is finished fighting a barrage of drug charges from the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, putting his unprecedented string of seven Tour de France titles at risk along with his legacy as one of the greatest cyclists in history.

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My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

El Paso, TX

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#24
Aug 25, 2012
 
Regis Le cycliste wrote:
We always knew it, Lance's muliple victories were achieved the American way. "Cheating". Shame on him. Floyd Landis confirmed it. Greg Lemond was a worthy winner.
Interesting at how Richard Virenque was found doping when he was with the Festina Team and yet he was aloowed to keep all of his Polka-Dot jerseys fromn the TDF!

Funny how he was crying like a baby and saying, "I didn't take drugs" only to admit it later on.
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

El Paso, TX

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#25
Aug 25, 2012
 

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inheatwillyoucheat wrote:
<quoted text>
Why should congress be contacted again? This is a voluntary sport in which a competitor agrees abide the laws and rulings of the governing body.
I'd support a congressional actions if it led to the apprehension and conviction of illegal drug dealers(which is what the baseball investigation should've been). Where there is illegal doping there is illegal drug dealing, practicing medicine without a license and corruption. But congress or any other government body should NOT be governing private voluntary sports or challenging their rulings unless there is an actual civil rights violation.
If you cannot see the difference between the process conducted by the USADA and that of the US Justice system, then you are missing the point here entirely.

Some of us were here when the Floyd Landis case with USADA went public there in California and we were quickly able to see that the process provided by the USADA was a complete contradiction to that of the justice system that we have seen in place and that many of us may even have experienced ourselves.

I'm not taking sides as to whether or not Lance Armtsrong is guilty or not! But, I sure as hell know that his civil rights were violated and I know when a court process is substandard.

And I believe that when I posted the website above for anyone to use if they want tp contact their represenative(s), that I never told anyone what to do as it is the choice of everyone here. I take for granted that you are over the age of 21 years old and that you was quite able to think for yourself, so I really don't feel that I need to explain anything to you nor hold your hand for you, while you're trying to make a decision for yourself.

I made my choice all by myself simply because I don't like double standards nor do I like seeing a crooked system much less crooked people in place being paid by my tax dollars.

Cheers Everyone!
inheatwillyouche at

Bryn Mawr, PA

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#26
Aug 25, 2012
 

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My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
If you cannot see the difference between the process conducted by the USADA and that of the US Justice system, then you are missing the point here entirely.
Some of us were here when the Floyd Landis case with USADA went public there in California and we were quickly able to see that the process provided by the USADA was a complete contradiction to that of the justice system that we have seen in place and that many of us may even have experienced ourselves.
I'm not taking sides as to whether or not Lance Armtsrong is guilty or not! But, I sure as hell know that his civil rights were violated and I know when a court process is substandard.
And I believe that when I posted the website above for anyone to use if they want tp contact their represenative(s), that I never told anyone what to do as it is the choice of everyone here. I take for granted that you are over the age of 21 years old and that you was quite able to think for yourself, so I really don't feel that I need to explain anything to you nor hold your hand for you, while you're trying to make a decision for yourself.
I made my choice all by myself simply because I don't like double standards nor do I like seeing a crooked system much less crooked people in place being paid by my tax dollars.
Cheers Everyone!
The USADA might very well have a poor policy & record. But they govern private voluntary participation in sport. When you sign up to participate in these various events you sign/agree to the rules of these governing bodies. The USADA is a non profit non governmental agency http://www.usada.org/about .

If you don't like the rules or politics of these governing bodies you either try change or at least challenge them(which Lance had the oppurtunity to do) or you don't participate.

Lance isn't going to jail or getting a criminal record. If there were any legal mistakes or abuses I'm sure his lawyers would've seized upon them and then some. If he wanted to sue them for defamation the USADA would've been able to present their case in detail against Lance as part of their defense in a defamation suit. This is what he didn't want.
turtle

