Study: Anti-gay hate crimes double

Study: Anti-gay hate crimes double

There are 156 comments on the WZZM Grand Rapids story from May 21, 2008, titled Study: Anti-gay hate crimes double. In it, WZZM Grand Rapids reports that:

A reported spike in hate crimes against gay people in Michigan is more than a series of assaults on individuals, advocates say.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WZZM Grand Rapids.

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“A Proud Gay Parent”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#144 May 27, 2008
DARK HELMET LIVES wrote:
<quoted text>
Just how do you know that it hasn't?
I have a niece that I love dearly. She is living that lifestyle. And make no mistake, though I do not and cannot approve of her choice of an alternate lifestyle, she's my niece--my blood, my kin--and I'll never turn my back on her. If you want to have a different opinion than mine, so be it. My God, we've just spent a day honoring those who gave their last full measure so that we CAN disagree and not end up beat to a bloody pulp or dead or in a concentration camp for doing so! You see me as narrow minded? I see it as refusing to back down or comprimise on my beliefs. No surrender, no retreat. If you want to have discourse with me, then dammit, let's have discourse; an exchange of ideas and views without the rhetoric. We may have to agree to disagree, and that's OK! But know this: If someone attacks me personally, runs my beliefs, my intellect, my faith down because they can't come up with a reasonable counter--or just because that's how they get their rocks off--my fangs come out and I WILL defend myself--no surrender, no retreat, and no appologies.
'Nuff said. Peace out ...
But, don't you see you already HAVE turned your back on your niece (assuming she knows how you feel)? I also have family members who say they "love me", but can't condone my "lifestyle". They make it clear that while I'm not thrown out of the family, I don't quite measure up. So, even though the intentions might be good, they still make me feel disenfranchised. Your niece probably feels the same way. You are more than entitled to your beliefs, but don't please don't mistake your nieces silence (or mine where my family is concerned) for a feeling of acceptance and love.
EEEWWWW

Colorado Springs, CO

#145 May 27, 2008
get real people wrote:
<quoted text>You probably shouldn't be on the computer unless you asked your mommy first.
You shouldnt be on your computor and smoke pole at the same time.....
get real people

Denver, CO

#146 May 27, 2008
EEEWWWW wrote:
<quoted text>
You shouldnt be on your computor and smoke pole at the same time.....
If you are gonna post like a 4 year old you will likely be treated like one
DARK HELMET LIVES

Cincinnati, OH

#147 May 27, 2008
Craig in OKC wrote:
<quoted text>
But, don't you see you already HAVE turned your back on your niece (assuming she knows how you feel)? I also have family members who say they "love me", but can't condone my "lifestyle". They make it clear that while I'm not thrown out of the family, I don't quite measure up. So, even though the intentions might be good, they still make me feel disenfranchised. Your niece probably feels the same way. You are more than entitled to your beliefs, but don't please don't mistake your nieces silence (or mine where my family is concerned) for a feeling of acceptance and love.
There's this little concept called "hate the deed, not the doer". I'll grant you that, sometimes, it's hard to separate the two. Believe it or not, I think you're getting a raw deal where your family is concerned. If it grieves you so, speak up and pin 'em down. Couldn't hurt ...

Since: Jul 07

Cincinnati, OH

#148 May 27, 2008
DARK HELMET LIVES wrote:
<quoted text>
Just how do you know that it hasn't?
I have a niece that I love dearly. She is living that lifestyle. And make no mistake, though I do not and cannot approve of her choice of an alternate lifestyle, she's my niece--my blood, my kin--and I'll never turn my back on her. If you want to have a different opinion than mine, so be it. My God, we've just spent a day honoring those who gave their last full measure so that we CAN disagree and not end up beat to a bloody pulp or dead or in a concentration camp for doing so! You see me as narrow minded? I see it as refusing to back down or comprimise on my beliefs. No surrender, no retreat. If you want to have discourse with me, then dammit, let's have discourse; an exchange of ideas and views without the rhetoric. We may have to agree to disagree, and that's OK! But know this: If someone attacks me personally, runs my beliefs, my intellect, my faith down because they can't come up with a reasonable counter--or just because that's how they get their rocks off--my fangs come out and I WILL defend myself--no surrender, no retreat, and no appologies.
'Nuff said. Peace out ...
You seem to feel you know my lifestyle. What exactly is this lifestyle?

So if someone disagrees with your made up assessment of them and counters with a made up assessment of you then you fly off the handle? I would hope that you would see the irony in your statement but I don't hold out any hope.
Go Green

Grand Rapids, MI

#149 May 27, 2008
Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>ROFLMAO! He's more American than your commentary is, our Founding Fathers were Liberals too.
And that is what lead us into Civil War!

