Erie man's death following gun incide...

Erie man's death following gun incident ruled homicide

There are 29 comments on the Erie Times News story from Oct 3, 2012, titled Erie man's death following gun incident ruled homicide. In it, Erie Times News reports that:

Mike Miodus said a man he had never seen before pointed a gun at his face, then asked him if he was a tough guy while still holding the gun in his hands, when a friend of Miodus grabbed the gunman from behind and took him to the ground early Saturday morning.

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moby dick

Dundee, OH

#1 Oct 4, 2012
one less dirtbag to breathe our air and burn our gasoline. ggod riddance
what up with that

Erie, PA

#2 Oct 4, 2012
Mike Miodus' name is on the Most Arrogant thread. Coincidence?
What does arrogance have

Erie, PA

#3 Oct 6, 2012
what up with that wrote:
Mike Miodus' name is on the Most Arrogant thread. Coincidence?
to do with this? His life was in imminenet danger, and Rudoplh was taken out by another.
Withheld

Erie, PA

#4 Oct 6, 2012
What does arrogance have wrote:
<quoted text>
to do with this? His life was in imminenet danger, and Rudoplh was taken out by another.
Arrogance admittedly has nothing to do with this. However, the question must be begged as to why Miodus did ANYTHING other than telephone the police once the idiot was escorted outside. Note the story did not read "Rudolph pointed a gun at Miodus' face whilst inside the bar."

Instead, the story basically reads

1. Rudolph talked crap and revealed his gun a few times inside the bar

2. Rudolph slapped a guy

3. Miodus stepped in between Rudolph and guy he slapped

4. Woman came over and (lacking common sense) said something to the armed man, who promptly showed her the gun.

5. Rudolph was "escorted out" while "Miodus remained inside"

***- up until here, the gun was shown (meaning flaunted). The guy had not yet pulled the gun, according to the story. Why no one called the police at this point is beyond me - especially if not a "nuisance bar" and instead a "family establishment".

Continuing on...

6. Miodus __hears__ from someone else that the idiot has wielded his weapon.(common sense alert: call police and run AWAY --- not TOWARDS the weapon)

7. Miodus ignores seemingly common sense and goes outside - at which time Rudolph sticks gun in Miodus' face.

8. Midous tells dude to take a chill pill and put gun down.

9. "Hero" comes from behind, puts gunslinger in a choke hold and takes him to the ground.

10. Miodus grabbed gun.

11. Friend got up (how much time between steps nine and eleven and between step ten and eleven?)

Questions:

1. Why did Miodus go outside?

2. Was the "hero" under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

3. Considering cause of death was: "lack of oxygen to the brain due to neck compression," according to Lyell Cook - I REALLY wonder how long between step 10 and 11. If dude's wind pipe was damaged by the choke hold, the cause of death (in my opinion) sits far more towards justifiable and reasonable than if dude was left in the choke out for an extended period of time. Also, if Carlson was not in the bar when dude got bounced and/or not high or drunk, I'd lean in favor of not charging him. However, if drunk/high or if the airway wasn't disrupted from a quick grab and release, I'd be inclined to charge him and let it play through in court.

4. If Carlson was inside the bar, was HE the guy that Rudolph slapped twice and shook hands with, failing to let go? If yes, then definitely worthy of charges IMO.
good point on guy slapped

Erie, PA

#5 Oct 6, 2012
Withheld wrote:
<quoted text>
Arrogance admittedly has nothing to do with this. However, the question must be begged as to why Miodus did ANYTHING other than telephone the police once the idiot was escorted outside. Note the story did not read "Rudolph pointed a gun at Miodus' face whilst inside the bar."
Instead, the story basically reads
1. Rudolph talked crap and revealed his gun a few times inside the bar
2. Rudolph slapped a guy
3. Miodus stepped in between Rudolph and guy he slapped
4. Woman came over and (lacking common sense) said something to the armed man, who promptly showed her the gun.
5. Rudolph was "escorted out" while "Miodus remained inside"
***- up until here, the gun was shown (meaning flaunted). The guy had not yet pulled the gun, according to the story. Why no one called the police at this point is beyond me - especially if not a "nuisance bar" and instead a "family establishment".
Continuing on...
6. Miodus __hears__ from someone else that the idiot has wielded his weapon.(common sense alert: call police and run AWAY --- not TOWARDS the weapon)
7. Miodus ignores seemingly common sense and goes outside - at which time Rudolph sticks gun in Miodus' face.
8. Midous tells dude to take a chill pill and put gun down.
9. "Hero" comes from behind, puts gunslinger in a choke hold and takes him to the ground.
10. Miodus grabbed gun.
11. Friend got up (how much time between steps nine and eleven and between step ten and eleven?)
Questions:
1. Why did Miodus go outside?
2. Was the "hero" under the influence of drugs or alcohol?
3. Considering cause of death was: "lack of oxygen to the brain due to neck compression," according to Lyell Cook - I REALLY wonder how long between step 10 and 11. If dude's wind pipe was damaged by the choke hold, the cause of death (in my opinion) sits far more towards justifiable and reasonable than if dude was left in the choke out for an extended period of time. Also, if Carlson was not in the bar when dude got bounced and/or not high or drunk, I'd lean in favor of not charging him. However, if drunk/high or if the airway wasn't disrupted from a quick grab and release, I'd be inclined to charge him and let it play through in court.
4. If Carlson was inside the bar, was HE the guy that Rudolph slapped twice and shook hands with, failing to let go? If yes, then definitely worthy of charges IMO.
I was thinking Carlson was guy slapped and also did chokehold outside. That would make a difference in determining charges. Also as you said, if EC was under influence(more than likely victim was) Hopefully that is made clear about victim's state of mind.
LOl

Erie, PA

#6 Oct 6, 2012
carlson was not the guy he slapped
snag

Erie, PA

#7 Oct 6, 2012
hope the guy get's off
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#8 Oct 6, 2012
The question is did the heroic citizen(in my opinion)keep the choke hold on waaaaaay longer than he needed to due to emotionalism, ego, meanness or having a buzz?

