First tracks for SMART being laid

First tracks for SMART being laid

There are 25 comments on the Santa Rosa Press Democrat story from Jul 20, 2010, titled First tracks for SMART being laid. In it, Santa Rosa Press Democrat reports that:

Published: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 at 4:03 a.m. Last Modified: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 at 4:03 a.m. The first tracks of a railroad line that someday will carry commuters in Sonoma and Marin counties are being laid near San Rafael.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Santa Rosa Press Democrat.

First Prev
of 2
Next Last

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#1 Jul 20, 2010
Woof, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Smart is a monument to insanity! It will only be challenged for prominence by the Marin Energy Authority.

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#2 Jul 20, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
Woof, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Smart is a monument to insanity! It will only be challenged for prominence by the Marin Energy Authority.
MEA will eclipse smart especially if a de-sal plant is built . They suck up lots of power and MEA provides nothing new and won't be able to handle it.

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#3 Jul 21, 2010
Cal native wrote:
<quoted text>
MEA will eclipse smart especially if a de-sal plant is built . They suck up lots of power and MEA provides nothing new and won't be able to handle it.
Woof, CN, I have always believed that Government projects should be named after the person that pushes them. SMART should forever be called the "McClashen". This way, fifty years from now this idiot's legacy will be one of disdain.

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#4 Jul 21, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Woof, CN, I have always believed that Government projects should be named after the person that pushes them. SMART should forever be called the "McClashen". This way, fifty years from now this idiot's legacy will be one of disdain.
here is a similar project that like SMART was critisized for going nowwhere and required transfers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprinter_%28San_...

It didn't live up to the negative or positive hype. It turned out to be useful but in different ways than people originally thought. WHat's it's legacy?
SMART has the potential to be very similar although the people in charge are probably even less qualified. Sprinter like SMART was built on a line that had not seen a passenger train in a long time , 1947 for srpinter as apposed to early 60's for NWP/SMART. While I'm not in favor of diesel cars and all the extra expenses SMART wants to add it's time to do something that is not highway centric . Buses , cars, they are the problem when they are the only way to get about. Add as many choices train, boat, air and cars will be less used and the ones that are there will travel at more regular speeds burning less fuel per mile.!01 cannot be expanded enough to solve our congestion problems so as bad as SMART may be , it is better than the alternative .MEA has the potential to be far worse since the have the ability to both raise rates and taxes without tax payer consent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprinter_%28San_...

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#5 Jul 21, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Woof, CN, I have always believed that Government projects should be named after the person that pushes them. SMART should forever be called the "McClashen". This way, fifty years from now this idiot's legacy will be one of disdain.
Something I left out was that Santa Rosa has more people than all the towns that Sprinter serves combined. I hear the goes nowhere argument all the time but serving the 12th largest metropolitan area in the state is somewhere.

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#6 Jul 21, 2010
Cal native wrote:
<quoted text>
Something I left out was that Santa Rosa has more people than all the towns that Sprinter serves combined. I hear the goes nowhere argument all the time but serving the 12th largest metropolitan area in the state is somewhere.
Woof, CN, Sprinter cost 8 times more to build than estimates. It's ridership, 8,000 per day, does not come close to paying for its operation including paying off Bond interest. In the case of Sprinter, while the tracks had not been used for passenger service for a number of years, the tracks were still there, not the case with SMART! If SMART costs 8 times more than construction estimates, how will Marinites wver recover the cost. I live south of Larkspur, and I have to pay for SMART through sales tax, but I will not be a user for obvious reasons. 8,000 riders is 4,000 people "round-trip". For the cost of SMART California could pay 4,000 people to simply stay home. Don't believe me? 4,000 x $50,000 = 200,000,000/per year. The break even point for SMART is higher than $200 million per year in revenue, so why build SMART, just pay potential riders not to take jobs.

What a deal, "We 'SMART' will pay you $50,000/yr. if you don't work and don't travel on highway 101".