Since: Jul 07

Cincinnati, OH

#150 May 27, 2008
DARK HELMET LIVES wrote:
<quoted text>
There's this little concept called "hate the deed, not the doer". I'll grant you that, sometimes, it's hard to separate the two. Believe it or not, I think you're getting a raw deal where your family is concerned. If it grieves you so, speak up and pin 'em down. Couldn't hurt ...
Some people are better off left with their misconceptions. Surprisingly it creates more peace if one person is left to believe they are better then the other.'Hate the deed and not the doer' is actually a recent saying that comes from those that wish to believe they are God like and able to judge those they know nothing of.
ARF

Cedar Springs, MI

#151 May 27, 2008
I love all of Alfred's comments in a non-pha got way

“A Proud Gay Parent”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#152 May 27, 2008
DARK HELMET LIVES wrote:
<quoted text>
There's this little concept called "hate the deed, not the doer". I'll grant you that, sometimes, it's hard to separate the two. Believe it or not, I think you're getting a raw deal where your family is concerned. If it grieves you so, speak up and pin 'em down. Couldn't hurt ...
It doesn't grieve me. I was just pointing out that you may not come off as loving and tolerant to your niece as you may think. That's the misconception of "hate the deed, not the doer". I've read your posts and when people attack your beliefs, you also get very defensive and angry. I'm not implying that in some instances you weren't provoked. But, if you can get that upset from someone attacking your beleifs on a forum, imagine how it makes a person feel when they are told by family "I love you, but hate everything you stand for". It's a contradictory statement, and we recognize it for what it is. I don't have the need to make peace with those family members who "hate my deed". Because, quite frankly, that means they hate me, whether they admit it or not. And, whether you realize it or not, that is probably how your niece feels. Again, I am aware I'm making assumptions. To those who are the "deed-doers", the "love the doer" comments sound hollow.

“I will not go quietly.”

Since: Feb 07

Indianapolis Indiana

#153 May 27, 2008
Craig in OKC wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't grieve me. I was just pointing out that you may not come off as loving and tolerant to your niece as you may think. That's the misconception of "hate the deed, not the doer". I've read your posts and when people attack your beliefs, you also get very defensive and angry. I'm not implying that in some instances you weren't provoked. But, if you can get that upset from someone attacking your beleifs on a forum, imagine how it makes a person feel when they are told by family "I love you, but hate everything you stand for". It's a contradictory statement, and we recognize it for what it is. I don't have the need to make peace with those family members who "hate my deed". Because, quite frankly, that means they hate me, whether they admit it or not. And, whether you realize it or not, that is probably how your niece feels. Again, I am aware I'm making assumptions. To those who are the "deed-doers", the "love the doer" comments sound hollow.
What so many of the "Love the sinner hate the sin" crowd fail to recognize is the fact that "our" sexuality, which includes both the physical act as well as that which is referred to as Love for other members of our gender. While it is possible to abstain, the attraction as well as the love(for those of us who are partnered)for our significant others are as intricately bound to our being as their love and attraction for the opposite sex(husbands and wives). They cannot be separated from who "we" are as people. Only those who have had a mate rejected utterly by their blood-kin may come even remotely close to understanding such feelings of isolation and betrayal elicited by such a declaration of "love the sinner, hate the sin". Quite frankly, I have absolutely no use for any such hair-splitting tactics and as far as I'm concerned, anyone in MY family who attempts to make such a statement is dead to me. Time to mourn what once was and move on.
Batch 37 Pain is Good

Riverdale, MI

#154 May 27, 2008
Ya know, the whole article seems to be weighted by stats from an advocacy group. What are the State Police numbers? It seems a group wants to raise an issue that may have people that only want to be noticed and to poke a stick in society's eye. Go about your business and leave the rest alone. No one is bothering you more than anyone else. People are getting shot in GR all the time and it ain't because they are gay.....

Since: Dec 06

Plainfield, IL

#155 May 27, 2008
I agree wholeheartedly! I have always seen the "hate the sin, love the sinner" line as meaningless rhetoric. First, one's sexual orientation is an identity, not merely an action. Secondly, they don't really mean it. Someone who "loves" me would not work to keep me from being treated equally and fairly under civil law.
Pagan and Proud wrote:
<quoted text>What so many of the "Love the sinner hate the sin" crowd fail to recognize is the fact that "our" sexuality, which includes both the physical act as well as that which is referred to as Love for other members of our gender. While it is possible to abstain, the attraction as well as the love(for those of us who are partnered)for our significant others are as intricately bound to our being as their love and attraction for the opposite sex(husbands and wives). They cannot be separated from who "we" are as people. Only those who have had a mate rejected utterly by their blood-kin may come even remotely close to understanding such feelings of isolation and betrayal elicited by such a declaration of "love the sinner, hate the sin". Quite frankly, I have absolutely no use for any such hair-splitting tactics and as far as I'm concerned, anyone in MY family who attempts to make such a statement is dead to me. Time to mourn what once was and move on.
Ralph

