Armstrong drops fight against USADA d...

Armstrong drops fight against USADA drug charges, puts Tour titles on line

There are 402 comments on the CBS Sports story from Aug 23, 2012, titled Armstrong drops fight against USADA drug charges, puts Tour titles on line. In it, CBS Sports reports that:

Lance Armstrong said Thursday night he is finished fighting a barrage of drug charges from the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, putting his unprecedented string of seven Tour de France titles at risk along with his legacy as one of the greatest cyclists in history.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBS Sports.

My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

El Paso, TX

#68 Sep 4, 2012
Greytips wrote:
<quoted text>
So first you question the information provided in the wiki, now you say it is not relevant at all? I am saying if someone would try to change it, it would be reverted to its original state, because it does reflect the majority opinion.
If you ignore the information provided by media what other sources of information do you have?
<quoted text>
So arent you saying doping is indeed common practice in cycling?
I questioned one point in that whole wikipedia page that you provided the web site for.

Try reading and then understand what I write, but quit trying to put words into my mouth.

Yes, doping has been a very common practice among the dopers who have cheated the sport as many other athletes have been doing the same in just about every sport out there and it needs to stop considering that it's illegal and that it also affects the body so bad that there have been more than several people who have died from thje affects of doping.

If you have ever read the history of the Tour de France, thn you would know that doping has taken place there almost since the beginning of that race.
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

El Paso, TX

#69 Sep 4, 2012
Wang wrote:
<quoted text>
There she blows!!!
You are more full of hot air than a pod of whales. Must be that Texas water (Get it? Probably not).
Come to El Paso and find out for yourself since you seem to be so interested. In fact if you come, I'll provide you with a one hour session for free!

As for getting it, I have already gotten it six years ago, while you were never here then.

Since: Aug 12

Bangkok, Thailand

#71 Sep 5, 2012
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
I questioned one point in that whole wikipedia page that you provided the web site for.
Try reading and then understand what I write, but quit trying to put words into my mouth.
If you read our whole conversation again you will realize you were the one that does not read my posts thoroughly.
Yes, doping has been a very common practice among the dopers who have cheated the sport as many other athletes have been doing the same in just about every sport out there and it needs to stop considering that it's illegal and that it also affects the body so bad that there have been more than several people who have died from thje affects of doping.
If you have ever read the history of the Tour de France, thn you would know that doping has taken place there almost since the beginning of that race.
LOL
Are you serious?
Am I not the one that provided you the link to the doping history of the tour de france, the link which truthfulness you questioned?
But anyway, since you do (now) agree doping is common practice, do you think Armstrong did not dope?
Or do you think Armstrong 'might' have doped but you disagree with the methods used to pin him down?
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

El Paso, TX

#72 Sep 5, 2012
Greytips wrote:
<quoted text>
If you read our whole conversation again you will realize you were the one that does not read my posts thoroughly.
<quoted text>
LOL
Are you serious?
Am I not the one that provided you the link to the doping history of the tour de france, the link which truthfulness you questioned?
But anyway, since you do (now) agree doping is common practice, do you think Armstrong did not dope?
Or do you think Armstrong 'might' have doped but you disagree with the methods used to pin him down?
If you had bothered to read what I have written in these forums you would have found both answers to your two questions.
Gus

Vancouver, Canada

#74 Sep 5, 2012
...is WANG the famous ''WILL'' from the past Floyd forum?

Since: Aug 12

Bangkok, Thailand

#75 Sep 5, 2012
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
If you had bothered to read what I have written in these forums you would have found both answers to your two questions.
Please enlighten me.
Regis Le cycliste

Agde, France

#76 Sep 5, 2012
Perhaps real sports cyclists have woken up. Winning through cheating is no longer acceptable. Compertition is brilliant, cheating is not!!
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#77 Sep 5, 2012
Regis thats what was said when Armstrong was winning as no positive tests and as I have posted elsewhere on here the Olympics had 4 positive tests!
Clean Sport or clever cheaters? The DR in charge of testing said they were so far behind the PED users it was a joke.
Cycling uses the same tests.
Scott

Oakley, CA

#78 Sep 5, 2012
Laurent wrote:
It is big day for the sport, lance is back to the start line he do not even get the courage like man to confess ,shame on him ,what story he will tell to his 5 kids later ," i was innocent they r w wrong ??? Prison r full of innocent poeple ...
The USADA is on a witch hunt... The Feds didn't charge him with any wrong doing. If you pass the drug tests just let it go.
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

El Paso, TX

#79 Sep 5, 2012
Gus wrote:
...is WANG the famous ''WILL'' from the past Floyd forum?
Oh Gus, I had already figured that possibilty out a while back. Just sounds too much alike. Like two turds in a pod!
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

El Paso, TX

#80 Sep 5, 2012
Greytips wrote:
<quoted text>
Please enlighten me.
You don't get it that easy.

Do your homework and re-read what I have written.
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

El Paso, TX

#81 Sep 5, 2012
From reading the various cycling forums during the London Olympic games I found that many of the more knowledgeable cyclists are very concerned about a new group of cyclists who may have begun doping and with methods that may be covering the doping up from the drug tersts.

If that really is the case, then we're going to have to wait and see what transpires from that situation.

The biggest problem that I have obsered throughout all of thise affair is that in most cases only the ride(s) have been caught and punished. Mabey one or two staff members of the same team, but not much else.

Whose the drug suppilyer?
What new drugs are currently being used?
What masking methods are there now?
Who or what officials are involved in notifying the teams/riders of coming doping controls?
What method(s) of transprts are they using for the drugs?
Who lese is involved?

If WADA, USADA etc, are responsible for fighting against doping in sports, then why are they not doing the ame in all other sports?

