Just a move for lower wages

Just a move for lower wages

There are 21 comments on the Evening Sun story from May 18, 2011, titled Just a move for lower wages. In it, Evening Sun reports that:

In response to the position of state Sen. Alloway and state Rep. Moul regarding prevailing wages and the hope to change unfair labor laws in Pennsylvania, in some cases their proposal would also have to overrule the federal prevailing wage legislation if federal dollars are involved and the dollar amount exceeds certain amounts.

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Jack

Gwynn Oak, MD

#1 May 18, 2011
That is one way to look at it, but I believe it is the wrong way. Every contract at the federal, state or municipal level, should be let competitively in order to get work done for the best possible value. That promotes fiscal responsibility, allows for more projects without raising the taxes on everyone.
Lower Moul salary

East Berlin, PA

#2 May 18, 2011
He gets the same taxpayer paid salary and benefits as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh legislators even though he lives in Adams County. But it won't happen - he is always in support of changing everyone else's salary and benefits but not his.

Since: Jan 09

Hanover

#3 May 18, 2011
Sounds like something written by a union person!
Anonymous

Hanover, PA

#4 May 19, 2011
JustMyHonestOpinion wrote:
Sounds like something written by a union person!
Yeah, tell me about it.

So what is this "livable wage" that the pro-union people always bring up? You can certainly live on $9 an hour. You might not get everything that you feel you are entitled to like your neighbors have, but you're not entitled anyway.

No one ever has an answer to what a "livable wage" is. You should not get $17 an hour to sweep floors you lazy slackers.
Curious

Hanover, PA

#5 May 20, 2011
Not to mention the added cost burden to the taxpayer for fixing - well for the sake of argument - an elementary school or a stadium renovation. This is York and Adams county - not Philadelphia.
Do the Math

Newport, PA

#6 May 21, 2011
Anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, tell me about it.
So what is this "livable wage" that the pro-union people always bring up? You can certainly live on $9 an hour. You might not get everything that you feel you are entitled to like your neighbors have, but you're not entitled anyway.
No one ever has an answer to what a "livable wage" is. You should not get $17 an hour to sweep floors you lazy slackers.
Here's a challenge - lest you are too lazy to attempt it - do the math. Nine dollars per hour x a 40 hour work week =$360 gross pay. Subtract 20% payroll deductions (not including health insurance premiums) and the net weekly pay is $288.00 - which adds up to $1,248.00 per month.

Now, using the most conservative figures, let's factor in a few basic (and I mean basic) living costs. Assuming, of course, that the "lazy, floor sweeping slackers" are single because if they have children it wouldn't be unreasonable to double or even triple the costs.

Rent:$650.00 per month. Electric/water/sewer/trash:$11 0.00 per month. Car insurance:$80.00 per month. Gasoline:$200.00 per month. Food:$340.00 per month. Just the basics, right - no clothing, medical costs/prescriptions, or other sundry expenditures? The basic expenses total $1,380.00. Subtract the costs from the net income and you are left with a deficit of $132.00. More than $100 short each month - just on the basics.

Many hard working, honest and decent people in our area put forth their best efforts each and every day for $9.00/hour or less. Willfully ignorant persons such as your self are not worthy of the many services they provide to the community at large. They work in banks, offices, human services:child care/elder care, retail establishments, grocery stores, restaurants, food processing plants, and factories. Service with a smile - tolerating hateful, nasty, mean-spirited customers such as yourself because it's part of the job. Shame on you or anyone else who believes their labors are not worth a living wage.
Disgusted