Oak Brook, IL

#156 May 27, 2008
[QUOTE who="TheA$$prof"]I agree wholeheartedly! I have always seen the "hate the sin, love the sinner" line as meaningless rhetoric. First, one's sexual orientation is an identity, not merely an action. Secondly, they don't really mean it. Someone who "loves" me would not work to keep me from being treated equally and fairly under civil law.
<quoted text>[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you're getting paranoid there, A$$prof. Just who do you think is trying to keep you from being treated equally and fairly, or is that hommo hate speach for discriminatory benefits and subsidies contrary to the common will of the American People?

Since: Jul 07

Cincinnati, OH

#157 May 28, 2008
Craig in OKC wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't grieve me. I was just pointing out that you may not come off as loving and tolerant to your niece as you may think. That's the misconception of "hate the deed, not the doer". I've read your posts and when people attack your beliefs, you also get very defensive and angry. I'm not implying that in some instances you weren't provoked. But, if you can get that upset from someone attacking your beleifs on a forum, imagine how it makes a person feel when they are told by family "I love you, but hate everything you stand for". It's a contradictory statement, and we recognize it for what it is. I don't have the need to make peace with those family members who "hate my deed". Because, quite frankly, that means they hate me, whether they admit it or not. And, whether you realize it or not, that is probably how your niece feels. Again, I am aware I'm making assumptions. To those who are the "deed-doers", the "love the doer" comments sound hollow.
For someone that professes to love his niece post 105 is a strange way of showing it. He also professes to have been respectful when he first entered the board.

By the way, love the post. It was so well stated:-)

“Created Equal”

Since: Feb 08

USA

#158 May 29, 2008
what wrote:
<quoted text>
This is exactly the problem with the gays. When someone says they dont like what you are doing you call them names.
It just further proves they do not belong in society.
Grow up before you try to push your filth on other people.
I reread my post and I can see where it is misunderstood. What I meant was the teaching of gay acceptance. When a religious person accepts a sinful lifestyle even if they dont practice it, it is still sin. So by telling them they should accept the practics through classes in public school and on TV you are telling them their religion is not valid. This is what makes me sick. I apologise for not being clear the first time.
Um, religion is not valid. It is a pernicious and socially destructive superstiiton.

Religious prejudice is a real social evil. Two people loving each other, regardless of their genders, increases the amount of love in the world.

But as long as you're lecturing me about sin, how about this one:

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

and

"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

Do you really think that God grants you the authority to judge the "sins" of others as less greivous than your own?

That belief is the sin of arrogance. Please, come back again, and feel free to pave the way to your own damnation right here in this forum.

“Created Equal”

Since: Feb 08

USA

#159 May 29, 2008
Lucy in Rockford wrote:
Romans 1:18: The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
Romans 1:27: In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent act with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Pretty much the entire first chapter of Romans covers that.
Then there is Corinthians. Chapter 6:9-11 - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. But you were washed,.... in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. But, you have to believe that, in order for it to happen.
I'm slow, but I get there eventually. It's not just the Old Testament that damns homosexuality. And it's not archaic - it's a FACT. You people on your homosexual high horse can climb down, now. Unless you have the Lord, you ARE dam.ned.
Okay, let's try this dance again.

(1611 King James Bible:)

I Samuel 18

1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house.
3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.

4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.

5 And David went out whithersoever Saul sent him, and behaved himself wisely: and Saul set him over the men of war, and he was accepted in the sight of all people, and also in the sight of Saul's servants.
...
10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
11 And Saul cast the Javelin; for he said, I will smite David even to the wall with it. And David avoided out of his presence twice.
12 And Saul was afraid of David because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul.
...
14 And David behaved himself wisely in all ways; and the LORD was with him.
...
I Samuel 20
30 Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?
31 For as long as the son of Jesse liveth upon the ground, thou shalt not be established, nor thy kingdom. Wherefore now send and fetch him unto me, for he shall surely die.
32 And Jonathan answered Saul his father, and said unto him, Wherefore shall he be slain? What hath he done?
...
41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.
42 And Jonathan said to David, Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both of us in the name of the LORD, saying, The LORD be between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever. And he arose and departed: and Jonathan went into the city.
...

(Later, David mourns the death of Jonathan, fallen in battle...)

II Samuel 1,
25 How are the mighty fallen in the midst of battle! O Jonathan, thou wast slain in thine high places.
26 I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

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