Proposed coal-fired plants in Michigan

Proposed coal-fired plants in Michigan

There are 23 comments on the WOOD-TV Grand Rapids story from Apr 13, 2008, titled Proposed coal-fired plants in Michigan. In it, WOOD-TV Grand Rapids reports that:

Michigan has 19 coal-fired power plants. Permit applications for five new or expanded coal plants are being considered by state environmental regulators: _Midland County, a 750-megawatt joint project by LS ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WOOD-TV Grand Rapids.

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dpheil68

AOL

#1 Apr 13, 2008
We should use our own coal instead of exporting it-

“Taz say Hi”

Since: Jan 08

Holland,MI

#2 Apr 13, 2008
We do use our own coal. Much of the coal used in our power plants comes from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming.

Since: Mar 08

Morley, Mi

#3 Apr 13, 2008
Gentle Taz wrote:
We do use our own coal. Much of the coal used in our power plants comes from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming.
Ummm, We used to use our own.. Now only a small percentage is US coal.. President Clinton made a shady deal with another country (sorry can't remember which one) to get low sulfur coal from them and then signed a bill into law ( seems to me it had something to do with declaring a large area of land used for mining as federal environmentally protected) that closed a large percentage of our low sulfur mines because our low sulfur coal was in those areas he closed off.

I will admit this is from what I can remember. so, I'm not positive of its accuracy.

Since: Mar 08

Morley, Mi

#4 Apr 13, 2008
Also, Looking at my electric bill each month....The more power plants the better... just so it helps control prices.
Mark

Lovington, NM

#5 Apr 14, 2008
Why are we not building more nuclear power plants?

The cleanest energy around and we don't use it. Stupid us.
not a golfer

Glen Spey, NY

#6 Apr 14, 2008
Gentle Taz wrote:
We do use our own coal. Much of the coal used in our power plants comes from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming.
We do use coal from out west because it is lower in sulfur that closer sources like Southern Illinois. Their coal is shipped to the east coast to be burned so the acid clouds will not affect eastern mountains and fall harmlessly in the ocean. Most older methods of coal mining leave MUCH more coal in the ground than it takes out. They just basically mine hallways through it and leave huge area size pillars. We have LOTS of coal left it just gets more expensive to go and get it.
not a golfer

Glen Spey, NY

#7 Apr 14, 2008
Mark wrote:
Why are we not building more nuclear power plants?
The cleanest energy around and we don't use it. Stupid us.
AGREED! This is the best energy do charge those electric cars.....you do have to put energy INTO those unlike a lot of folks apparently think. Now that we are using food for energy with ethanol, we have triggered a WORLD WIDE food shortage. We need nukes more than ever but regulation and politics will prevent it.
lake sailor

United States

#8 Apr 14, 2008
Just a quick note on the imported coal comment ... Most coal burned in Michigan (specifically Muskegon, Marquette, Essexville, and St. Clair, and Monroe) is low sulfur "Western Coal" mined in MT and ID. It is carried by train to Superior, WI and then shipped by water to the generating stations. It takes 600 rail cars, on average, to fill one freighter for the final leg of the journey down the lakes. Other coal is loaded out of Toledo, OH or Calumet, IL, again by ship, for delivery and that coal comes from IN, OH, or the Appalachian mines in WV.

On the comment about falling "harmlessly into the ocean", we need to be carelful about that one! Admittedly, Eastern coal is "dirtier" than that from out west and the impact on the oceans can't be ignored. That being said, our neighbors to the north who complain about acid rain in the boreal forest need to realize that coal is burned in Canada that, by law, we can't use here because of the sulur content and residual metals in the exhaust. Odd how most coal loadings from Conneaut, Sandusky, and Toledo go to Ontario, isn't it?

All in all, coal is plentiful, cheap, and if bured in modern generating plants using emission scrubbers, is quite clean. Nuclear energy would be great but it is an even more uphill battle to get a plant approved, built, and on-line than a coal station.

Fire away ...