Carlisle, PA

#7 May 21, 2011
Do the Math wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a challenge - lest you are too lazy to attempt it - do the math. Nine dollars per hour x a 40 hour work week =$360 gross pay. Subtract 20% payroll deductions (not including health insurance premiums) and the net weekly pay is $288.00 - which adds up to $1,248.00 per month.
Now, using the most conservative figures, let's factor in a few basic (and I mean basic) living costs. Assuming, of course, that the "lazy, floor sweeping slackers" are single because if they have children it wouldn't be unreasonable to double or even triple the costs.
Rent:$650.00 per month. Electric/water/sewer/trash:$11 0.00 per month. Car insurance:$80.00 per month. Gasoline:$200.00 per month. Food:$340.00 per month. Just the basics, right - no clothing, medical costs/prescriptions, or other sundry expenditures? The basic expenses total $1,380.00. Subtract the costs from the net income and you are left with a deficit of $132.00. More than $100 short each month - just on the basics.
Many hard working, honest and decent people in our area put forth their best efforts each and every day for $9.00/hour or less. Willfully ignorant persons such as your self are not worthy of the many services they provide to the community at large. They work in banks, offices, human services:child care/elder care, retail establishments, grocery stores, restaurants, food processing plants, and factories. Service with a smile - tolerating hateful, nasty, mean-spirited customers such as yourself because it's part of the job. Shame on you or anyone else who believes their labors are not worth a living wage.
Now do the math for us on how much someone at this income level will receive from countless federal and state assistance programs.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#8 May 21, 2011
Do the Math wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a challenge - lest you are too lazy to attempt it - do the math. Nine dollars per hour x a 40 hour work week =$360 gross pay. Subtract 20% payroll deductions (not including health insurance premiums) and the net weekly pay is $288.00 - which adds up to $1,248.00 per month.
Now, using the most conservative figures, let's factor in a few basic (and I mean basic) living costs. Assuming, of course, that the "lazy, floor sweeping slackers" are single because if they have children it wouldn't be unreasonable to double or even triple the costs.
Rent:$650.00 per month. Electric/water/sewer/trash:$11 0.00 per month. Car insurance:$80.00 per month. Gasoline:$200.00 per month. Food:$340.00 per month. Just the basics, right - no clothing, medical costs/prescriptions, or other sundry expenditures? The basic expenses total $1,380.00. Subtract the costs from the net income and you are left with a deficit of $132.00. More than $100 short each month - just on the basics.
Many hard working, honest and decent people in our area put forth their best efforts each and every day for $9.00/hour or less. Willfully ignorant persons such as your self are not worthy of the many services they provide to the community at large. They work in banks, offices, human services:child care/elder care, retail establishments, grocery stores, restaurants, food processing plants, and factories. Service with a smile - tolerating hateful, nasty, mean-spirited customers such as yourself because it's part of the job. Shame on you or anyone else who believes their labors are not worth a living wage.
Guess this person needs to:
A. Get a roomate to spread the rental cost.
B. Get a better education
C. If they have kids stress hard work in school rather than being a slacker so this is not perpetuated.
D. Work hard at their $9 an hour job and strive for better either with their current company or elsewhere.
E. Get a second 20 hour per week job.
F. All of the above
Anonymous

Hanover, PA

#9 May 21, 2011
Do the Math wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a challenge - lest you are too lazy to attempt it - do the math. Nine dollars per hour x a 40 hour work week =$360 gross pay. Subtract 20% payroll deductions (not including health insurance premiums) and the net weekly pay is $288.00 - which adds up to $1,248.00 per month.
Now, using the most conservative figures, let's factor in a few basic (and I mean basic) living costs. Assuming, of course, that the "lazy, floor sweeping slackers" are single because if they have children it wouldn't be unreasonable to double or even triple the costs.
Rent:$650.00 per month. Electric/water/sewer/trash:$11 0.00 per month. Car insurance:$80.00 per month. Gasoline:$200.00 per month. Food:$340.00 per month. Just the basics, right - no clothing, medical costs/prescriptions, or other sundry expenditures? The basic expenses total $1,380.00. Subtract the costs from the net income and you are left with a deficit of $132.00. More than $100 short each month - just on the basics.
Many hard working, honest and decent people in our area put forth their best efforts each and every day for $9.00/hour or less. Willfully ignorant persons such as your self are not worthy of the many services they provide to the community at large. They work in banks, offices, human services:child care/elder care, retail establishments, grocery stores, restaurants, food processing plants, and factories. Service with a smile - tolerating hateful, nasty, mean-spirited customers such as yourself because it's part of the job. Shame on you or anyone else who believes their labors are not worth a living wage.
Not only what the other two said, but your figures are WILDLY off base. In a situation like the one you describe, there would likely be two incomes. I know for a fact that those figures are not conservative because I know what I spend. If you have one income, you have no need for any apartment that cost $650 a month.

Car insurance: Mine is $38 a month.

I spend maybe $80 a month on gas.

Food:$200 a month.

IT'S CALLED BUDGETING AND MANAGING YOUR MONEY. If you have kids, you're getting assistance and help. And probably child support.

Not too long ago, I myself lived off of $9-10/hour bracket. I paid all my bills and still had money left over and could save. Don't tell me I don't know how it is because I most certainly do. I didn't get help from anyone, either.

I'm not in that situation anymore but I could live off of that wage again now if I had to.

So, what is a livable wage? You want to be a cashier that makes $16 an hour?

