Holden workers asked to take pay cut

Holden workers have been asked to take a pay cut - up to $200 per week. A Holden worker leaves the plant. Full Story

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#1 Jun 14, 2013
Workers are being asked to take a pay cut? To do something you would not do if, there was any choice. Say, if you won lotto would you work on the assembly line in the Holden factory then?
The torment of work has now a reduced compensation, the profit for the individual (the worker), the difference between the suffering from all the actions of work and the reward received diminishes.
After the resources boom the cost of labour in all industries in Australia shot up to compete against the resources related sectors.
How far would the average Holden worker's pay have to drop against low wage Countries like China, India, Vietnam,....?
This paints a pretty bleak picture for manufacturing in Australia and it's sustainability.
Don't get me wrong it could possibly be done but first we need to thoroughly answer the question.
Is it worth it?
At the moment everybody including the Government and the Executives in Holden are hoping against hope for some unforeseen miracle to arrive on the doorstep and change the calculation in favour of profit without having to reduce wage costs further- it looks unlikely, impossible really.
We have to be brave and really ask the question, why? Then we can know why we are going down such a difficult path and how far down that path it still remains worthwhile doing.
Otherwise, we'll just be throwing good money after bad, only to shut Holden's factory down in the relatively near future anyway.
When all the money has been lost we may well rue having pursued a futile, costly gesture of subsidisation and worker impoverishment for a doomed industry. When the money could have been more usefully employed to address the problem of the economic down turn on a more sure and permanent basis.

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Since: Jul 12

wherever there's a mine

#2 Jun 14, 2013
Should ask the 2,400 Ford workers if they'd take a pay to keep their jobs. Or the 400 Alcoa workers. Is 18 to 24 months at a reduced $40k a year not better than $15k on the dole?

Why can Toyota make a profit locally & Ford & Holden can't? Why are Korean car companies profitable & their workers are paid more than Australian car workers.

When comparing buying a Hyundai to a Ford - I had 3 to 4 times more options under Ford (car, cloth, trim colour etc) and they all cost. They need to be lean & mean. Fewer models, fewer options - but designed for Australia. 90% of small cars sold in Australia are auto but that is not standard - scrap the manual gearbox & save money. CD stackers are old - install a mp3 mount & built in connector. Do you need 10 speakers or can you survive with 6? 4 models with 4 different engine sizes & 3 rim sizes is unnecessary.
Muslim Mom

Asquith, Australia

#3 Jun 14, 2013
Can tell Holden mother company General Motors very likely for shutting down Holden inside of Australia. This is thinking behind General Motors bringing Opel cars from Germany into Australia over past year. Now more and more Opel dealerships inside Sydney. When Australians more familiar with Opel brand, then Holden brand most likely will close.

Unless Whites agree with huge pay cuts, accepting of reality Whites inside of Australia not worth anymore than non-Whites outside of Australia, after all, only Whites Racists Australians thinking they smell better or something, no need of employing Whites Racists Australians for making cars.
woof

Santiago, Chile

#4 Jun 14, 2013
Muslim Mom wrote:
Can tell Holden mother company General Motors very likely for shutting down Holden inside of Australia. This is thinking behind General Motors bringing Opel cars from Germany into Australia over past year. Now more and more Opel dealerships inside Sydney. When Australians more familiar with Opel brand, then Holden brand most likely will close.
Unless Whites agree with huge pay cuts, accepting of reality Whites inside of Australia not worth anymore than non-Whites outside of Australia, after all, only Whites Racists Australians thinking they smell better or something, no need of employing Whites Racists Australians for making cars.
Another post from a guy that calls himself "EuroBoy" pretending to be a woman.
This is a close as he actually gets to a woman because no women want to date a loser that spends all his time talking about "anglo bogans" all day long and pretending to be a woman online all day every day.
sid

Brisbane, Australia

#5 Jun 14, 2013
Muslim Mom wrote:
Can tell Holden mother company General Motors very likely for shutting down Holden inside of Australia. This is thinking behind General Motors bringing Opel cars from Germany into Australia over past year. Now more and more Opel dealerships inside Sydney. When Australians more familiar with Opel brand, then Holden brand most likely will close.
Unless Whites agree with huge pay cuts, accepting of reality Whites inside of Australia not worth anymore than non-Whites outside of Australia, after all, only Whites Racists Australians thinking they smell better or something, no need of employing Whites Racists Australians for making cars.
What technology has ever come out of a muslim country, you momkies couldn't make a push bike let alone a car.
sid

