EIT money trail is impossible to follow

EIT money trail is impossible to follow

There are 18 comments on the Lebanon Daily News story from Apr 1, 2010, titled EIT money trail is impossible to follow. In it, Lebanon Daily News reports that:

I attended the meeting of municipalities and school districts on March 17 at which the earned-income tax issue was presented by the EIT Bureau president and a consulting firm that analyzed the EIT data for 2004-07 and developed a method to recompute the taxes for all 34of the taxing authorities in the county for these four years.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Lebanon Daily News.

No Kidding

Lebanon, PA

#1 Apr 2, 2010
No one will ever figure out this money trail? Why? Because there is none left? Records were destroyed, deleted or not entered at all. There are way too many people to blame yet they are pointing fingers at people who had nothing to do with it and blinding the public from the real truth. The board and the auditing firm that found this mess are well aware of deleted records from the computer, shredding of documents by employees before they were supposed to be shredded and the fact that the computer system was set up to put our tax dollars into the computer according to the township and school district we all live in. Was this done? NOPE!!! Addresses were not corrected, documents were not entered and the reporting was given as an estimate, not run as the software was set up to do, distributing exactly how much money we paid to the appropriate entities. This did not happen due to actions of the bureau and the board overseeing them. Places were over/underpaid for a reason and it was not just due to Foltz's theft. Let's question all of the old employees. Someone knows something and I bet there is a heck of a story to tell. Anyone want to fess up what was happening because the way my ears heard it there was a lot of nonsense going there.
Morbius

United States

#2 Apr 2, 2010
No Kidding wrote:
No one will ever figure out this money trail? Why? Because there is none left? Records were destroyed, deleted or not entered at all. There are way too many people to blame yet they are pointing fingers at people who had nothing to do with it and blinding the public from the real truth. The board and the auditing firm that found this mess are well aware of deleted records from the computer, shredding of documents by employees before they were supposed to be shredded and the fact that the computer system was set up to put our tax dollars into the computer according to the township and school district we all live in. Was this done? NOPE!!! Addresses were not corrected, documents were not entered and the reporting was given as an estimate, not run as the software was set up to do, distributing exactly how much money we paid to the appropriate entities. This did not happen due to actions of the bureau and the board overseeing them. Places were over/underpaid for a reason and it was not just due to Foltz's theft. Let's question all of the old employees. Someone knows something and I bet there is a heck of a story to tell. Anyone want to fess up what was happening because the way my ears heard it there was a lot of nonsense going there.
The whole EIT is one big..well, you know.

Simply put, the EIT needs to be shut down and something that works put in its place. Right know those idiots exist only to farm out business to a third party.
Foltz and Friends

Lebanon, PA

#3 Apr 3, 2010
HAHAHA....you uneducated people of Lebanon County are also stupid!

Just send in your cash,credit cards,jewelry,first born,anything of value ....we will take it ...or we will put a lien on your property. Remember to pay your fare of taxes so we can legally rob you...we need more of your money....our pension fund is not getting the return we want! send in everything you got!(Thank You...The 8th Street Gang)

Lebanon County EIT Bureau
Lebanon County Courthouse
South 8th Street
Lebanon PA 17042
thomas paine

Lancaster, PA

#4 Apr 3, 2010
Foltz and Friends wrote:
HAHAHA....you uneducated people of Lebanon County are also stupid!
Just send in your cash,credit cards,jewelry,first born,anything of value ....we will take it ...or we will put a lien on your property. Remember to pay your fare of taxes so we can legally rob you...we need more of your money....our pension fund is not getting the return we want! send in everything you got!(Thank You...The 8th Street Gang)
Lebanon County EIT Bureau
Lebanon County Courthouse
South 8th Street
Lebanon PA 17042
Well said!!!!!
Dwayne Salem