Huddersfield, UK

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#28
Aug 26, 2012
 

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My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
We observed a very questionable legal process during the USADA vs Floyd Landis trial there in California, which many lawyers came out criticising.
Now we have seen how USADA has utilized "Nazi Gestopo" tactics in getting what they wanted all along.
They just proved that they were more interested and willing to waste US Tax dollars in destroying Lance Armstrong then they ever have been interested in doing anything about doping in SPORTS.
Otherwise, why haven't they been attacking all of the other sports here in the United states as well!
Travis Tygart and Dick Pound made to quite up-fornt that they wanted Lance Armstrong totally destroyed and they got waht they wanted.
If you US cycling fans are really pissed off about this, then all you have to do is contact your US Congressmen and US Senators, while raising pure hell about how the USADA wasted all that money, while they never really accomplished anything in battling Illegel Doping!
Or are you just going to sit on your butts again and allow USADA to get away with this and then what will they do next!
mmmmmmm i fear that this is not a balanced and reasoned argument "how USADA has utilized "Nazi Gestopo" tactics " It is bizarre that some people are prepared to ignore the facts and believe the myth and gossip created by armstrong himself and his advisors. He had the opportunity to come before the USADA and demonstrate his innocence. He chose not to because he would have failed and the whole world would of seen all the evidence laid out in a easy, straight forward to understand manner. ie-this is when and this is how you did it lance. Please stop believing the Lance hype. I am as upset as anyone that Lance was doping, he was an inspiration to me in my own battles in life and i still thank him for giving me the motivation and desire to win them. But separate of that he cheated to win bike races. Its that simple, it is not a witch hunt, he cheated guys and girls. Accept it, deal with it and move on. He is still an amazing inspirational man, its just a shame he cheated to win bike races.

Since: Aug 12

Enfield, UK

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#29
Aug 26, 2012
 
all this discussed here! I found it to the point
http://www.doubletakedebate.com/athletics/lan...
the USADA seems on a witch hunt
Regis Le cycliste

Bize-minervois, France

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#30
Aug 26, 2012
 

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My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting at how Richard Virenque was found doping when he was with the Festina Team and yet he was aloowed to keep all of his Polka-Dot jerseys fromn the TDF!
Funny how he was crying like a baby and saying, "I didn't take drugs" only to admit it later on.
We do know of this in France. I never said Armstrong or Landis were the first dopers and they will not be the last. Greed/false pride rules many pro sports. Not just cycling. But! What to do?
christine

United States

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#31
Aug 26, 2012
 

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Pat wrote:
The USADA is a disgusting self-serving organisation staffed by people who's sole objective is to chop sportspeople down. I have no doubt whatsoever that USADA has acquired evidence by fair means or foul and have been well aware that they would win out in the end because they could fight longer than Lance ever could.
I watched hours and hours of Tour de France on TV over the past 12 years and I am convinced that Lance Armstrong is a true champion. A cancer survivor who succeeded at the highest level of one of the toughest sports in the world. There may well have been an instance (or two) of doping but that has NEVER been proved. Take comments by Armstrong's team mates with a grain of salt. They have much to gain by outing him, and who could believe anything Floyd Landis says for example. In the absence of real proof, stripping Lance of his titles is a travesty, and I very much doubt the USADA has the power to do that anyway. What sticks in my mind is that Lance has been drug tested more than any other athlete on the planet and publicly, at least, he has never failed. Now the authorities are making an issue about a so-called positive test in 2009 when Lance returned to the tour with nothing to prove.
One thing I do know. The Tour de France was exciting when Lance was racing and without him the tour has been a long bore.
PAT...you said everything I would have said...I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOUR POST MORE...SO DARN TRUE.....

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

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#32
Aug 26, 2012
 

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My best to Lance.

They hate him because he's exceptional. Down with USADA.
Gus

Vancouver, Canada

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#33
Aug 26, 2012
 
Chapeau LANCE!
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

United States

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#34
Aug 26, 2012
 

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inheatwillyoucheat wrote:
<quoted text>
The USADA might very well have a poor policy & record. But they govern private voluntary participation in sport. When you sign up to participate in these various events you sign/agree to the rules of these governing bodies. The USADA is a non profit non governmental agency http://www.usada.org/about .
If you don't like the rules or politics of these governing bodies you either try change or at least challenge them(which Lance had the oppurtunity to do) or you don't participate.
Lance isn't going to jail or getting a criminal record. If there were any legal mistakes or abuses I'm sure his lawyers would've seized upon them and then some. If he wanted to sue them for defamation the USADA would've been able to present their case in detail against Lance as part of their defense in a defamation suit. This is what he didn't want.
I have already read the USADA website back in 2006 right along with that of WADA and the UCI as well when several of us here had followed the Floyd Landis case in depth.

As to what USADA could have provided as evidence in a law suit we may never know, but you and I sure as hell do not know what they have or do not have, so don't go stating what you don't really know in the first place.

And as for the USADA not being a non-governing body agency, they do get US Tax Dollars from the US Government.