“10k yr old politician”

Since: Apr 08

Grand Rapids MI

#9 Apr 14, 2008
Too bad lake sailor, I don't see any tree huggers piling on you, I love to watch a good fight, you know what you're talking about and apparently have the data to back you up.
They on the other hand are more into emotional mumbo jumbo with death and global warming just over the hill.
dpheil68

AOL

#10 Apr 14, 2008
Why not use coal to make oil?
Seenitbefore

Three Rivers, MI

#11 Apr 14, 2008
Grasshopper1624 wrote:
Also, Looking at my electric bill each month....The more power plants the better... just so it helps control prices.
Do you really think it's going to, as you say, control prices? You WILL see your monthly bill go UP to pay for the building of these new plants.

Seriously, do people really think these companies are going to pay for the construction themselves. I remember my bills going up EVERY time a nuclear plant and any other type of improvement to electrical service being built and/or improved on. And I remember specifically the MPSC telling the people their monthly bills would be increasing after they gave the approval for construction.

I don't mean to be crude about this but come on think a little. NO company is going to take the improvement of their business out of their own pocket planning on future income increases. Really...

Since: Mar 08

Morley, Mi

#12 Apr 15, 2008
Seenitbefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think it's going to, as you say, control prices? You WILL see your monthly bill go UP to pay for the building of these new plants.
Seriously, do people really think these companies are going to pay for the construction themselves. I remember my bills going up EVERY time a nuclear plant and any other type of improvement to electrical service being built and/or improved on. And I remember specifically the MPSC telling the people their monthly bills would be increasing after they gave the approval for construction.
I don't mean to be crude about this but come on think a little. NO company is going to take the improvement of their business out of their own pocket planning on future income increases. Really...
Do you think they will hold prices down when supply is low and demand is exceeding the local production of power?
I don't think so.... Look at California. all of their power is imported from other states...
The cost are staggering.

“Taz say Hi”

Since: Jan 08

Holland,MI

#13 Apr 15, 2008
lake sailor wrote:
Just a quick note on the imported coal comment ... Most coal burned in Michigan (specifically Muskegon, Marquette, Essexville, and St. Clair, and Monroe) is low sulfur "Western Coal" mined in MT and ID. It is carried by train to Superior, WI and then shipped by water to the generating stations. It takes 600 rail cars, on average, to fill one freighter for the final leg of the journey down the lakes. Other coal is loaded out of Toledo, OH or Calumet, IL, again by ship, for delivery and that coal comes from IN, OH, or the Appalachian mines in WV.
On the comment about falling "harmlessly into the ocean", we need to be carelful about that one! Admittedly, Eastern coal is "dirtier" than that from out west and the impact on the oceans can't be ignored. That being said, our neighbors to the north who complain about acid rain in the boreal forest need to realize that coal is burned in Canada that, by law, we can't use here because of the sulur content and residual metals in the exhaust. Odd how most coal loadings from Conneaut, Sandusky, and Toledo go to Ontario, isn't it?
All in all, coal is plentiful, cheap, and if bured in modern generating plants using emission scrubbers, is quite clean. Nuclear energy would be great but it is an even more uphill battle to get a plant approved, built, and on-line than a coal station.
Fire away ...
Holland gets it's coal via ship, the Consumers plant at Port Sheldon is served by rail, mostly BNSF trains which come from the Powder River basin mines.
Seenitbefore

Three Rivers, MI

#14 Apr 15, 2008
Grasshopper1624 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think they will hold prices down when supply is low and demand is exceeding the local production of power?
I don't think so.... Look at California. all of their power is imported from other states...
The cost are staggering.
I don't argue that. To believe though that the addition of these plants is going to be the panacea for energy costs is juvenile thinking. But then that type of thinking is a pandemic in this state.
Ask yourself this question. IF the economic problems and loss of businesses and population in this state is as bad a problem as so many want to believe it is, why the need for more electricity generation plants?
Ever ask yourself why it is when the economy is, and has been several times over past decades, why more office buildings and bank buildings get built than when the economic times are good? While your asking yourself that, also question why it is that the poor economic times and this expansion of office and bank...business buildings, as opposed to manufacturing expansion increases.

