Cycling Article Related to Dual diagn...

Cycling Article Related to Dual diagnosis & Dopping

Posted in the Floyd Landis Forum

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“I Love Life, People & Animals”

Since: Feb 07

El Paso, Texas

#1 Sep 26, 2007
Here is an interesting article that I found over at Velo News:

http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/12396....

This is why I explained a long while back that I believe that every rider who admits to dopping, should completely share everything with the UCI, USADA, and WADA.

Cheers

“I Love Life, People & Animals”

Since: Feb 07

El Paso, Texas

#2 Oct 2, 2007
I find it interesting that everyone here claims to be against dopping in cycling, yet no one seemed interested in reading and commenting on what one doctor had found out from cyclists who had doped.

In order to fight the problem of dopping in cycling, one has to determine what the problem is in the first place. That includes determining what drives an individual athelete to using illegal drugs.

Cheers Everyone
Jon

Salt Lake City, UT

#3 Oct 2, 2007
Interesting article. Problems:(1) I never used drugs until I used testosterone, then Mary Jane, ahhh...the gateway hypotheses....led me onward to narcotics. Don't buy it.(2) Should USADA force "dopers" to enroll in mental health programs? You think Floyd Landis needs mental health treatments after his suspension? True the USADA and WADA should not throw out the baby with the bathwater, but a nefarious organization like USADA who is more interested in winning cases than in establishing "truth" has no business, in my opinion, in mental health treatment programs. Tygart's case centered in character attacks on Floyd Landis, Dick Pound insulted Floyd Landis with outlandish comments, I think it would be better for USADA and WADA to work on their own mental health problems before imposing sanctions upon others even if they claim to have helpful benefits.
Jon

Salt Lake City, UT

#4 Oct 2, 2007
One more point on the mental health front: WADA and the USADA do not set a good example by having an ex-TdF champion who has an obvious paranoid delusional personality disorder testify in an arbitration hearing. This sends a clear message to athletes the world over that the USADA will resort to any tactic to discredit an athlete. Having a man testify who is obviously in need of mental health treatment himself is not a good way to establish good rapport with the cycling community. In order for WADA and USADA to establish credibility with athletes, WADA and USADA must have leadership who speak with fairness, "a man is innocent until proven guilty," and "we will investigate these allegations fairly until we find the truth," not idiotic statements like "Roid Floyd" "Nazi Frogmen," and other delusional statements that serve no useful purpose.
Zipster

Ellicott City, MD

#5 Oct 2, 2007
Jon wrote:
One more point on the mental health front: WADA and the USADA do not set a good example by having an ex-TdF champion who has an obvious paranoid delusional personality disorder testify in an arbitration hearing. This sends a clear message to athletes the world over that the USADA will resort to any tactic to discredit an athlete. Having a man testify who is obviously in need of mental health treatment himself is not a good way to establish good rapport with the cycling community. In order for WADA and USADA to establish credibility with athletes, WADA and USADA must have leadership who speak with fairness, "a man is innocent until proven guilty," and "we will investigate these allegations fairly until we find the truth," not idiotic statements like "Roid Floyd" "Nazi Frogmen," and other delusional statements that serve no useful purpose.
Jon - Please remind us all again just for the sake of clarity as to where you received your PhD in clinical pyschology from ??? Let me guess - from the same place you received your PhD in analytical chemistry or microbiology from right ???

Sheesh

Zipster

“crystelZENmud”

Since: Jan 07

Reality City

#6 Oct 3, 2007
Slaggzooop is back...

Ignore him (what's your a) diploma... b) penis size... c) donation to FL???)...

Good find MOeP, interesting points, Jon.

I was actually reading the hearing transcripts last night... I found it highly incriminating that USADA brought GL in to the scene, knowing in advance that Landis' attorneys would probably want to question him re: Armstrong and the 'case of the unpaid 5million bonus'... to the point where Lemond's attorney was in the room, well-prepped to instruct him not to answer questions... a manoeuvre that would have not EVER happened in civil court.("I'll get in my testimony, and then, when they try to cross: we'll shut down")

But maybe Floyd DOES need some assistance: after a judicial and press lynching, while innocent, could drive anyone a bit 'batty'...

ZENshort

“I Love Life, People & Animals”

Since: Feb 07

El Paso, Texas

#7 Oct 3, 2007
This doctor's intervew of cyclists who have doped just shows that atheletes are quite similar to the rest of mainstream society in the US and other countries. But, at least she has provided us with some info where I feel that the UCI and WADA have not.

Cheers

“I Love Life, People & Animals”

Since: Feb 07

El Paso, Texas

#8 Oct 3, 2007
Jon wrote:
Interesting article. Problems:(2) Should USADA force "dopers" to enroll in mental health programs?
In the United States, only a civil court can order a person into a mental health program. And the only way that a rider could really benefit from counseling would be by the cycling team retaining a qualified counselor on it's staff or a contracted team of counselors could follow the racing circuit.

A suspended rider could get involved in a theraputic program during their suspension period and than do follow up therapy when returning to cycling.

But, so far I haven't seen anything that shows where the UCI, WADA or the USADA addresses this area.

Cheers

“crystelZENmud”

Since: Jan 07

Reality City

#9 Oct 4, 2007
Of course not MOeP: helping Athletes to reform is NOT PART of WADA's 'goals'...