Get bent.
Anonymous

Hanover, PA

#10 May 21, 2011
Do the Math wrote:
<quoted text>
Many hard working, honest and decent people in our area put forth their best efforts each and every day for $9.00/hour or less. Willfully ignorant persons such as your self are not worthy of the many services they provide to the community at large. They work in banks, offices, human services:child care/elder care, retail establishments, grocery stores, restaurants, food processing plants, and factories. Service with a smile - tolerating hateful, nasty, mean-spirited customers such as yourself because it's part of the job. Shame on you or anyone else who believes their labors are not worth a living wage.
Here's the thing, if you're hard working you won't be stuck and stay at freaking minimum wage. If you were smart, you'd be looking at better opportunities. I'm an ignorant person yet I've lived through it and I've done better for myself by working hard and doing a good job. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day. Think I magically just waved a wand and I live on what I make now? You people do not want to ACTUALLY WORK and that's the whole goddamn problem.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#11 May 21, 2011
Anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's the thing, if you're hard working you won't be stuck and stay at freaking minimum wage. If you were smart, you'd be looking at better opportunities. I'm an ignorant person yet I've lived through it and I've done better for myself by working hard and doing a good job. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day. Think I magically just waved a wand and I live on what I make now? You people do not want to ACTUALLY WORK and that's the whole goddamn problem.
Bravo
There is a sense of entitlement among many in the U.S. today. Frankly, you are not really entitled to much in my opinion. Go earn it. If you don't like eating stone soup for dinner work hard and make enough money to buy a potato. That is what our ancestors did. They did not hold their hands out and have the government bail them out all the time.
Believe

Carlisle, PA

#12 May 21, 2011
Nile Grazowski wrote:
<quoted text>
Bravo
There is a sense of entitlement among many in the U.S. today. Frankly, you are not really entitled to much in my opinion. Go earn it. If you don't like eating stone soup for dinner work hard and make enough money to buy a potato. That is what our ancestors did. They did not hold their hands out and have the government bail them out all the time.
I agree with both of you to an extent. It is not always so black and white though. If it was as simple as working hard and doing your best to improve yourself great. But if you are a single parent it is difficult to even keep your head above water. How can you further your education when all your time is spent working to keep you and your children clothed and fed? What if you don't have trusted friends or family members to care for your children while you work? How can you afford to pay for child care and put food on the table? How can you pay for more education when you are stretching to put groceries on the table? Where will you find the time to study when you go to school? Child support??? Don't make me laugh. I was told just recently by someone in the domestic relations office that in Adams County approximately 75% of the parents in Adams County are in arrears or not paying their child support payments. In the personal cases that I am aware of not one parent is up to date and/or dependable in their child support payments. Not one. I am totally with you in the idea of government hand OUTS. These people will not ever make any improvement in their condition however without a HAND UP! There IS a difference.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#13 May 21, 2011
Believe wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with both of you to an extent. It is not always so black and white though. If it was as simple as working hard and doing your best to improve yourself great. But if you are a single parent it is difficult to even keep your head above water. How can you further your education when all your time is spent working to keep you and your children clothed and fed? What if you don't have trusted friends or family members to care for your children while you work? How can you afford to pay for child care and put food on the table? How can you pay for more education when you are stretching to put groceries on the table? Where will you find the time to study when you go to school? Child support??? Don't make me laugh. I was told just recently by someone in the domestic relations office that in Adams County approximately 75% of the parents in Adams County are in arrears or not paying their child support payments. In the personal cases that I am aware of not one parent is up to date and/or dependable in their child support payments. Not one. I am totally with you in the idea of government hand OUTS. These people will not ever make any improvement in their condition however without a HAND UP! There IS a difference.
I am for giving a "hand up" not a "hand out". We are now giving hand outs. Just read your last sentence! You beat me to it!
Stop paying for kids past a certain point. It is NOT a right to have children. It is a privelege and a responsibility so don't have them if you can't support them. Paying ever more for more kids on welfare is nuts. Suddenly birth control or self control would eke its way back into peoples minds.
The loafs not paying child support need to have their wages dipped into. Failing that JAIL and work release where their paycheck goes to the recipient. Make them room with a "friendly" roomate so their stay is not pleasant. They won't be late once out.
Believe

