Good Protest and Bad Protest

Last week's election contained a lot of bad news for those who advocate legal equality for gays and lesbians. California voters passed an amendment to the state's constitution that overturned a state supreme court ruling allowing same-sex marriage. Voters in Florida and Arizona passed similar measures, while Arkansas voters passed a referendum prohibiting gays and lesbians from adopting children. Those events have prompted a good deal of entirely understandable anger and led to many protests around the country. Many of those protests have been against the Mormon church in Utah, which spent millions of dollars in favor of the California ban amendment, but there are others as well. Unfortunately, some of those protests have gone too far, including here in Michigan.

[The BIG PICTURE]

JEWISH NAZIS? In Los Angeles last evening. I watched as an equal rights protest rally walking through the streets, passing a Jewish Temple on La Brea between Melrose and Beverly. A large crowd from the Jewish Temple stood on the sidewalk filled with very young to old. The kids pointing thumbs down and shaking their fists, others giving the finger, and some yelling hostiley at the protest rally as they peacefully walked down the street. That's what the Nazis did to the Jews and to gay people? Have the Jews become the modern day Nazis? JEWISH NAZIS?

[Tom in El Paso]

And so it begins.

When straights start going into MCC and UU churches and disrupting services will that be OK?

We've got one lesbian calling for gun ownership for all gays and lesbians.

We'll get what we get I suppose.

[BLACK HELP NEEDED NOW]

WHERE ARE THE GAY BLACKS? Finally in Santa Monica the other night three black people showed up at the equal rights protest rally. Trouble is, they were all holding up YES on 8 signs. The pro GLBT rights blacks aren’t showing up. WHY?

[anonymous]

Tom in El Paso wrote:

And so it begins.
When straights start going into MCC and UU churches and disrupting services will that be OK?
We've got one lesbian calling for gun ownership for all gays and lesbians.
We'll get what we get I suppose.

When MCC was founded, there was a lot of harassment and disruption of services. Gay people have been the targets of religiously motivated violence for a long time. I think it's about time for violence to flow the other direction.
BTW, one guy in Knoxville already visited the Unitarian church there back in July...

[LindaS]

We have great historic examples of nonviolent resistance in King and Gandhi. We need to learn from the past and move forward with peaceful resistance if we are to accomplish anything.

And yes, a man entered a Knoxville UU church intending to open fire on the congregation because they were liberal and supported gays. He was surprised to find himself wrestled to the ground and held for police by congregants. He was surprised that they fought back! There is a time for physical resistance and a time for peaceful resistance.

[Gay And Proud]

Don't forget too that at the Knoxville UU church, two people were killed and seven others injured before the bigot murderer was stopped. And the shooter made it very clear that the reason he went in guns blazing was because he didn't like the church's liberal views and support for GLBT citizens.

[Tom in El Paso]

BLACK HELP NEEDED NOW wrote:

WHERE ARE THE GAY BLACKS? Finally in Santa Monica the other night three black people showed up at the equal rights protest rally. Trouble is, they were all holding up YES on 8 signs. The pro GLBT rights blacks aren’t showing up. WHY?

How many other places are you going to post this BS? Why don't you get a life instead of instigating hate with your falsehoods.

[Tom in El Paso]

The BIG PICTURE wrote:

JEWISH NAZIS? In Los Angeles last evening. I watched as an equal rights protest rally walking through the streets, passing a Jewish Temple on La Brea between Melrose and Beverly. A large crowd from the Jewish Temple stood on the sidewalk filled with very young to old. The kids pointing thumbs down and shaking their fists, others giving the finger, and some yelling hostiley at the protest rally as they peacefully walked down the street. That's what the Nazis did to the Jews and to gay people? Have the Jews become the modern day Nazis? JEWISH NAZIS?

Is this a hobby of yours, feeding the flames? Or are you just a new variety of troll?

[ScottyMatic]

I remember saying to my grandfather one time, "you have to fight fire with fire." He replied, "That's the most damn fool thing I ever heard. Everyone knows, you fight fire with water!"

He was right.

If you read these forums regularly, you know that I'm no fan of organized religion in any form, especially the denominations who think it is their God-given right to oppress LGBT people and spread lies about our community.

However, I'd point out that there are some people's minds you're not going to change. A very wise manager I once worked with pointed out that you have to pick your battles carefully, so as not to create even more opposition. This had been after I took issue with something someone said in a staff meeting. The manager explained to me, "this was something that isn't settled yet, and wasn't going to be decided for months, but because you forced the guy to plant his feet on the issue, now it's going to be ten times harder to negotiate with him!"