Brisbane, Australia

#6 Jun 14, 2013
chefboy812 wrote:
Should ask the 2,400 Ford workers if they'd take a pay to keep their jobs. Or the 400 Alcoa workers. Is 18 to 24 months at a reduced $40k a year not better than $15k on the dole?
Why can Toyota make a profit locally & Ford & Holden can't? Why are Korean car companies profitable & their workers are paid more than Australian car workers.
When comparing buying a Hyundai to a Ford - I had 3 to 4 times more options under Ford (car, cloth, trim colour etc) and they all cost. They need to be lean & mean. Fewer models, fewer options - but designed for Australia. 90% of small cars sold in Australia are auto but that is not standard - scrap the manual gearbox & save money. CD stackers are old - install a mp3 mount & built in connector. Do you need 10 speakers or can you survive with 6? 4 models with 4 different engine sizes & 3 rim sizes is unnecessary.
Ford worker should take a pay cut as long as that includes everyone right up to the CEO taking the same percentage cut, we can't have the worker taking the hit and the management still doing not too bad thank you very much.
I agree with you, it's time to get back to basics and remember what a car is actually for, it used to be a means of getting from A to B without breaking down, now it's a bloody racing car with a built in entertainment centre in a lounge room. Too much gimmickry that adds nothing to the functionality of the car only to the price, with a bewildering array of electronic complication.
There has been a concerted focus on building cars that cannot be repaired by the average mechanic and have to be taken to the dealer to be repaired, thus creating an income for the dealers, but the average person can't afford the $100 plus per hour that dealers charge. If I want to take the kids to the beach for a swim do I need.
1. Radio controlled door locks.
2. Electric windows.
3. Electrically controlled heater functions.
4. Climate control.
5. Electrically controlled seat.
6. 6 Speed automatic gearbox the size of a mack truck gearbox.
7. Or a sequential shift manual gearbox.
8. Traction control.
9. Launch control.
10. Electronically controlled road stability.
11. Rear CCTV.
12. Proximity sensors.
13. 19 inch wheels and racing tyres.
14. A sound system designed to deafen you.
15. DVD
16. Electrically controlled mirrors.
17. An onboard computer that could run a 747.
18. Digital instrumentation rivalling a 747.
19. Courtesy lights that automatically turn on at night but not day.
20. Windscreen wipers that automatically detect rain.
21. Turbocharged or supercharged engine.
22. Quad cam electronically controlled valve timing.
23. Power to weight ratio of a racing car.
24. Top speed of 250 kph.
25. 0 to 100kph in 4 seconds.
26. Brakes that would pull up a jumbo jet.

I've probably missed a dozen others but you get the picture.
Barry Bali

Denpasar, Indonesia

#7 Jun 14, 2013
They've been producing sub standard products for years, why shouldn't their wages be sub standard as well ???
sid

Brisbane, Australia

#8 Jun 14, 2013
Barry Bali wrote:
They've been producing sub standard products for years, why shouldn't their wages be sub standard as well ???
Good point, now they are reaping what they have sown, holdens have been junk for years.

“REFUSE ALL IMITATIONS!!”

Since: Jan 11

Australia

#9 Jun 14, 2013
sid wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point, now they are reaping what they have sown, holdens have been junk for years.
Buy a car that's not junk and many of our sub-standard roads will pound it into junk within a year anyway, so why bother? And manufacturers of replacement shock-absorbers must have a cozy sweetheart relationship with local councils who are orgasmically obsessed with putting speed humps everywhere. They keep each other in a job at our expense.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#10 Jun 15, 2013
Yes, your all taking a short sighted view and it's a useless view at that, it just scapegoats the worker or the Managers that design crappy cars. That's what we have. If, you want a different worker and Manager to make your car buy a foreign made car. Alternatively, change the Australian car industry worker and Manager, a very hard thing to do.

Ask a skateboarder if he's prepared to skate down a 1-m slope, no problem.

Give the same skateboarder a 100-m slope but with the same slope. If he only has limited foresight he'll look at the first 1-m of the 100-m slope and see the same incline, no problem!

You see it takes foresight, not just looking at what is immediately in front of a persons nose. This same skateboard rider might want to pull out after 20-m down the 100-m slope when his speed is too fast to safely stop and could potentially kill him. Alternatively, if he hangs on longer then stopping becomes even more dangerous.

So, it is with the Car industry, it's called “throwing good money after bad”. If, your not properly prepared to go the whole distance then the best course of action is to cut your losses at the beginning. The later it's left to stop the whole adventure, the worse the futile loss will be.

However, if the decision is made to prepare for the 100-m slope. Then, do the proper homework, calculate the costs involved. Then after that if it's still found to be worthwhile, only go ahead when ready to do whatever it takes to stay the full distance and nothing less.

We just need to be cold hearted and practical to make sure firstly, that success and that success is worth the cost.

“REFUSE ALL IMITATIONS!!”

Since: Jan 11

Australia

#11 Jun 15, 2013
Australian Republic wrote:
Yes, your all taking a short sighted view and it's a useless view at that, it just scapegoats the worker or the Managers that design crappy cars. That's what we have. If, you want a different worker and Manager to make your car buy a foreign made car. Alternatively, change the Australian car industry worker and Manager, a very hard thing to do.
Ask a skateboarder if he's prepared to skate down a 1-m slope, no problem.
Give the same skateboarder a 100-m slope but with the same slope. If he only has limited foresight he'll look at the first 1-m of the 100-m slope and see the same incline, no problem!
You see it takes foresight, not just looking at what is immediately in front of a persons nose. This same skateboard rider might want to pull out after 20-m down the 100-m slope when his speed is too fast to safely stop and could potentially kill him. Alternatively, if he hangs on longer then stopping becomes even more dangerous.
So, it is with the Car industry, it's called “throwing good money after bad”. If, your not properly prepared to go the whole distance then the best course of action is to cut your losses at the beginning. The later it's left to stop the whole adventure, the worse the futile loss will be.
However, if the decision is made to prepare for the 100-m slope. Then, do the proper homework, calculate the costs involved. Then after that if it's still found to be worthwhile, only go ahead when ready to do whatever it takes to stay the full distance and nothing less.
We just need to be cold hearted and practical to make sure firstly, that success and that success is worth the cost.
Fear not. I understand where you're coming from.

Among the factors that need to be addressed is the time-honored one of "cutting the garment to suit the cloth".

At a population of 23million we do not really have a big enough local market to support local manufacture of many items, let alone cars. How many countries around the world with populations the size of ours have thriving Car manufacturing industries?

One remedial avenue might be for manufacturers to diversify. Cars, earth-moving machinery, and domestic whitegoods could all progress out of different parts of the same plant. And if the parent company can bite the bullet and diversify its interests at grass roots level then all those goods could carry the same brand.

It would also avoid the "all eggs in one basket" syndrome. If the market goes through a slow period for one line of product, the other lines could serve to buffer that impact.

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