Why aren't they catching everyone that is involved here in doping?

Since: Aug 12

Thailand

#82 Sep 6, 2012
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't get it that easy.
Do your homework and re-read what I have written.
Mad?

Since: Aug 12

Thailand

#83 Sep 6, 2012
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
If WADA, USADA etc, are responsible for fighting against doping in sports, then why are they not doing the ame in all other sports?
Why aren't they catching everyone that is involved here in doping?
They try. Funds are limited. They go for the athletes with the most fame in order to promote themselves. They pick big targets (and Armstrong is pretty big) so people don't start questioning why they exist.
It is nearly impossible to 'catch everyone', considering they have to strike deals to get the information in the first place.
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#84 Sep 6, 2012
The problem with striking deals as you have noted is that is not acceptable under WADC/WADA/IOC/ICU and every other associated organisation who sign up to the same agreement including USADA.

They have broken the rules themselves and whilst you can do this in Legal situations there is no flexibility within WADC.

Why do you think the US Government dropped the case against Armstrong?
Please also note the testimony taken under oath for the Federal case is not admissable for USADA as they appear to be suggesting as this evidence was binned along with all the other evidence and if they wish to have a Federal oath they need to open Legal one against Armstrong and not just attempt to associate themselves to the Federal Government which is also against the current regulations to prevent Government interference in their work!

If the means justifies the end just torture someone long enough and you will get the answer you want. Somewhat over the top as an example? I agree but start the ball rolling and who knows where you will end up!!
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

United States

#86 Sep 6, 2012
Greytips and GeeMan, you both bring in ghood points here. If you were in charge instead of USADA, do you think you could think of a way to help intice the riders in coming forth and telling everything?

Tahr's where the real problem lies.
GeeMan

Blackwood, UK

#87 Sep 7, 2012
El Paso my last post didnt load so if thereís a duplicate my apologies.

I would not have tried to entice them.
Why? because they have already exposed themselves through the Federal Investigators and the testimony was binned along with all the other evidence when the case was dropped which means it is now too diluted to rely on.

Would I have offered sweeteners to get them on board, also NO as itís not allowed in the WADC rules. Doing this open you up to having the case thrown out by CAS if/when it reach there by not following your own rules.

How would I move forward if I believed he was guilty would be VERY different to USADA and I can see not within everyoneís approval?

I would get everyone around the table and all on board with a common view and explain what is being said and why and if I canít get an admission at least get some caveat in the records questioning the Titles ONLY over the last 8 years of the investigation because that is the rules.

USADA is there to help keep sport fair and free from PED's and act when they believe wrong doing is present. Unfortunately that message is not being played out by them and if the message is the mantra you need to have the BEST tools at your disposal.

With this in mind I would then do something some people would find odd and possible not agree with but I would get Armstrong involved with USADA.
Why? The old saying of to catch a poacher employ a poacher is what they need, in my opinion.
Armstrong inside kicking out instead of outside kicking in will give USADA a higher profile and would send shock waves around the Sporting World because guilty or not he knows what goes on who is doing it how they do it and when.
Would Armstrong agree? why not as it will help his ego in a self vindication way and it would help his foundaion as well the fact he would have produce something to help them.

Any Sponsor/Team/Athlete with knowledge of PED's around them would go WOW it all new rules.
Armstrong has Standing, Power and Influence in Politic, Sport and Business and this would act as a catalyst for of these important faucets of Sport.

The news would move Anti-doping forward by years by doing nothing but bring in the right name and still play within their own rules.

Quite simply you donít need to win every battle to win a war you just need to win the right ones.

Currently 23 senators have asked for a judicial review of this case and into USADA as well questioning that they are in fact wasting public money and not working within the rules they are governed by.

Like I said he has Power and Influence and sometimes itís better to look at the big picture and act accordingly.

USADA has for reasons known to themselves believe they can operate across the same parameters as the Federal Investigation and go way back to US Postal days and they simply are not allowed. They also believe the statements by witnesses have a Legal standing and they donít as that case was dropped.

What do you think yourself El Paso?
Cyclingfan

San Francisco, CA

#88 Sep 7, 2012
I was the first one to say on this board that Lance doped five yrs ago but so did 90% of the pro cyclists. Lance did more for the sport of cylcing than anyone else. Even Alberto Contador doped. they say it is very easy to get away with it by using masking drugs and timing when the doping test takes place.
Gus

Vancouver, Canada

#89 Sep 7, 2012
Cyclingfan wrote:
I was the first one to say on this board that Lance doped five yrs ago but so did 90% of the pro cyclists. Lance did more for the sport of cylcing than anyone else. Even Alberto Contador doped. they say it is very easy to get away with it by using masking drugs and timing when the doping test takes place.
OK,now lay it all out,all your inside information,that everyone can READ!!!

Since: Aug 12

Bangkok, Thailand

#90 Sep 7, 2012
There have been reports of retired cyclists exposing the sport already.

They describe the situation as this:
Everybody knows doping is common practice, however nobody talks openly about it. It is hinted at best. If one does not dope, he does technically have no chance of winning. Its not even so much about cycling speed but the increased regeneration time. If one gets caught, tough luck, nobody is going to back him up (or talk bad about him though)
So, even if some cyclists go out and speak up, they could only speak for themselves and their own experiences with doping, they could talk about their teammates at best.

So it is very difficult and time consuming to get everyone to confess, especially the successful ones which people care about. Every cyclist knew what he was getting into when he went pro.

I think if usada did not use dirty methods nobody would ever get caught. They need to catch someone big to give the people the illusion the sport is clean (which I doubt it is).
So its either play dirty or stay out of the game.

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