Seems that you need to do your home work a little better.

You certainly have shown that you have no idea on what took place during the Floyd landis doping case and just how screwed up that process was in comparason with the US Justice System.

Cheers

Since: Aug 12

Thailand

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#35
Aug 27, 2012
 

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1)The USADA does certainly try to pin down Armstrong by whatever means possible.
Technically, they should not be able to test Armstrong's urine and blood probes from the 90s, yet they do.
Technically, they should not make deals with witnesses, offering them exemption from punishment (e.g. doctors, team managers and other cyclists), yet they do.
Technically, they should not even have have jurisdiction in Europe, yet nobody else wants to dirt their hands on this, or contradict the USASA's claims, so they were 'given' jurisdiction... or rather, nobody else wants to have jurisdiction.

2)Armstrong, and all of his major competitors in the Tour de France were indeed cheaters, because they did take illegal substances such as EPO. Everyone knew (or suspected) about it, the cyclists, the managers, the coaches. Nobody talked about it, there was no sense of injustice.
Testimonies of retired cyclists confirm this.
Testimonies of other people involved confirm this.
Testing old blood samples (including Armstrongs) with newer test methods confirm this.
So in a way, nobody cheated, since everybody did the same right? I disagree, there have been a lot of young cyclists that gave up on competitive cycling because they were 'hinted' by their team managers that they need to dope to be successful. There is a possibility of negative long term effects when using EPO.

3)Why getting hung up on Armstrong when everybody cheated? It is a witch hunt indeed.
Because Armstrong is a symbol.
He battled cancer, he came back, he won 7 (I think) Tour de France titles. He was the hero of the sport, a symbol of what man can achieve through formidable will and effort. I do respect him for that.
However, now that it is common knowledge that the 'golden generation' of cyclists were cheaters, it all backfires on him. Many fans lost interest to the sport, sponsors bailed out. The sport wants to cleanse its image, clean their records and start fresh, and Armstrong has to pay the price. They need to take him down, his titles, his image, his credibility.
The USADA are merely doing the dirty job, with an hard-working Travis Tygart on the helm that tries to promote his career.
Other cyclists are simply not worth the effort.
Notice how they do want to strip Armstrong of his Tour titles, but they do not, however, want to crown the 2nd placed cyclists as champions... they do not want to start all over with this after all (!)

4)Armstrong is doing the right thing. Strategically, it is pointless to fight for a lost cause and get himself exposed.
That way there will still be a lot of people left that believe in him, just as there are a lot of people that believe wrestlers don't take steroids.

5)It is difficult to condemn Armstrong. He is definitely a fine athlete and he 'de facto' had to take EPO to keep up with the competition and accomplish his dreams and ambitions. He is also a good person. Nobody back then had the balls to expose the sport, and to be honest, if someone did, his career (and life) would be over.
Life can be harsh sometimes.
Athos