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#7 Jul 22, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Woof, CN, Sprinter cost 8 times more to build than estimates. It's ridership, 8,000 per day, does not come close to paying for its operation including paying off Bond interest. In the case of Sprinter, while the tracks had not been used for passenger service for a number of years, the tracks were still there, not the case with SMART! If SMART costs 8 times more than construction estimates, how will Marinites wver recover the cost. I live south of Larkspur, and I have to pay for SMART through sales tax, but I will not be a user for obvious reasons. 8,000 riders is 4,000 people "round-trip". For the cost of SMART California could pay 4,000 people to simply stay home. Don't believe me? 4,000 x $50,000 = 200,000,000/per year. The break even point for SMART is higher than $200 million per year in revenue, so why build SMART, just pay potential riders not to take jobs.
What a deal, "We 'SMART' will pay you $50,000/yr. if you don't work and don't travel on highway 101".
1) tracks for Smart were there until removed by SMART and cal trans recently.

2) all public transit is not self sustaining and cannot be. the 1/4cent sales tax is not very much unless you spend like a drunken sailor and even then it's on non food. Marin is not paying for the entire thing, they are not even paying for half of it. Sonoma's larger population will be paying for more of it. That said while I don't agree with you I don't blame you for not wanting to pay for something you won't use but isn't that true of most taxes. How many people ever use all the money they pay into unemployment insurance? In Marin that number is very low and yet we still have to pay . all taxes are that way. my taxes are paying for a freeway expansion I view as environmentaly criminal.

3) paying people not to work and stay home is non expandable and shortsighted.

4) SMART allows inevitable developement to be pushed north. With out it there will be more and more pressure to build here .

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#8 Jul 22, 2010
Cal native wrote:
<quoted text>
1) tracks for Smart were there until removed by SMART and cal trans recently.
2) all public transit is not self sustaining and cannot be. the 1/4cent sales tax is not very much unless you spend like a drunken sailor and even then it's on non food. Marin is not paying for the entire thing, they are not even paying for half of it. Sonoma's larger population will be paying for more of it. That said while I don't agree with you I don't blame you for not wanting to pay for something you won't use but isn't that true of most taxes. How many people ever use all the money they pay into unemployment insurance? In Marin that number is very low and yet we still have to pay . all taxes are that way. my taxes are paying for a freeway expansion I view as environmentaly criminal.
3) paying people not to work and stay home is non expandable and shortsighted.
4) SMART allows inevitable developement to be pushed north. With out it there will be more and more pressure to build here .
Woof, CN,

1) SMART first based their estimates on using the tracks, and then determined that the tracks were in many cases torn away or in bad shape. They then decided to replace them, upping the final cost tremendously. Poor Planning from the start.
2) "all public transit is not self sustaining and cannot be". Therefore, public transit is government taking from some and giving to others - "welfare",
3) "1/4cent sales tax is not very much unless you spend like a drunken sailor". Few taxes are very much by themselves. It is the cumulative effect that is crushing. Just look at California and tell me who the "drunken sailors are?
4) We pay people not to work NOW, by the millions! Congress just extended "unemployment" "pay" to 99 weeks. At what point is this simply an entitlement?
5) If "inevitable development is North, which I interpret as Sonoma and Santa Rosa, then jobs will also be North. This only proves that a train from Santa Rosa to the Larkspur Ferry Terminal (to San Francisco) is a dumb idea. Jobs follow Labor availability, and if it is more available in Santa Rosa, jobs will move there.