The hero may say that even after disarmed the perp kept fighting so said hero had to, due to the new position of body to body contact, defend himself continually by leaving the choke on until the perp passed out.

If so, for one the perp may not have been fighting back but struggling to breathe. Also, if the hero was trained in MMA that may be a problem. A choke is an offensive (attack) weapon in this circumstance as opposed to one designed to control the opponent.

If trained the hero may be considered having a superior weapon (advantage) and possibly acting on trained instinct, perhaps an instinct to finish the move to completion.

Did the hero make a lapse of judgment by using an offensive move rather than using a controling hold on the disarmed perp?
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#10 Oct 6, 2012
family orientated ha wrote:
Its a drug bar, Yes a family orientated bar indeed lol
It's a family bar. There's a lot of homes there ;)
Dana White

Erie, PA

#12 Oct 7, 2012
yoo hoo wrote:
The question is did the heroic citizen(in my opinion)keep the choke hold on waaaaaay longer than he needed to due to emotionalism, ego, meanness or having a buzz?
The hero may say that even after disarmed the perp kept fighting so said hero had to, due to the new position of body to body contact, defend himself continually by leaving the choke on until the perp passed out.
If so, for one the perp may not have been fighting back but struggling to breathe. Also, if the hero was trained in MMA that may be a problem. A choke is an offensive (attack) weapon in this circumstance as opposed to one designed to control the opponent.
If trained the hero may be considered having a superior weapon (advantage) and possibly acting on trained instinct, perhaps an instinct to finish the move to completion.
Did the hero make a lapse of judgment by using an offensive move rather than using a controling hold on the disarmed perp?
If the deceased would have tapped out, the "rear naked choke" would have been released, and we wouldnt be going through all this discussion.......
Withheld

Erie, PA

#13 Oct 7, 2012
Dana White wrote:
<quoted text>
If the deceased would have tapped out, the "rear naked choke" would have been released, and we wouldnt be going through all this discussion.......
Alternatively, if the cops would have been called at the first sign of a gun illegally possessed in a bar (albeit a family oriented bar), the "rear naked choke" would not have been necessary.
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#14 Oct 7, 2012
Withheld wrote:
<quoted text>
Alternatively, if the cops would have been called at the first sign of a gun illegally possessed in a bar (albeit a family oriented bar), the "rear naked choke" would not have been necessary.
I don't know but is it certain the gun was illegally possessed?

Also, the thought of a group of people standing around watching someone get choked to death is creepy. Certainly a group of guys could have held the dude down until the police arrived.
Withheld

Erie, PA

#15 Oct 7, 2012
The "in a bar" part makes the gun illegal. Last I knew guns were not allowed in bars.

Agreed with the group being able to keep the guy down.
Michael Guzzardo

Erie, PA

#16 Oct 7, 2012
Guns are legal in bars in Pennsylvania provided you are either open carrying or lawfully concealing with a LTCF permit.

You can even have a few drinks. You can only really be charged for having a gun in a bar if you are legally intoxicated or doing something else illegal. No law in PA says you can't go to Odis 12 while legally armed and have a couple beers.
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#17 Oct 7, 2012
Dana White wrote:
<quoted text>
If the deceased would have tapped out, the "rear naked choke" would have been released, and we wouldnt be going through all this discussion.......
So you're saying maybe the guy was justifibly killed because he wasn't familiar with the UFC and cable, eh? Damn. Glad I didn't cancel my service ;)
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#18 Oct 7, 2012
Michael Guzzardo wrote:
Guns are legal in bars in Pennsylvania provided you are either open carrying or lawfully concealing with a LTCF permit.
You can even have a few drinks. You can only really be charged for having a gun in a bar if you are legally intoxicated or doing something else illegal. No law in PA says you can't go to Odis 12 while legally armed and have a couple beers.
This situation kinda puts a new spin on the saying "Guns don't kill people. People kill people".

:O
Withheld

Erie, PA

#19 Oct 7, 2012
Michael Guzzardo wrote:
Guns are legal in bars in Pennsylvania provided you are either open carrying or lawfully concealing with a LTCF permit.
You can even have a few drinks. You can only really be charged for having a gun in a bar if you are legally intoxicated or doing something else illegal. No law in PA says you can't go to Odis 12 while legally armed and have a couple beers.
Thank you for correcting me. Its not often I am wrong (LOL) and on this one, it appears as if I am. I always thought guns were not legal in bars in PA.
choke artist

Norwalk, OH

#20 Oct 7, 2012
Hope dubbs walks
Truck

Stow, OH

#21 Oct 8, 2012
You people are unbelievable. All I can say is I can only hope to God that if I am ever in a situation where my life or the life of my loved ones is in jeopardy there is someone like this there to save me. So quit playing devils advocate and tell it the way it is. Guys a hero, and has more courage than anyone of you.
crack bar

Erie, PA

#22 Oct 8, 2012
Truck wrote:
You people are unbelievable. All I can say is I can only hope to God that if I am ever in a situation where my life or the life of my loved ones is in jeopardy there is someone like this there to save me. So quit playing devils advocate and tell it the way it is. Guys a hero, and has more courage than anyone of you.
Most law abiding citizens wouldnt be in that crack bar in the first place, only scum go in there

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