Bath, UK

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#36
Aug 27, 2012
 

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Greytips wrote:
1)The USADA does certainly try to pin down Armstrong by whatever means possible.
Technically, they should not be able to test Armstrong's urine and blood probes from the 90s, yet they do.
Technically, they should not make deals with witnesses, offering them exemption from punishment (e.g. doctors, team managers and other cyclists), yet they do.
Technically, they should not even have have jurisdiction in Europe, yet nobody else wants to dirt their hands on this, or contradict the USASA's claims, so they were 'given' jurisdiction... or rather, nobody else wants to have jurisdiction.
2)Armstrong, and all of his major competitors in the Tour de France were indeed cheaters, because they did take illegal substances such as EPO. Everyone knew (or suspected) about it, the cyclists, the managers, the coaches. Nobody talked about it, there was no sense of injustice.
Testimonies of retired cyclists confirm this.
Testimonies of other people involved confirm this.
Testing old blood samples (including Armstrongs) with newer test methods confirm this.
So in a way, nobody cheated, since everybody did the same right? I disagree, there have been a lot of young cyclists that gave up on competitive cycling because they were 'hinted' by their team managers that they need to dope to be successful. There is a possibility of negative long term effects when using EPO.
3)Why getting hung up on Armstrong when everybody cheated? It is a witch hunt indeed.
Because Armstrong is a symbol.
He battled cancer, he came back, he won 7 (I think) Tour de France titles. He was the hero of the sport, a symbol of what man can achieve through formidable will and effort. I do respect him for that.
However, now that it is common knowledge that the 'golden generation' of cyclists were cheaters, it all backfires on him. Many fans lost interest to the sport, sponsors bailed out. The sport wants to cleanse its image, clean their records and start fresh, and Armstrong has to pay the price. They need to take him down, his titles, his image, his credibility.
The USADA are merely doing the dirty job, with an hard-working Travis Tygart on the helm that tries to promote his career.
Other cyclists are simply not worth the effort.
Notice how they do want to strip Armstrong of his Tour titles, but they do not, however, want to crown the 2nd placed cyclists as champions... they do not want to start all over with this after all (!)
4)Armstrong is doing the right thing. Strategically, it is pointless to fight for a lost cause and get himself exposed.
That way there will still be a lot of people left that believe in him, just as there are a lot of people that believe wrestlers don't take steroids.
5)It is difficult to condemn Armstrong. He is definitely a fine athlete and he 'de facto' had to take EPO to keep up with the competition and accomplish his dreams and ambitions. He is also a good person. Nobody back then had the balls to expose the sport, and to be honest, if someone did, his career (and life) would be over.
Life can be harsh sometimes.
So, what all of that means. YOU believe he cheated, but that is ok because everyone else cheated. What a weird way of looking at life
I guess that he DID take something just to stay alive after cancer, I know I do. This would have been declared to race organizers. Did he take something else? Maybe, maybe not, one mistake of his was to get involved with doggy doctors
The TDF was getting a little boring, LA had massive team backing, this spoilt it somewhat, just look at the time gaps, minimal, now look at the last TDF and the present Tour of Spain, good riders at the head of the race, maybe at last the sport is getting itself together, I do hope so
I do wish that he had seen this thing through though. He has the money and the lawyers to PROVE his ‘innocence’
Maybe… just maybe……… I do hope not
Now, I am off to the USA with a bag full of prescription ‘drugs’ I hope I get them through!!! Back in 6 weeks

Since: Aug 12

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#37
Aug 27, 2012
 
Athos wrote:
<quoted text>So, what all of that means. YOU believe he cheated, but that is ok because everyone else cheated. What a weird way of looking at life
I did not say that 'it was ok' and it certainly is not 'what all of that means':)
Athos

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#38
Aug 27, 2012
 
Greytips wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not say that 'it was ok' and it certainly is not 'what all of that means':)
\you wrote "So in a way, nobody cheated, since everybody did the same right" Sounds the same to me. but I take your point.
Must get going now for NY, CA. CO
Have a great day

Since: Aug 12

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#39
Aug 27, 2012
 
Athos wrote:
<quoted text>\you wrote "So in a way, nobody cheated, since everybody did the same right" Sounds the same to me.
Which 2 words did I enter after that sentence?
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

El Paso, TX

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#40
Aug 27, 2012
 

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turtle wrote:
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mmmmmmm i fear that this is not a balanced and reasoned argument "how USADA has utilized "Nazi Gestopo" tactics " 1. It is bizarre that some people are prepared to ignore the facts and believe the myth and gossip created by armstrong himself and his advisors. 2. He had the opportunity to come before the USADA and demonstrate his innocence. 3. He chose not to because he would have failed and the whole world would of seen all the evidence laid out in a easy, straight forward to understand manner. ie-this is when and this is how you did it lance. 4. Please stop believing the Lance hype. I am as upset as anyone that Lance was doping, he was an inspiration to me in my own battles in life and i still thank him for giving me the motivation and desire to win them. 5. But separate of that he cheated to win bike races. Its that simple, it is not a witch hunt, he cheated guys and girls. Accept it, deal with it and move on. He is still an amazing inspirational man, its just a shame he cheated to win bike races.
Match the numbers from below with the writing above!

1. Why don't you show us where I have taken the side of Lance Armstrong and or that I have written anywhere here at Topix.com that I have written on whether or not I believe that Lance Armstrong did or did not cheat by using illegal drugs.

It seems that you have written here that you are prepared to believe that Lance Armstrong had cheated. So, would you kindly share your evidence with the rest of us here?

2. I'm not taking sides here, but if you had observed and read what publically came out of the USADA vs Floyd Landis case, you might have a little understanding as to why Lance Armstrong choose to do what he had done.

3. Since no one here really knows what would have happned, you are only guessing here as everyone else has done for a very long time. Or do you work there at USADA in Colorado Springs, Colorado?

4. Sorry but I have never listened to nor ever believed in "HYPE" as I try to review the evidence and then make an evaluation from that. But, since I have not seen any evidence that the USADA has, then I'm not able to say one way or the other about the guilt or innocence of another person. But, then you are not able to do that as well unless you have evidence, then please enlighten us all here.