They make 'lip service' towards such a goal, but only by shocking the world (via compliant media sources), and creating a PANIC, can they harvest the funds to dole out to laboratories... to "feed the machine"

TESTS >> BUSTS >> PUBLICITY >> SCANDAL >> Broken Careers >> FUNDING >> LAB SUBSIDIES >> TESTS

"May the circle, be unbroken, BUY and BUY, lord, BUY and BUY..."

ZENkarma
Jon

Salt Lake City, UT

#10 Oct 4, 2007
Zipster wrote:
<quoted text>
Jon - Please remind us all again just for the sake of clarity as to where you received your PhD in clinical pyschology from ??? Let me guess - from the same place you received your PhD in analytical chemistry or microbiology from right ???
Sheesh
Zipster
Mmmmm. Yes, I keep forgetting. You rely upon others for your information, even post comments by others. The Tygarts and Pounds of the world rely on people like you, blind followers of the piper. Your pal OMJ stated, the method of application of testosterone effects the behavior of metabolites, patches and gels, for example. B.S. There are no exceptions in metabolite behavior that is application dependent, exogenous testosterone is exogenous testosterone, muscle depot injections, skin, oral, patches, creams, it makes no difference in metabolite behavior, your friend is a nutcase, just like you. And my Fifi is satisified with my penis size, in case you were wondering.:-)
Have a nice day!
Jon

“crystelZENmud”

Since: Jan 07

Reality City

#11 Oct 5, 2007
heh heh heh heh heh...

ZENraisingGlass
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

United States

#12 Nov 22, 2010
Well, I finally found this forum that I had started.

Let's see if anyone is interested now.
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

United States

#13 Nov 22, 2010
Here is the original article that I had found in VeloNews back then.
Wednesday’s Mailbag: Dr. Dawn and dopers, plys Mood’s demon
http://velonews.competitor.com/2007/06/mailba...
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

United States

#14 Nov 22, 2010
Wednesday’s Mailbag: Dr. Dawn and dopers, plys Mood’s demon
http://velonews.competitor.com/2007/06/mailba...

RKP: Friday Group Ride #21
http://redkiteprayer.com/ ?

BMC Medical Ethics: Current anti-doping policy: a critical appraisal

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6939/8/2

Team Physician’s Corner
http://www.udel.edu/PT/PT%20Clinical%20Servic...

“crystelZENmud”

Since: Jan 07

Reality City

#15 Nov 22, 2010
Jon wrote:
One more point on the mental health front: WADA and the USADA do not set a good example by having an ex-TdF champion who has an obvious paranoid delusional personality disorder testify in an arbitration hearing. This sends a clear message to athletes the world over that the USADA will resort to any tactic to discredit an athlete. Having a man testify who is obviously in need of mental health treatment himself is not a good way to establish good rapport with the cycling community. In order for WADA and USADA to establish credibility with athletes, WADA and USADA must have leadership who speak with fairness, "a man is innocent until proven guilty," and "we will investigate these allegations fairly until we find the truth," not idiotic statements like "Roid Floyd" "Nazi Frogmen," and other delusional statements that serve no useful purpose.
Jon's valid comments were good then, and good today.

As Devil's advocate, I'd say that 'once WADA lost Dick Pound, it found its way...'; they have or are working towards implemented 'lab complaint analysis panels'(my wording), and on another note, ICAS has last week elected John Dowling Coates AC of Australia as new President (replacing Mino Auletti...).

Even more interesting, is that Dick Pound LOST for a second time!

From 'all over the Press-radar-screen' the last time he ran, this time 'Tricky' Dick P (aka 453.52gr) stayed far away from the press, probably racked up ~100K miles trying to "persuade" (wink) his colleagues to vote for him?

But Coates won... and CAS did implement their no-conflicts-of-interest rule in late 2009 (October):
http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/document/3546...

So WADA-world and 'Justice' seem to be converging.

This is a good thing: yet as Floyd's 2010 'confession(s)' tainted memories of positions once held in good faith, so too, would any legitimate (note that word!) confession or analysis for Lance Armstrong that proved contentions long held against him...

But I'm sure Jon would agree with me... even Greg Lemond has to deal with the problems he brought upon himself, including his statement that no clean rider can beat a doped one: yet he beat Fignon, and Fignon admitted his extensive 'dopage' prior to his death in Aug 2010...

Yo, Jon... we miss your lucid writing, mate!

ZENdid
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas

United States

#16 Nov 22, 2010
Just as I predicted! One down, three to go.

Jon was the only one who had the courage to spaek up then and now.

“I Love Life, People & Animals”

Since: Feb 07

El Paso, Texas

#17 Nov 24, 2010
Yup, just as I had predicted.
SpeedyPete

Johannesburg, South Africa

#18 Nov 24, 2010
My Opinion_El Paso_TX wrote:
Yup, just as I had predicted.
Ah shit Harry! What I was fearing all the time has happened now.
You have gone completely bonkers , my mate. I mean, talking to yourself is bad, but talking to yourself on a forum is crazy.

You MUST go for professional help IMMEDIATELY. Please!!!!

“I Love Life, People & Animals”

Since: Feb 07

El Paso, Texas

#19 Nov 25, 2010
Two down, one to go!
SpeedyPete

Johannesburg, South Africa

#20 Nov 25, 2010
My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:
Jon was the only one who had the courage to spaek up then and now.
'arry, you are revering to something which was posted on 4 Oct 2007. Jon did not "spaek" then and now. He only "spaek" THEN.

I suggest you contact Alcoholics Anonymous without delay.

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