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#9 Jul 22, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Woof, CN,
1) SMART first based their estimates on using the tracks, and then determined that the tracks were in many cases torn away or in bad shape. They then decided to replace them, upping the final cost tremendously. Poor Planning from the start.
2) "all public transit is not self sustaining and cannot be". Therefore, public transit is government taking from some and giving to others - "welfare",
3) "1/4cent sales tax is not very much unless you spend like a drunken sailor". Few taxes are very much by themselves. It is the cumulative effect that is crushing. Just look at California and tell me who the "drunken sailors are?
4) We pay people not to work NOW, by the millions! Congress just extended "unemployment" "pay" to 99 weeks. At what point is this simply an entitlement?
5) If "inevitable development is North, which I interpret as Sonoma and Santa Rosa, then jobs will also be North. This only proves that a train from Santa Rosa to the Larkspur Ferry Terminal (to San Francisco) is a dumb idea. Jobs follow Labor availability, and if it is more available in Santa Rosa, jobs will move there.
they had figured the track would need replacing south of ignacio all along , it's not as expensive as people make it out to be. NCRA replaced a huge amount of track in the schelville area where flooding had wiped it out. it cost a fraction of what SMART is spending. The bigger expenditures will be stations, rail cars, and signaling. One thing that bugs me are those stupid rail cars , they are a waste of money in times like this. From Ignacio North NCRA has been doing the track work. The rail there is the same age as south to san rafael, they replaced ties for the most part only doing the ones that had to be done. Highways are also welfare . no difference between which type, we all pay for other. What percentage of the roads do you drive on? You pay for all of them, every little street in every neighborhood.
people collecting unemployment have paid into the system for many many years. Not giving them unemployment would be theft. The high paying jobs are and always will be in SF not sonoma. By developement what a meant was it will happen in Marin if we don't give people a good transit system to live elsewhere. In a perfect world this would not be the case but the people we elect push it farther from perfect everyday.

Here are a few links to see what can be done with old track. They show the NCRA progress. It's out of date now but shows photos from last year .

first one is a bridge with all new railroad ties. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_it-q71pSUn8/SicF9ob...

this is the main site with random photos of the work .

http://northwesternpacifictoday.blogspot.com/

gotta run. Happy tails.

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#10 Jul 22, 2010
Cal native wrote:
<quoted text>
they had figured the track would need replacing south of ignacio all along , it's not as expensive as people make it out to be. NCRA replaced a huge amount of track in the schelville area where flooding had wiped it out. it cost a fraction of what SMART is spending. The bigger expenditures will be stations, rail cars, and signaling. One thing that bugs me are those stupid rail cars , they are a waste of money in times like this. From Ignacio North NCRA has been doing the track work. The rail there is the same age as south to san rafael, they replaced ties for the most part only doing the ones that had to be done. Highways are also welfare . no difference between which type, we all pay for other. What percentage of the roads do you drive on? You pay for all of them, every little street in every neighborhood.
people collecting unemployment have paid into the system for many many years. Not giving them unemployment would be theft. The high paying jobs are and always will be in SF not sonoma. By developement what a meant was it will happen in Marin if we don't give people a good transit system to live elsewhere. In a perfect world this would not be the case but the people we elect push it farther from perfect everyday.
Here are a few links to see what can be done with old track. They show the NCRA progress. It's out of date now but shows photos from last year .
first one is a bridge with all new railroad ties. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_it-q71pSUn8/SicF9ob...
this is the main site with random photos of the work .
http://northwesternpacifictoday.blogspot.com/
gotta run. Happy tails.
Woof, CN,
* I may not drive on every road, but I can, and at anytime. Also, roads can be used as mass transit, flexibly. The system is called buses. Try one, when a line is no longer practical, it can be canceled and the bus can be used elsewhere.
* Workers DO NOT pay into the unemployment compensation system, employers do. It jis designed to provide an "interim" support between jobs. However, the party in power has stretched the meaning of "interim" to 99 weeks, and will extend it further. At what point should we simply stop calling it unemployment compensation and call it "pay for not working". Clearly, many of those receiving this payment are simply passing up jobs that they deed beneath them or less than the "benefit".
* "The high paying jobs are and always will be in SF not sonoma". I disagree, today the highest paid jobs are in the Silicon Valley not San Francisco, and yet the people that take Cal Trans to SF are not high paid.
* Instead of building Trains, the most efficient societal construct in today's world is to have employers closer to where employees live. Developments like the internet, and other similar technologies facilitate this. Most employers are no longer "heavy industry" requiring large centralized factory sites.
* High paid executives will not live in Sonoma and ride the SMART to San Francisco to work. Mass transit is and always will be the "common person's" commuter system, and these workers will also opt to work closer to their homes when they can, thus SMART is a flawed concept.