Carlisle, PA

#14 May 21, 2011
Nile Grazowski wrote:
<quoted text>
I am for giving a "hand up" not a "hand out". We are now giving hand outs. Just read your last sentence! You beat me to it!
Stop paying for kids past a certain point. It is NOT a right to have children. It is a privelege and a responsibility so don't have them if you can't support them. Paying ever more for more kids on welfare is nuts. Suddenly birth control or self control would eke its way back into peoples minds.
The loafs not paying child support need to have their wages dipped into. Failing that JAIL and work release where their paycheck goes to the recipient. Make them room with a "friendly" roomate so their stay is not pleasant. They won't be late once out.
I agree Nile, the welfare system is broken. How do you fix it without affecting children who's only fault is that they were born into a dysfunctional system and a society that seems to reward the benefits of welfare? And I am painfully aware of children who's parent(s) receive welfare yet they do not benefit one lick from the funds their parent(s) receive. No, it's not right, and I too am angry as hell that I am helping to pay for it in some cases. If you propose to cut off welfare to minor children after a certain age then what happens to them then? Some of these people do not think with a rational mind like you and I Nile. These children will just be a liability to them then. Does a child deserve this? As for child support I could spend all day with the excuses that are used to avoid paying support and the methods they use to work the system. Add that to an overworked domestic relations office and there are a lot of children losing out in Adams County. So is the solution to simply cut our losses and let the chips fall where they may? Maybe, but there will be a lot of innocent children hurt in the process. I would rather find some way to help these single parents become responsible parents that can be self sufficient and not have to rely at all on anyone. Unfortunately, it seems that common sense isn't very common among all parties involved in this mess.
Another parent

Gettysburg, PA

#15 May 21, 2011
Anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, tell me about it.
So what is this "livable wage" that the pro-union people always bring up? You can certainly live on $9 an hour. You might not get everything that you feel you are entitled to like your neighbors have, but you're not entitled anyway.
No one ever has an answer to what a "livable wage" is. You should not get $17 an hour to sweep floors you lazy slackers.
A livable wage in Adams County is roughly $30,000 for a family of 3. That's the point at which they can break even WITHOUT having to rely on governemnt assistance for things like paying rent, buying food, and having access to health care.

Do you honestly think you could live on $9 an hour? And you'd be able to pay rent, utilities, buy health insurance, purchase food, etc. without government assistance?

Ever wonder how many of your tax-dollars go to pay for medical benefits and food stamps for employees of anti-Union companies like Wal-Mart and McDonalds? Ever wonder how much less you'd pay in taxes if Walmart et al paid their employees a living wage and benefits so the taxpayer didn't have to?

Ovbviously some unions need to be reined in (the teacher's union comes to mind...) but until companies voluntarily pay a living wage, the right to form unions needs to be protected.
Fire Marshal Bill

Gettysburg, PA

#16 May 21, 2011
One thing that people are missing in this discussion is that you have to find a job that pays more than $9 an hour. I know some very well educated, and experienced people who canít find work in their career fields and are forced to take low paying jobs just to have some income.

And one problem with the assistance programs is that you get everything or nothing. When your income gets to a certain point, you lose all assistance. The system needs to allow people to work themselves out of assistance in a way that their income isnít suddenly cut in half.
Anonymous

Hanover, PA

#17 May 22, 2011
Another parent wrote:
<quoted text>
A livable wage in Adams County is roughly $30,000 for a family of 3. That's the point at which they can break even WITHOUT having to rely on governemnt assistance for things like paying rent, buying food, and having access to health care.
Do you honestly think you could live on $9 an hour? And you'd be able to pay rent, utilities, buy health insurance, purchase food, etc. without government assistance?
Ever wonder how many of your tax-dollars go to pay for medical benefits and food stamps for employees of anti-Union companies like Wal-Mart and McDonalds? Ever wonder how much less you'd pay in taxes if Walmart et al paid their employees a living wage and benefits so the taxpayer didn't have to?
Ovbviously some unions need to be reined in (the teacher's union comes to mind...) but until companies voluntarily pay a living wage, the right to form unions needs to be protected.
Apparently, you left reading at the door. Yes, I honestly think I could live off of $9 dollars an hour. It goes further than that. I KNOW I could if I had to because I've done it. That's all the proof I need. Yes, you can pay all your bills on it.

You just go on and on about a "living wage". It's not about being entitled to make a lot of money doing a menial job. It's called "living within your means".

You are dense and full of it.
Anonymous

Hanover, PA

#18 May 22, 2011
Believe wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with both of you to an extent. It is not always so black and white though. If it was as simple as working hard and doing your best to improve yourself great. But if you are a single parent it is difficult to even keep your head above water. How can you further your education when all your time is spent working to keep you and your children clothed and fed? What if you don't have trusted friends or family members to care for your children while you work? How can you afford to pay for child care and put food on the table? How can you pay for more education when you are stretching to put groceries on the table? Where will you find the time to study when you go to school? Child support??? Don't make me laugh. I was told just recently by someone in the domestic relations office that in Adams County approximately 75% of the parents in Adams County are in arrears or not paying their child support payments. In the personal cases that I am aware of not one parent is up to date and/or dependable in their child support payments. Not one. I am totally with you in the idea of government hand OUTS. These people will not ever make any improvement in their condition however without a HAND UP! There IS a difference.
I'm not going to argue with any of your points except for the children business. Like I've said, my example was also for a single person. There's loads of federal and state assistance out there for people with children.