A little Sherlock Holmes is needed here because things are not as they seem and espceially not you're being told.
not a golfer

Glen Spey, NY

#15 Apr 15, 2008
Seenitbefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't argue that. To believe though that the addition of these plants is going to be the panacea for energy costs is juvenile thinking. But then that type of thinking is a pandemic in this state.
Ask yourself this question. IF the economic problems and loss of businesses and population in this state is as bad a problem as so many want to believe it is, why the need for more electricity generation plants?
Ever ask yourself why it is when the economy is, and has been several times over past decades, why more office buildings and bank buildings get built than when the economic times are good? While your asking yourself that, also question why it is that the poor economic times and this expansion of office and bank...business buildings, as opposed to manufacturing expansion increases.
A little Sherlock Holmes is needed here because things are not as they seem and espceially not you're being told.
Must be a conspiracy? Is that what you are saying? How come people believe in super complex multi-state perfectly coordinated secret conspiracies when it is obvious that these same people can't even perform simple governmental functions and Katrina response is about the peak of coordination they are capable of? I guess I don't have my tinfoil had folded correctly because I don't see it....
not a golfer

Glen Spey, NY

#17 Apr 15, 2008
lake sailor wrote:
Just a quick note on the imported coal comment ... Most coal burned in Michigan (specifically Muskegon, Marquette, Essexville, and St. Clair, and Monroe) is low sulfur "Western Coal" mined in MT and ID. It is carried by train to Superior, WI and then shipped by water to the generating stations. It takes 600 rail cars, on average, to fill one freighter for the final leg of the journey down the lakes. Other coal is loaded out of Toledo, OH or Calumet, IL, again by ship, for delivery and that coal comes from IN, OH, or the Appalachian mines in WV.
On the comment about falling "harmlessly into the ocean", we need to be carelful about that one! Admittedly, Eastern coal is "dirtier" than that from out west and the impact on the oceans can't be ignored. That being said, our neighbors to the north who complain about acid rain in the boreal forest need to realize that coal is burned in Canada that, by law, we can't use here because of the sulur content and residual metals in the exhaust. Odd how most coal loadings from Conneaut, Sandusky, and Toledo go to Ontario, isn't it?
All in all, coal is plentiful, cheap, and if bured in modern generating plants using emission scrubbers, is quite clean. Nuclear energy would be great but it is an even more uphill battle to get a plant approved, built, and on-line than a coal station.
Fire away ...
Good job of hitting on all of my points but in more detail. Nice to have someone that knows what they are talking about. I do stand by my acid rain falling harmlessly in the ocean opinion although I realize there are cautions to that. Acid clouds are the big problem with mountaintops being dramatically affected as you probably know. How much do you think the oceans PH is affected by acid rain? Not much. More than a drop in the ocean...but...
not a golfer

Glen Spey, NY

#18 Apr 15, 2008
dpheil68 wrote:
Why not use coal to make oil?
Because is is orders of magnitude more expensive. What will you do with the oil then, burn it in less efficient gas turbines to generate electricity? Burning coal strait away without converting makes more sense on many fronts. No conversion costs and energy consumption plus coal fired powerplants are THE have the highest efficiencies of total energy conversion of all of our choices at about 45%. If you mean burn it in cars for transportation that is fine but that is an entirely different use for energy and more like 10% of the energy is actually converted to forward motion.
not a golfer

Glen Spey, NY

#19 Apr 15, 2008
One thing we SHOULD NOT do is use food products for energy....The myth of ethanol has already caused a world wide food shortage.....
Mark

Lovington, NM

#20 Apr 15, 2008
not a golfer wrote:
One thing we SHOULD NOT do is use food products for energy....The myth of ethanol has already caused a world wide food shortage.....
WHAT? Say it isn't so? Another well-intentioned idea that is totally screwed up by our government?

Hard to believe. NOT
Seenitbefore

Three Rivers, MI

#21 Apr 15, 2008
not a golfer wrote:
<quoted text>Must be a conspiracy? Is that what you are saying? How come people believe in super complex multi-state perfectly coordinated secret conspiracies when it is obvious that these same people can't even perform simple governmental functions and Katrina response is about the peak of coordination they are capable of? I guess I don't have my tinfoil had folded correctly because I don't see it....
No. There are no such things as conspiracies. They simply don't exist. So ya you do have your tinfoil "had" folded incorrectly.

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