Bishops ask Gregoire to stop execution

Bishops ask Gregoire to stop execution

There are 9 comments on the KEPR 19 story from Nov 24, 2008, titled Bishops ask Gregoire to stop execution. In it, KEPR 19 reports that:

The state's Catholic bishops are asking Gov. Chris Gregoire to commute the death sentence of Darold Ray Stenson.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KEPR 19.

saint rafael

Los Angeles, CA

#1 Nov 24, 2008
The bishops of the Catholic Church continue to embarras themselves. Catholic theology and the Catholic Church has always supported the Death penalty.

The Death Penalty is just because the crime of murder deserves death. It is justice. The murderer's life is not innonent, it is guily. Justice demands his death because of his crime, he has forfeited his life.

The U.S. bishops should hit the books and read St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas who supported and justified the Death penalty.
kathy

United States

#2 Nov 25, 2008
saint rafael wrote:
The bishops of the Catholic Church continue to embarras themselves. Catholic theology and the Catholic Church has always supported the Death penalty.
The Death Penalty is just because the crime of murder deserves death. It is justice. The murderer's life is not innonent, it is guily. Justice demands his death because of his crime, he has forfeited his life.
The U.S. bishops should hit the books and read St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas who supported and justified the Death penalty.
The teaching of the Catholic Church is as follows: "....the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor....If, however,non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety...authority will limit itself to such means....the cases in which execution of the offender is an absolute necessity 'are very rare, if not practically non-existent.'" Catechism of the Catholic Church #2267 and Evangelium vitae 56.
Saint Rafael

Los Angeles, CA

#3 Nov 25, 2008
That teaching which you cited comes from Pope John Paul II. That was his opinion. That the death penalty should be rare is his opinion.

He in fact is contradicting all the other Popes throughout the centuries who supported the death penalty with Pope Puis XII being the most recent.

Whether or not society is protected is besides the point. The death penalty is just soley on the grounds of retribution. A life for a life. It is just to take a guilty life of the murderer for the innocent life that was murdered and it doesn't matter if the murderer poses no threat to society.
kathy

United States

#4 Nov 25, 2008
Saint Rafael wrote:
That teaching which you cited comes from Pope John Paul II. That was his opinion. That the death penalty should be rare is his opinion.
He in fact is contradicting all the other Popes throughout the centuries who supported the death penalty with Pope Puis XII being the most recent.
Whether or not society is protected is besides the point. The death penalty is just soley on the grounds of retribution. A life for a life. It is just to take a guilty life of the murderer for the innocent life that was murdered and it doesn't matter if the murderer poses no threat to society.
No, what you stated is only your opinion. What was in my commentary was a quote from the Catechism of the Catholic and an encyclical from the late Pope John Paul II; it is Catholic doctrine, NOT opinions. That what the Catechism and encyclicals have, doctrine and not opinions.
Saint Rafael

Los Angeles, CA

#5 Nov 25, 2008
Pope John Paul II had his opinion on the Death Penalty put into the Catechism.

I am not stating my opnion, I am stating the moral teaching of the justness of the Death penalty from what the Magisterium has always taught. Every Pope believed in the death penalty. Saints and Doctors of the Church like St. Thomas, have defended the death penalty. Christendom throughout the centuries administered the death penalty. God himself commanded the death penalty in the Old Testament.

The Catholic Church did not start opposing the death penalty until Pope John Paul II came along.
The Church started opposing the death penalty in the '90s for the first time in history. Pope John Paul II's teaching on the death penalty was a break with tradition, a novelty, and a new teaching. Vatican I taught as infallible, that no Pope can invent new doctrine.