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#11 Jul 23, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Woof, CN,
* I may not drive on every road, but I can, and at anytime. Also, roads can be used as mass transit, flexibly. The system is called buses. Try one, when a line is no longer practical, it can be canceled and the bus can be used elsewhere.
Busses are flexible and I use to use them quite a bit but they are also part of a large problem that we americans have. Road based transport is the least fuel efficient type. We pruoduce between 3-5 times more pollution per capita than any other nation including those with out the restrictions we have. US autos and buses are the largest culprit. It takes 10-20 times more energy per pound to move a rubber tired vehicle than a steel tired vehicle. Using them as the only transit is slefish and
irresponsible. Not everyone can do with out but alternatives should be provided for those that can. It makes Marin look very bad when we pretend to be green and then use the least green form of transit. Not everyone cares about this but i do.

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#12 Jul 23, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Woof, CN,

* Workers DO NOT pay into the unemployment compensation system, employers do.
My pay stubs show exactly how much of my paycheck is used to Pay UI.
My taxes end up being about %10 less than my Canadian relatives and we get less than half the services. Granted some are better here but most are worse , including unemployment. Ours is a handout with a bad system to help people find jobs. I was on it for 7.5 months .
Our system really sucks. With all that we have we should be able to do better and not have to become more like europe.

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#13 Jul 23, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Woof, CN,

* Instead of building Trains, the most efficient societal construct in today's world is to have employers closer to where employees live. Developments like the internet, and other similar technologies facilitate this. Most employers are no longer "heavy industry" requiring large centralized factory sites.
* High paid executives will not live in Sonoma and ride the SMART to San Francisco to work. Mass transit is and always will be the "common person's" commuter system, and these workers will also opt to work closer to their homes when they can, thus SMART is a flawed concept.
All this would be nice but it isn't happening and isn't going to in our lifetime. My counterparts in SF make 3 times my pay. I had to take a huge pay cut to avoid commuting. My wife had to start commuting because the same job in Marin requires a 30k pay cut to start. it gets worse from there. That said if transit is the common mans , and they do the work the rest of us don't want to do then we should give them a better system that has all options available , at least IMHO.

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#14 Jul 23, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Mass transit is and always will be the "common person's" commuter system, and these workers will also opt to work closer to their homes when they can, thus SMART is a flawed concept.
SMART is not designed just for SF commuters it is also designed for people who can't afford to live in over priced Marin to work the low paying jobs we have scattered about. 2 of my coworkers live in Healdsburg and commute to Novato because the jobs though computer based require us to be here but don't pay enough to live here. The farther we move from North the more our clients look elsewhere.
Silicon valley has the same price problem. It's not all that way but enough is .

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#15 Jul 23, 2010
Cal native wrote:
<quoted text>
Busses are flexible and I use to use them quite a bit but they are also part of a large problem that we americans have. Road based transport is the least fuel efficient type. We pruoduce between 3-5 times more pollution per capita than any other nation including those with out the restrictions we have. US autos and buses are the largest culprit. It takes 10-20 times more energy per pound to move a rubber tired vehicle than a steel tired vehicle. Using them as the only transit is slefish and
irresponsible. Not everyone can do with out but alternatives should be provided for those that can. It makes Marin look very bad when we pretend to be green and then use the least green form of transit. Not everyone cares about this but i do.
Woof, CN, Cost of fuel is not the only cost. When you compare Smart to a Bus system, you have to include the cost of capital for building SMART, and the fact that "feeder" transportation will still have to be provided to and from the SMART Stations. These will probably be buses, anyway.