5. Some of us have been here since the beginning of when the Floyd landis case appeared back in 2006 and all of us had aggreed that is a rider or athlete is proven to have cheated, then that individual should be dealt with. And at the beginning I really thought that a "2yr Ban" would be all right. But, since doping has continued and nothing really has been accolplished in derailing those who dope, I have come to the conclusion that a "Lifetime Ban" would be the better order of the day.

But, if we're going to do that, then we need to quit making deals with dopers and we need to find out who ALL is involved in that doping process from the rider/athlete to the sponsors. And we need to provide a JUST justice system to the athletes/riders as well.

It's alway funny on how people talk the talk until they find themselves in that psoition and then they're back peddaling like crazy.

Since: Aug 12

Samut Sakhon, Thailand

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#41
Aug 28, 2012
 

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My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
But, if we're going to do that, then we need to quit making deals with dopers and we need to find out who ALL is involved in that doping process from the rider/athlete to the sponsors. And we need to provide a JUST justice system to the athletes/riders as well.crazy.
In order to pin down Armstrong, they had to re-test his blood samples from the 90s, they had to interrogate his friends, family, doctors, managers, coaches, friends, teamates and other cyclists.
Nobody else is worth that effort. As I stated above, Armstrong is a symbol of the 'cheating generation' the sport tries to cleanse themselves from.
Just like law prosecutors strike deals with small criminals to catch big ones, USADA strikes deals with witnesses.
pedaler

Bagumbayan, Philippines

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#42
Aug 28, 2012
 

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i think its good USADA must personally handle all the cycling event globally.hahaha
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

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#43
Aug 29, 2012
 

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Greytips wrote:
<quoted text>
In order to pin down Armstrong, they had to re-test his blood samples from the 90s, they had to interrogate his friends, family, doctors, managers, coaches, friends, teamates and other cyclists.
Nobody else is worth that effort. As I stated above, Armstrong is a symbol of the 'cheating generation' the sport tries to cleanse themselves from.
Just like law prosecutors strike deals with small criminals to catch big ones, USADA strikes deals with witnesses.
The news media reported that USADA has done all that you stated above.

But, USADA has not provided one bit of evidence and so, you're only guessing at what you stated above.

Show us the evidence and then maybe people will agree with your theory!

It' quite evident that you really don't know anything about doping in cycling and have no idea of the double standards that have taken place in the past as there are several well known cyclists who were found doping and they were given far less punishments.

Travis Tygart was so frantic in trying to bust Lance Armstrong that during the USADA vs Floyd Landis case, he tried to bribe Floyd Landis with a very small suspension if Floyd would turn on Lance an= Floyd told Travis Tygart to take a hike.

Do not try comparing USADA with prosecutors who work their butts off in the US Justice System as that is quite degrading all of the prosecutors in the united States.

Since: Aug 12

Bangkok, Thailand

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#44
Aug 29, 2012
 

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My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
The news media reported that USADA has done all that you stated above.
But, USADA has not provided one bit of evidence and so, you're only guessing at what you stated above.
Show us the evidence and then maybe people will agree with your theory!
The USADA 'claims' it would bring the evidence in the following trials, yes. Do they lie? Maybe. I don't see why they would. Now that Armstrong refuses to participate, we will never know for sure, yes.
This is where I go by my own judgement.
It' quite evident that you really don't know anything about doping in cycling and have no idea of the double standards that have taken place in the past as there are several well known cyclists who were found doping and they were given far less punishments.
How is that evident to you?
I already stated that almost all competitive cyclists of Armstrongs generation were doping yet they are not worth the effort, implying that double standards are indeed present.
If anything is evident, it is that you don't read my posts thoroughly.
Travis Tygart was so frantic in trying to bust Lance Armstrong that during the USADA vs Floyd Landis case, he tried to bribe Floyd Landis with a very small suspension if Floyd would turn on Lance an= Floyd told Travis Tygart to take a hike.
Its called striking a deal, it is not a bribe. Landis is not worth the effort bringing him down, Armstrong is. Not saying I support these methods (this I also stated before)
Do not try comparing USADA with prosecutors who work their butts off in the US Justice System as that is quite degrading all of the prosecutors in the united States.
I am pretty sure some prosecutors strike deals of the same kind, too, yet it is not considered a bribe. I do not see how the comparison is not valid.

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