Lebanon, PA

#5 Apr 3, 2010
Considering the topic I find it fitting that this article was printed on April Fool's Day. If this problem that exists is ever going to be resolved it should be up to the six school district to figure out how they are going to reconcile this mess amongst themselves and all of the municipalities. The six school districts had both authority and responsibility for this mess and they should be responsible for fixing it. Fixing this mess should not involve more taxes, fixing this mess should involve cooperation from the municipalities and some degree of cost cutting within the six school districts. When you see all of the fussing an fighting that goes on around here in much smaller organizations---and I am only speaking for what I have been invovled with at this end of the county---it comes as no surprise that this is completely fouled up. It's funny how all of these school districts and municipalities want to spend money and the residents are all supposed to cough up money yet none of these organizations that want to spend money seem to have had any interest in keeping track of money and those who are supposed to cough up money are supposed to keep coughing up more despite the fact that there was little accountability for money that was coughed up in the past. I can understand why the Cornwall Borough would want to just forget about it, Cornwall Borough is second only to ELCO as being the most overpaid of the group. But, how do you plan to convince the City of Lebanon and North Lebanon Township to forget about it? I think that forgetting about it gives the impression that it is OK to make a mess and it was OK for these school districts and municipalities to be irresponsible. Just keeping doing more and more and keep spending more and more; and keep up this notion that you can have whatever you want. And when they are not satisfied---which they never will be satisfied---just point a finger at those who are responsible and expect them to provide even more satisfaction. That is probably not the direction that this should take.
Answer Man

Lebanon, PA

#6 Apr 4, 2010
"NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION" is fitting since the school districts are in the middle of this robbery!If you were not paying your taxes your real estate would be levied. This is the opitomy of local government arrogance.

The days of "TAXPAYER FUNDED KINGDOM'S" should be numberd.

Remember the history of "THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR"
USMC

Lebanon, PA

#7 Apr 4, 2010
Dwayne Salem wrote:
Considering the topic I find it fitting that this article was printed on April Fool's Day. If this problem that exists is ever going to be resolved it should be up to the six school district to figure out how they are going to reconcile this mess amongst themselves and all of the municipalities. The six school districts had both authority and responsibility for this mess and they should be responsible for fixing it. Fixing this mess should not involve more taxes, fixing this mess should involve cooperation from the municipalities and some degree of cost cutting within the six school districts. When you see all of the fussing an fighting that goes on around here in much smaller organizations---and I am only speaking for what I have been invovled with at this end of the county---it comes as no surprise that this is completely fouled up. It's funny how all of these school districts and municipalities want to spend money and the residents are all supposed to cough up money yet none of these organizations that want to spend money seem to have had any interest in keeping track of money and those who are supposed to cough up money are supposed to keep coughing up more despite the fact that there was little accountability for money that was coughed up in the past. I can understand why the Cornwall Borough would want to just forget about it, Cornwall Borough is second only to ELCO as being the most overpaid of the group. But, how do you plan to convince the City of Lebanon and North Lebanon Township to forget about it? I think that forgetting about it gives the impression that it is OK to make a mess and it was OK for these school districts and municipalities to be irresponsible. Just keeping doing more and more and keep spending more and more; and keep up this notion that you can have whatever you want. And when they are not satisfied---which they never will be satisfied---just point a finger at those who are responsible and expect them to provide even more satisfaction. That is probably not the direction that this should take.
The system is not fixable in the past or in the future unless a census is taken of every employed person in the county, every year. Even then, many would not respond to the census because they don't have to.
Now, the system relies on workers telling their employer where they live and when they move and employers forwarding this data to the EIT tax collector. This will never happen. The system was flawed to begin with and remains so.
Genius

Lebanon, PA

#8 Apr 4, 2010
Employers did report. What happened to the information they reported?
USMC wrote:
<quoted text>
The system is not fixable in the past or in the future unless a census is taken of every employed person in the county, every year. Even then, many would not respond to the census because they don't have to.
Now, the system relies on workers telling their employer where they live and when they move and employers forwarding this data to the EIT tax collector. This will never happen. The system was flawed to begin with and remains so.
USMC

Lebanon, PA

#9 Apr 5, 2010
Genius wrote:
Employers did report. What happened to the information they reported?
<quoted text>
Some employees didn't tell their employer they moved. Some did. Some employers did report changes; some did not. Some changes were entered and some were not. That's the whole point. The EIT system was garbage to begin with and got worse as time went by. For anyone to say they could accurately reconstruct those 4 years is the height of idiocy.
Lebanon County Citizen

Harrisburg, PA

#10 Apr 5, 2010
Based upon the uproar of protest I am reading at this reply site, plus the other reply site that now has 150 comments, I trully hope that all of you take the opportunity to attend your borough, municipal, and/or school board meetings and begin to ask questions and demand answers. Especially from those jurisdictions that seem to be rolling over and falling into agreement based upon directions suggested by their biased solicitors.
Thank you for your participation and concern.
Taxpayer