I'm sorry Pope John paul II, but instead of your new teaching and novelty, I will follow the Magisterium of the Church and its Tradition on the subject of the death penalty.
kathy

United States

#6 Nov 26, 2008
Saint Rafael wrote:
Pope John Paul II had his opinion on the Death Penalty put into the Catechism.
I am not stating my opnion, I am stating the moral teaching of the justness of the Death penalty from what the Magisterium has always taught. Every Pope believed in the death penalty. Saints and Doctors of the Church like St. Thomas, have defended the death penalty. Christendom throughout the centuries administered the death penalty. God himself commanded the death penalty in the Old Testament. again.
The Catholic Church did not start opposing the death penalty until Pope John Paul II came along.
The Church started opposing the death penalty in the '90s for the first time in history. Pope John Paul II's teaching on the death penalty was a break with tradition, a novelty, and a new teaching. Vatican I taught as infallible, that no Pope can invent new doctrine.
I'm sorry Pope John paul II, but instead of your new teaching and novelty, I will follow the Magisterium of the Church and its Tradition on the subject of the death penalty.
Pope John Paul II,along with the bishops, were the Magisterium. Now we have a new pope and he teaches infallibly just as John Paul II and the previous popes did. This is not his invention. Reread the Catechism and the encyclical Evangelium vitae. These are indeed Church teaching. You're on your way to understanding Church doctrine, but you don't have the full picture and you could be taking what you read out of context. What I quoted was from the Catechism and an encyclical, official teaching, not opinion.
Saint Rafael

Los Angeles, CA

#7 Nov 27, 2008
kathy wrote:
<quoted text> Pope John Paul II,along with the bishops, were the Magisterium. Now we have a new pope and he teaches infallibly just as John Paul II and the previous popes did. This is not his invention. Reread the Catechism and the encyclical Evangelium vitae. These are indeed Church teaching. You're on your way to understanding Church doctrine, but you don't have the full picture and you could be taking what you read out of context. What I quoted was from the Catechism and an encyclical, official teaching, not opinion.
I don't know where you learned your Catholicism, but Papal encyclicals are not infallible. It is even possible an encyclical to contain error and the Pope is only infallible when he speaks Ex-Cathedra. Vatican I taught as infallible that a Pope is only infallible when he makes an ex-Cathdera statement or "speaks from the Chair". This is Papal Infallibility.

The last Pope that made an Ex-Cathedra statement was Pope Pius XII, when he defined the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.

Pope John Paul II never made an Ex-Cathedra statement in his entire pontificate. His teaching on the Death Penalty is also not part of the Ordinary Magisterium because it contradicts prior Church teaching on the Death Penalty.
kathy

United States

#8 Nov 27, 2008
Saint Rafael wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know where you learned your Catholicism, but Papal encyclicals are not infallible. It is even possible an encyclical to contain error and the Pope is only infallible when he speaks Ex-Cathedra. Vatican I taught as infallible that a Pope is only infallible when he makes an ex-Cathdera statement or "speaks from the Chair". This is Papal Infallibility.
The last Pope that made an Ex-Cathedra statement was Pope Pius XII, when he defined the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.
Pope John Paul II never made an Ex-Cathedra statement in his entire pontificate. His teaching on the Death Penalty is also not part of the Ordinary Magisterium because it contradicts prior Church teaching on the Death Penalty.
Ex cathedra statements are teachings from the EXTRAORDINARY magisterium (the Pope). Other teachings are from the ORDINARY magisterium (the Bishops in union with the Pope). Both are infallible. There are 2 ex cathedra pronouncements in the history of the Church: the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. That would exclude belief in the Trinity, the Ten Commandments, the Resurrection, the Real Presence, etc. There are many kinds of teachings: ex cathedra, de fidei, veritates catholicae, sententia fidei proxima, sententia certa, sententia communia, and sententia probabilis.
kathy

United States

#9 Nov 27, 2008
These teachings are to receive the submission of the mind and the will of the faithful. The Catechism of the Catholic contain the basic teachings of the Church.(By the way, my pamphlet of the Statement on the Assumption by Pius XII didn't contain the words "ex cathedra.")

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