However, your child support views are out of line and sort of an archaic view. I'm also in this situation myself.

PACSES doesn't give you a choice to pay or not. They take it right from your check these days. If you work under the table, you either pay the amount you owe or you go to jail, lose your license etc. The repercussions are there. There's plenty of guys sitting in jail right now for it. I'm willing to bet a nice chunk of the YCP inmates are there for that. Your name goes into a "new hire" database that's linked to every state. You cannot run and hide from child support like you used to. All those "stories" people tell about it, it's more like they weren't willing to actually go to court and just say they did.

Child care, there's assistance for that. If not, the non-custodial parent is responsible to pay it.

Insurance. The non-custodial parent is REQUIRED to carry it and it's mandatory. Also, to pay at least half of it after your deductible.

Education. There's grants for single parents. There's online classes. Babysitters/family members/the other parent for the time to go.

Child support isn't something to snub your nose at. Someone also making the said $9-10 an hour will owe about $90 a week not counting all the other perks I've mentioned above. That's $400 roughly in tax free income a month.

I've been through this also, twice. The rest to me is make believe because the law is cut and dry and Domestic Relations are robots with no empathy. The computer spits out a number and that's what you pay.

This post is a horrible misconception and sounds to me the custodial parents you know are just lazy. There's a thousand options to all these problems.
Anonymous

Hanover, PA

#19 May 22, 2011
Another parent wrote:
<quoted text>
A livable wage in Adams County is roughly $30,000 for a family of 3. That's the point at which they can break even WITHOUT having to rely on governemnt assistance for things like paying rent, buying food, and having access to health care.
Do you honestly think you could live on $9 an hour? And you'd be able to pay rent, utilities, buy health insurance, purchase food, etc. without government assistance?
Ever wonder how many of your tax-dollars go to pay for medical benefits and food stamps for employees of anti-Union companies like Wal-Mart and McDonalds? Ever wonder how much less you'd pay in taxes if Walmart et al paid their employees a living wage and benefits so the taxpayer didn't have to?
Ovbviously some unions need to be reined in (the teacher's union comes to mind...) but until companies voluntarily pay a living wage, the right to form unions needs to be protected.
Also, I'd like to add, if your figure for living is 30k for a family of three. Hypothetically, two adults and a child. Let's say even both adults are making $9 an hour. That's almost 38k a year between the two.

"Ever wonder how many of your tax-dollars go to pay for medical benefits and food stamps for employees of anti-Union companies like Wal-Mart and McDonalds? Ever wonder how much less you'd pay in taxes if Walmart et al paid their employees a living wage and benefits so the taxpayer didn't have to?"

No, but I do wonder how many of my tax dollars go to public sector union wages, pensions and benefits. And I wonder how much my taxes would go down without the monies going to public sector union wages, pensions and benefits. That's just a flat out INSANE statement to make and imply that anyone takes more tax dollars than your unions. What a joke.

Unions are over with and are a thing of the past. We'll probably soon be rid of them. I hope that day comes soon, too. Keep paying those janitors in NY 120k to mop floors (more than teachers make, by the way). Nope, nothing wrong with unions here.

Without spouting off how corrupt and wrong unions are, I'm just going to say I can clearly tell you're an uneducated liberal.

Try reading a book sometime. Do your own research and stop screaming this bunch of bull from the rooftops.
Anonymous

Hanover, PA

#20 May 22, 2011
I re-read over the letter and I'd like to also add about the part:

"they're looking out for the business"

They want to chase businesses out. So then we have NO jobs and can't make ANY money. Businesses pay much more in overhead costs per employee than advertised. I'd hate to see what I would pay for my insurance if my company didn't foot most of the bill. Or taxes. And social security.

So I ask once again. What is a living wage?!!! You can live off of the federal mandated minimum wage if you absolutely have to. I am sticking to that statement.

This is a country of opportunity. Use your heads instead of spending your time crying about how slighted you've been by life because no one will just hand over $20 an hour to bag groceries.

There's always money. It's out there for anyone to get if they work for it.

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