Williamstown, PA

#11 Apr 5, 2010
I hope people start attending these meetings and the LDN starts reporting more than meeting minutes. They need to do some actual reporting and ask some of the questions brought up on Topix.
Lebanon County Citizen wrote:
Based upon the uproar of protest I am reading at this reply site, plus the other reply site that now has 150 comments, I trully hope that all of you take the opportunity to attend your borough, municipal, and/or school board meetings and begin to ask questions and demand answers. Especially from those jurisdictions that seem to be rolling over and falling into agreement based upon directions suggested by their biased solicitors.
Thank you for your participation and concern.
Step One

Harrisburg, PA

#12 Apr 6, 2010
Every EIT payer in LebCo should immediately send the Bureau notice that he/she questions, or would like to confirm, the amounts of EIT he/she paid every year since 2004, and what municipality's taxroll he/she is listed on. The taxpayer's request should be framed so that the Bureau will have to search its complete records to find all such taxrolls that the taxpayer may be listed on, instead of just repeating back to the taxpayer the town he/she is living in.
One of two possiblities may happen then: the information returned will be correct, or the information returned by the Bureau will NOT be correct. EITHER WAY, THE TAXPAYER SHOULD IMMEDIATELY THEN REQUEST THAT THE BUREAU PRESENT ANY AND ALL EVIDENCE THAT THE TAXPAYER DID NOT FULFILL HIS/HER EIT OBLIGATION FOR EACH OF THOSE YEARS. And, if the first set of information is incorrect, and incorrect in that it shows that the taxpayer paid too much money or via the taxroll of a mucnipality that he/she didn't reside in--THE TAXPAYER SHOULD THEN IMMEDIATELY REQUEST A REPAYMENT.
All information received from the Bureau should then be shown to your municipal leaders--especially the ones that are going to sign US up for repaying an unfounded "debt". At that time, you should tell them to get their own checkbooks out, if they want to play this game, because "these papers right here, these papers from the EIT Bureau itself, show that I paid all my taxes in 2004. I paid them in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008...I owe nothing. You screwed this up. You fix it. Or else--if you in any way start extracting something more out of us to make US pay for your mess, then WE WILL ACCUSE YOU OF TAKING TOO MUCH OF OUR MONEY AND DEMAND REPAYMENT FROM EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU WHO VOTED YES TO THIS SCAM." Because, the fact is that even the municipal leaders who are considering these bogus allegations don't even have proof to justify this "additional budgetary expense". So, let the municipal leaders know that the buck is going to stop with them--not with us
Step Two

Harrisburg, PA

#13 Apr 6, 2010
Write to you township, borough, or what-have-you, and TELL THEM THAT YOU THINK THAT THEY RECEIVED TOO MUCH OR YOUR EIT TAXES for the years 2004 through 2008, and THAT YOU WANT THE OVERPAYMENT BACK.

TELL THEM THAT, according to precedent set by the EIT Bureau and themselves in this larger "Over/Under" allegation, YOU DO NOT NEED TO PRESENT EVIDENCE of the overpayment, and to just take your word for it. Follow up that statement, though, with an offer to have a "reconstruction" report done that would better show your allegation.

In fact, you could also send individual letters demanding repayment from each of your local public officials that were in office any of these years, again citing the current precedent of not having to present any documentation.
The address for the EIt Bureau is Box 723,Lebanon, PA 17042
dropping it bad idea

Harrisburg, PA

#14 Apr 7, 2010
Dwayne Salem wrote:
I think that forgetting about it gives the impression that it is OK to make a mess and it was OK for these school districts and municipalities to be irresponsible. Just keeping doing more and more and keep spending more and more; and keep up this notion that you can have whatever you want.... That is probably not the direction that this should take.
I agree. There is so much evidence of chronic and systemic mismanagement that it really shows intentionality--you know, intent to defraud the taxpayer. The solicitors' and local leaders' complicity with trying to cover up this bad conduct as quickly and as secretly as possible just further implicates them as conspirators in this defrauding.

This issue shouldn't be dropped--it should be the jumping off point for a criminal prosecution. Does Davie Boy (the District Attorney) have any clue about how many votes he would attract if he prosecuted this? This would be his "cash cow" of votes, if he ever had the 'nads to break free from his theme of "prosecuting for politics."
What did Chuck know

Elizabethtown, PA

#15 Apr 9, 2010
Here's an interesting twist in Mt. Gretna's Borough Council President's claim that they were innocent in all of this:

In July of 2004, MGB Council president Chuck Allwein went on the record as saying "EIT revenue is decreasing because our number of full time residents is decreasing."

