U.S. Senate race / Coleman argues fla...

U.S. Senate race / Coleman argues flawed absentee ballots shoul...

There are 31 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Feb 12, 2009, titled U.S. Senate race / Coleman argues flawed absentee ballots shoul.... In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

This text is replaced by the Flash movie. Minnesota's U.S. Senate race may come down to three judges' answers to this question: Should they rigidly obey the state's absentee ballot law or is there some wiggle ...

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Joy

Minneapolis, MN

#1 Feb 12, 2009
Coleman must win. He has served 6 years already. And, he desires to serve the rest of his life in the Senate. I don't blame him, the perks are pretty good as a Senator. Still, doesn't he have the courage to find another type of work. Kind of like a "CAREER POLITICIAN" pitiful.
stinamond5

Minneapolis, MN

#2 Feb 13, 2009
It's easy enough to get your butt up and go to the polls to vote. What seems to be happening here is people want to vote by absentee ballot. Absentee ballots have rules that must be complied to. Gonzo was wrong,the law is the law.
Dr Bob

Saint Paul, MN

#3 Feb 13, 2009
Typical Republican. Follow the rules and insist that everyone else does, until the rules no longer serve your purpose. I'm fed up with Republicans claiming they own the moral high ground. They're just as frail and human as everyone else. Their problem is they don't admit it and hold everyone else accountable but themselves.
Rad Rethuglican

Saint Paul, MN

#4 Feb 13, 2009
Dr Bob wrote:
Typical Republican. Follow the rules and insist that everyone else does, until the rules no longer serve your purpose. I'm fed up with Republicans claiming they own the moral high ground. They're just as frail and human as everyone else. Their problem is they don't admit it and hold everyone else accountable but themselves.
I cannot argue with your post, but here's another aspect I think is interesting and it has to do with the reality is that humans can make mistakes. In the case of local election judges, as this recount has proven, a few mistakes were made by both the judges and the voters and they've been corrected when appropriate.

The three judge panel also seems to understand that the statute governing absentee ballots is also a human-created attempt to draw the line on what are not excusable voter mistakes and it is a reasonable one.

One of the basic dichotomies or contradictions of one of the Coleman's legal team's main arguments is that they do not want to make any excuses or allowances for mistakes by election judges, but to widen the gate of excusable mistakes by voters to let almost anything in; "wiggle room," as the story calls it.

In perhaps the most telling response from the three judge panel yet, one of them responded to the Coleman lawyer's question of how much of this contradictory argument the judge would "buy," and the judge said her job was ONLY to uphold the statute or law as passed by the legislature and signed by the Governor.

Buh bye legal "wiggle" room, Norm!

This trial is going to end sooner than later and even if Norm appeals, it would seem logical that Senator Elect Franken could be seated while that process is going on. Norm is expecting to lose, that's why he's spending all his time these days begging for money to keep this fight going.

Just because Norm does not want to admit defeat,(an understandable position, no doubt) does not justify Minnesota not having both of its U.S. Senate votes present and accounted for in this historic and crucial session of Congress.

“Free and Fair Elections”

Since: Jan 09

Zumbrota, MN

#6 Feb 13, 2009
Franken's tap dance: When the voters went to the polls, do everything possible to count the vote--including discerning voter intent. For absentee ballots: It is a privilege to vote absentee--you must follow the rules are they are presented. If you do not, the vote will not be counted.

Coleman is arguing virtually the opposite. Strict constuction on what constitutes an properly cast "regular" ballot. But on absentees, "substantial compliance".

I believe the law is on Franken's side. But the legal folks are going to be the ones that make that determination.

Since: Nov 08

Minneapolis, MN

#7 Feb 13, 2009
Rad Rethuglican wrote:
<quoted text>...The three judge panel also seems to understand...In perhaps the most telling response from the three judge panel yet...

Thanks for the daily report on how the three judge panel feels. I have mentioned this before, and again today I sense that their feelings are not being explored in enough depth for us to be able to feel their feelings with them.

Judges have feelings too, and three judge panels feel the same thing together. These legal distinctions are too complicated for us to understand, but the feelings of the judges is our key to the outcome of this election.

Anyway, thanks for letting me share my feelings about the three judge panel's feelings.

So, I am sensing angry al feels like his new job, where people will pretend he is important and funny to get political favors from him, is within his grasp. So, he's not as angry now, but will get back to the anger once the novelty of the sentate job wears off.

Libertarians must bear the embarrassement of a troll like angry al in the short term in the hopes that they can starve the liberal ron carey and his RINO-only party in minnesota, and find some actual conservatives for future elections.

I am guessing nahm is road kill at this point--thanks nahm for the bush/cheny rubber stamp--the multi trillion bank bailout, the pointless war in iraq, the 8 years of borrow and spend, the doubling of our future liabilities with medicare rx coverage.

I remember how ron cary manipulated the state convention to ensure that only liberals could be nominated. I recall the signs covering every inch of the wall: "mccain" and "coleman". Well, he kept ron paul out of the convention, kept libertarians from being national delegates, and look at the spoils of victory... Both liberals lost their respective elections, and we have socialists running the national government with the cooperation of rinos from other states.
dan

Saint Paul, MN

#8 Feb 13, 2009
Flatblade wrote:
Franken's tap dance: When the voters went to the polls, do everything possible to count the vote--including discerning voter intent. For absentee ballots: It is a privilege to vote absentee--you must follow the rules are they are presented. If you do not, the vote will not be counted.
Coleman is arguing virtually the opposite. Strict constuction on what constitutes an properly cast "regular" ballot. But on absentees, "substantial compliance".
I believe the law is on Franken's side. But the legal folks are going to be the ones that make that determination.
I agree with you, but that law should have been followed during the initial recount, and it wasnít. Both parties are now arguing the opposite side they initially took.
Forrest123

Las Vegas, NV

#10 Feb 13, 2009
Al Franken's attorney Marc Elias made a very strong arguement; I think he will prevail on Monday.