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#16 Jul 23, 2010
Cal native wrote:
<quoted text>
My pay stubs show exactly how much of my paycheck is used to Pay UI.
My taxes end up being about %10 less than my Canadian relatives and we get less than half the services. Granted some are better here but most are worse , including unemployment. Ours is a handout with a bad system to help people find jobs. I was on it for 7.5 months .
Our system really sucks. With all that we have we should be able to do better and not have to become more like europe.
Woof, CN, I challenge your assertion. The Unemployment Compensation Fund is funded by taxing EMPLOYERS. There is no deduction from your paycheck, unless you are in a UNION, and it is a Union Fund, which has nothing to do with the government unemployment fund.

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#17 Jul 23, 2010
Cal native wrote:
<quoted text>
All this would be nice but it isn't happening and isn't going to in our lifetime. My counterparts in SF make 3 times my pay. I had to take a huge pay cut to avoid commuting. My wife had to start commuting because the same job in Marin requires a 30k pay cut to start. it gets worse from there. That said if transit is the common mans , and they do the work the rest of us don't want to do then we should give them a better system that has all options available , at least IMHO.
Woof, CN, The pay scale in SF is based on the cost to live in SF. You have chosen to take advantage of a lower cost of living area, and yet you are taking a job away from a SF resident. One might interpret it that way.

“Freedom Demands Responsibility”

Since: Aug 09

21st Century

#18 Jul 23, 2010
Cal native wrote:
<quoted text>
SMART is not designed just for SF commuters it is also designed for people who can't afford to live in over priced Marin to work the low paying jobs we have scattered about. 2 of my coworkers live in Healdsburg and commute to Novato because the jobs though computer based require us to be here but don't pay enough to live here. The farther we move from North the more our clients look elsewhere.
Silicon valley has the same price problem. It's not all that way but enough is .
Woof, CN, you referred to commuters using SMART to commute for "high paying jobs" in SF. I disagreed, because high paid people don't tend to take mass transit. It tends to be used by people employed in more "common" employment. I do not share your belief that a selective subsidized transportation system is a right. I do believe that a national highway system benefits ALL citizens.

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#19 Jul 23, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Woof, CN, Cost of fuel is not the only cost. When you compare Smart to a Bus system, you have to include the cost of capital for building SMART, and the fact that "feeder" transportation will still have to be provided to and from the SMART Stations. These will probably be buses, anyway.
Yep I'm not talking about cost more about fuel per person. Cars cannot beat rail especially with the new technologies creeping up in the rail industry. I too have some issues with SMART . I'm not sold on rail cars and a few other things. I would prefer they start with conventional equipment that is cheaper to at least do a trial , continuing only if a predetermined minimum ridership is reached. That said , what we have now doesn't work and nothing proposed is better than even such a flawed SMART plan , at least for many of my friends and co-workers.
I can see how many would disagree if they don't directly benefit or other reasons but more than %50 of Marin voters have agreed with me every time it comes to vote.

“"In dog years, I'm dead."”

Since: Feb 08

Novato

#20 Jul 23, 2010
FreeDog wrote:
<quoted text>
Woof, CN, you referred to commuters using SMART to commute for "high paying jobs" in SF. I disagreed, because high paid people don't tend to take mass transit. It tends to be used by people employed in more "common" employment. I do not share your belief that a selective subsidized transportation system is a right. I do believe that a national highway system benefits ALL citizens.
selective benefits all in that it gets some off of the roads , reduces total pollution which improves quality of life.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Sonoma County Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Sonoma County Mugshots and Criminal Arrest Rec... Sep '16 Nick 2
News Gelhaus gets a promotion after getting away wit... Aug '16 thomas ward 1
News Donate to the Upcoming Musical Instrument Drive (May '16) May '16 Julie Jane 1
News Brewpub Replacing Old Mexico in Santa Rosa (Apr '16) Apr '16 KAREN 1
News State orders audit of Marin family court (Jul '09) Apr '16 Hue Jass 870
News Poverty increasing for Latinos in Sonoma County (Dec '15) Dec '15 wild child 3
News Seasonal workers flock to California to process... (Nov '15) Nov '15 Here Is One 1
More from around the web