Yet, as the EIT Bureau wants us to believe, and as is reported in MGB books, during that time, the borough really was getting more and more EIT year after year. And, Daddy Allwein was fully aware THAT MGB'S EIT REVENUE WAS NOT DECREASING. So why did he lie like that?

So, yeah, did Daddy Allwein know that the Borough should never have received INCREASED EIT revenues year after year? He sure did.

But did he keep taking that increase anyway? He sure did.

In fact, by also stating that he knew that the MGB number of full time residents was decreasing, he was admitting that he also knew that MGB probably didn't have a right to INCREASED EIT revenues.(Don't forget that a resident's income could have sky-rocketed from one year to the next, causing an increase in EIT revenue...but that possibility is irrelevant in explaining why a municipal official went public with a statement that he KNEW to be INCORRECT.)

More importantly, it also shows his intent to deceive his "public." He absolutely knew that MGB was still getting increasing amounts of EIT revenue year after year, but he used the ploy of decreasing full time resident numbers to make it look they were going to have to raise taxes or do something else to "keep up the MGB income levels." In fact, he states exactly that at the same meeting: "The Borough must consider other methods of increasing borough income..."

Note, he never says, "let's cut this bloated public staff and bloated budget." That's because he has been bilking MGB taxpayers with these deceptions for decades now. EIT was really just another tactic.

And, now, when he and his pal of forty years, who also happens to be the solicitor for the MGB and the solicitor arranging all this secret EIT meetings, want to unilaterally arrange to make US pay that back, just watch to see what crucifying or pettiness they resort to when their bad antics are criticized and challenged publicly.

I bet there is ample more evidence out there of other persons bad behavior in this EIT thing. But it certainly won't be attributable to the taxpayer.
ample bad behavior

Lebanon, PA

#16 Apr 11, 2010
There is ample bad behavior. From the lowest on the totem pole employee to the board president. Oh there are many hands that created this mess....from people not doing their jobs.....to a director who managed badly.....to a board who appeared to look the other way while all of this was going on. I say look at them all and prosecute them all, anyone who was responsible for the collecting and input/output of the records for the EIT to Foltz who was overseeing these people, to the board who was to be overseeing Foltz. This did not just happen....people knew things were not right......PEOPLE KNEW inside and outside the walls of that place, people knew and it was all kept mum until all crap hits the fan. Now all of those people seem to be in hiding while the taxpayers are being asked to pay the price. I say make them pay back income that they received to do their jobs since it appears they did not do them....isn't that fraud? It seems people were getting paid to provide a service that was not being provided.
mike

Lebanon, PA

#17 Apr 11, 2010
Why should the cheating and lieing pulic servant employee lose their job? That would be to much like the public sector of employment.

When the goverment tax collector commits suicide, it is case quickly closed and don't ask any questions.

Am I the only one that see's a problem with the way the Lebanon County Leadership has responded to this matter or THE LACK OF LEBANON COUNTY LEADERSHIP.

LEBANON COUNTY POLITICIANS ARE CRIMINALS....THEY NEED TO BE PROSECUTED....SOMEONE NEEDS TO DO THIER JOB
ample bad behavior

Lebanon, PA

#18 Apr 12, 2010
AMEN!!!
mike wrote:
Why should the cheating and lieing pulic servant employee lose their job? That would be to much like the public sector of employment.
When the goverment tax collector commits suicide, it is case quickly closed and don't ask any questions.
Am I the only one that see's a problem with the way the Lebanon County Leadership has responded to this matter or THE LACK OF LEBANON COUNTY LEADERSHIP.
LEBANON COUNTY POLITICIANS ARE CRIMINALS....THEY NEED TO BE PROSECUTED....SOMEONE NEEDS TO DO THIER JOB

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Lebanon County Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Popeye's chicken coming to West Lebanon Sep '17 Robert 1
News 4 pregnant women with Zika confirmed in Yorka Jul '17 Rose Writes 1
News Illegal immigrant being held after police stop Jun '17 spytheweb 1
News 12 placed in Lebanon County ARD program (Dec '16) Dec '16 bored1 1
Sears Background Check (Nov '16) Nov '16 Eric 2
News AG: York man shared child pornography online (May '14) Nov '16 NOT TRUMP 30
News Brian Hendricks of Lebanon charged with fraud, ... (Jul '13) Jun '16 Woodpecker 8
More from around the web