“The Lord of Sound Logic.”

Since: Nov 08

Fargo, ND

#11 Feb 13, 2009
dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with you, but that law should have been followed during the initial recount, and it wasnít. Both parties are now arguing the opposite side they initially took.
I think that Franken has been more consistently arguing that legally cast ballots should be counted. He consistently took the lead when dropping 'contested' ballots that would need the state board to determine intent.
The one area that is inconsistent is that his side contested 200 or so of the 5th pile absentee ballots. I wonder though if that was in response to Coleman's consesting 200 or so of the same 5th pile.
I hope the court comes to their senses and orders the rest of the 5th pile opened and counted. Then we could be done with this senate race.
ABowers1

Saint Marys, PA

#12 Feb 13, 2009
Did you notice that NONE of the 19 categories asked about ballots where the signature on the application did NOT match the signature on the absentee ballot envelope? This has been Coleman's main argument for saying that different counties used different standards - some lenient and some strict. This category also may have the majority of ballots in Coleman's 4,700.
Franken's attorney added this category at the end. A sort of numbr 20. And said the election officials rulings should stand - ballots are OUT.
Does this mean the court already has decided this issue? Or are they waiting for another day....

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#13 Feb 13, 2009
If it was anybody but Al Franken I'd tell Coleman to give it up, but the longer this stays in court, the less time that we actually have to deal with Annoying Al, so go Norm.
pamela baker

Buffalo, NY

#14 Feb 13, 2009
while our country is in a state of disaster, the voters; the country is wainting
for results. coleman is under investigation for fraud, not unlike sen.stevens.
al frankin is your senater, accept it; move on. please let al do his job, for
the sake of the United States of America!

“Free and Fair Elections”

Since: Jan 09

Zumbrota, MN

#15 Feb 13, 2009
dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with you, but that law should have been followed during the initial recount, and it wasnít. Both parties are now arguing the opposite side they initially took.
Dan, when was the law not followed in the recount? Remember, they recounted ballots cast at polling places, so "voter intent" was in play.
ESG

Saint Paul, MN

#16 Feb 13, 2009
Dr Bob wrote:
Typical Republican. Follow the rules and insist that everyone else does, until the rules no longer serve your purpose. I'm fed up with Republicans claiming they own the moral high ground. They're just as frail and human as everyone else. Their problem is they don't admit it and hold everyone else accountable but themselves.
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. It just like all those Dems who don't pay their taxes but expect the rest of us to.
Eric F

Minneapolis, MN

#17 Feb 13, 2009
pamela baker wrote:
while our country is in a state of disaster, the voters; the country is wainting
for results. coleman is under investigation for fraud, not unlike sen.stevens.
al frankin is your senater, accept it; move on. please let al do his job, for
the sake of the United States of America!
What's the point of pleading to us? The three judges are the only ones who can speed this up, and Coleman made the choice to drag this out. He's also made it apparent he's considering an appeal to federal courts if he loses. What are we supposed to do about it? Despite appearances, the campaign is over.
smarter than you

Saint Paul, MN

#18 Feb 13, 2009
Coleman is ridiculous. He is now scratching to get his job back. He always was one to turn with the wind. Franken is clearly who MN. voted for - get him seated already and stop wasting money on this garbage.
Eric F

Minneapolis, MN

#19 Feb 13, 2009
dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with you, but that law should have been followed during the initial recount, and it wasnít. Both parties are now arguing the opposite side they initially took.
Franken hasn't changed his argument for strict interpretation of the law. That was why he made an issue out of some ballots being wrongly rejected. He wasn't calling for fudging, but for correct acceptances and rejections. Now he says rightly rejected ballots should remain rejected. How is that inconsistent?
dan

Saint Paul, MN

#20 Feb 13, 2009
Flatblade wrote:
<quoted text>
Dan, when was the law not followed in the recount? Remember, they recounted ballots cast at polling places, so "voter intent" was in play.
Iím talking about the recount of the absentee ballots. The MN Supreme courts ruling was so vague, that some precincts didnít even bother to review the ballots. The Coleman camp didnít want them reviewed, but when they lost that argument, they are simply asking that the same standards be applied for every precinct.

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#21 Feb 13, 2009
smarter than you wrote:
Coleman is ridiculous. He is now scratching to get his job back. He always was one to turn with the wind. Franken is clearly who MN. voted for - get him seated already and stop wasting money on this garbage.
Only about 43 percent of MN "clearly" voted for the sleazbag.
Gman

Minneapolis, MN

#22 Feb 13, 2009
"The Coleman camp didnít want them reviewed, but when they lost that argument, they are simply asking that the same standards be applied for every precinct."

The same standard was applied at every precinct, the standard set out in state law. Is Coleman implying that there were many absentee ballots improperly rejected from heavily Republican precincts when he was ahead, that he wants counted now that he is behind? Judging by the areas most of the ballots he wants reviewed are from, it would appear he is.

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