And he was right.

Protesting outside churches who are "complicit in the oppression of the LGBT community" is not going to change the mind of any of the people in the church! The best you can hope for is to get a news crew there to show the world the protest... and how PEACEFUL, ORGANIZED, AND DETERMINED we are. Setting off the fire alarm and yelling "Jesus was a homo" at the parishioners is NOT going to gain us any ground. In fact, it will result in exactly the sort of characterization that the local news used in this report: "gay anarchists."
In the long run, it will be FAR FAR more effective to work within the LGBT community, and convince those who have mostly sat on the sidelines to get involved... in direct mail efforts, communicating with legislators, joining class-action lawsuits against oppressive legislation...

I ask you... does anyone believe that we can SCARE people into accepting LGBT equality?

I remember at the '91 March on Washington, when the radical activist group Act Up staged a "die-in" in the middle of the march route. They all just stopped marching, and laid down motionless in the street (to protest the government's lack of attention to the AIDS crisis). But they basically stopped the march. Everyone behind them in the march had to stop and just stand there for half an hour, in the 95 degree heat and blistering sun (I got a sunburn so bad I could barely drive home). Many marchers were furious that they had chosen to disrupt OUR OWN EVENT.

So please... think before you act. Ask yourself, "what positive outcome do we really want from this demonstration, and will our methods actually achieve that goal?" A protest is not about revenge against those who have wronged us. It's about changing things so such wrongs can't happen in the future. And if the protests get out of control, then the resulting negative press will only give us yet another thing we must overcome.

Things are bad enough as it is. Let's not make it worse by alienating reasonable people.

[Western1]

ScottyMatic wrote:

...and how PEACEFUL, ORGANIZED, AND DETERMINED we are. Setting off the fire alarm and yelling "Jesus was a homo" at the parishioners is NOT going to gain us any ground....

Neither is yelling F You at people in the forums here as you have done repeatedly. You're so full of yourself. Get off your high horse and Mima and Grandpa stories. You have been down right evil and mean to me and others who are simply stating their opinion in a civilized manner. It comes out of nowhere all of a sudden you're raging mad!

[GraceJeanJones]

Can anyone tell me what stores, establishments, etc., that I should boycott?

I know there is a blacklist that exists (but this does not really help me here in Michigan):

http://www.antigayblacklist.com/

And I also know the Marriott chain of hotels is owned and operated by a Mormon. This chain includes SPRINGHILL SUITES, FAIRFIELD INN & SUITES, RESIDENCE INN, COURTYARD, and some others.

But other than that, I'm at a loss. For sure, I do not want to visit an establishment that was complicit in getting Prop. 8 passed, or any other anti-gay amendment for that matter.

[ScottyMatic]

Western1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Neither is yelling F You at people in the forums here as you have done repeatedly. You're so full of yourself. Get off your high horse and Mima and Grandpa stories. You have been down right evil and mean to me and others who are simply stating their opinion in a civilized manner. It comes out of nowhere all of a sudden you're raging mad!

You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

I'm never "all of a sudden" raging mad... I'm ALWAYS raging mad, because people like you seem to think you're entitled to oppress people like me, and dictate a dubious, narrow religious morality to which everyone else must adhere. You weave distortions, deliberately gloss-over important distinctions, and repeatedly talk down to me.

So, if I relax my restraint in the face of such utter hogwash, perhaps I have justification for that.

Let me point out that I'm not standing in front of your church saying these things. I'm expressing myself in an appropriate venue, here on an LGBT news forum, where it is not at all uncommon for evangelical fundamentalists to refer to me and my friends as fags, queers, homos, buttpirates, deviants, child molestors and on and on. Those ephitets are not "someone's opinion," they are hate-filled terms of abuse and derision, and clearly intended as such.

So, if I reply to your high-and-mighty religious arrogance with an f-bomb, please don't consider that to be me standing up in YOUR church and being profane to your congregation.

Please just take it in the spirit in which it was intended... personally.

[Tom in El Paso]

Words for tomorrows demonstrations:

1.


We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome some day

CHORUS:


Oh, deep in my heart
I do believe
We shall overcome some day

2.


We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand some day

CHORUS


3.


We shall all be free
We shall all be free
We shall all be free some day

CHORUS


4.


We are not afraid
We are not afraid
We are not afraid some day

CHORUS


5.


We are not alone
We are not alone
We are not alone some day

CHORUS


6.


The whole wide world around
The whole wide world around
The whole wide world around some day

CHORUS


7.


We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome some day

CHORUS

[Watching2]

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