Riding The Fuel Cell Bus

[Frank]

Kevin Miner wrote:

There is already a feasible, zero-emissions mass-transit vehicle capable of serving the general public. It's called the electric streetcar, and before General Motors bought up local streetcar lines and dismantled them, they served the public quite well, thank you very much.

The problem with electric cars are you need to make elecricity. We need a clean way to make it.

[Franklin P]

Frank wrote:

<quoted text> Thanks for the friendly advice but it is you who should do some reading. Some natural gas is a byproduct of fossil fuels, But the methane from landfills, sewage sludge and Manure can also be used. Look up anerobic digester and be truly enlightend.

I would take the friendly advice if I were you. 90% or more NG is from fossil fuel sources, i.e. oil and coal deposits. This requires dead dinosaurs, which are not renewable. The total amount of gas collectible from landfill/sewage-produced methane is negligible and while manure is a viable source, it is limited and the extraction technology is expensive.

[Frank]

You might be correct that at this point in time 90% of NG is from fossil fuel. But 100+ hundred years ago transportation was 90% horse and buggy.The first cars were expensive also. You have to start somewere. And by the way landfill gas and sewage gas I don't believe are limited, unless all us humans leave the planet. In that case we won't need to have this discussion.

[Kevin Miner]

Frank wrote:

<quoted text>The problem with electric cars are you need to make elecricity. We need a clean way to make it.

Absolutely, Frank. But an issue that often gets overlooked is that an electric engine is vastly more efficient than its gasoline and diesel counterparts. Thus, electricity is cleaner than diesel regardless of where the fuel comes from--even coal. So, from an economic perspective, electric engines make sense (San Francisco uses electric buses in addition to its classic streetcar).

This forum doesn't allow html tags, but I warmly invite you to look at teslamotors.com for more information. They are an electric car start-up company and they have outlined this better than I can. I have no affiliation with the company, but let's just say that I'm waiting patiently for their four-door model!

www.teslamotors.com

[Dave]

I think the legislators are right to grab at this opportunity to keep a fledgling industry in Connecticut. There are not very many reasons to live in this state. They're even putting houses in all the woods which we used to enjoy. Perhaps this is the golden camel that we've all been waiting for.

[xgolfer]

Let someone else spend the money and then in 2020 when the price gets competitive CT should go ahead and buy them

[Frank]

Kevin Miner wrote:

<quoted text>
Absolutely, Frank. But an issue that often gets overlooked is that an electric engine is vastly more efficient than its gasoline and diesel counterparts. Thus, electricity is cleaner than diesel regardless of where the fuel comes from--even coal. So, from an economic perspective, electric engines make sense (San Francisco uses electric buses in addition to its classic streetcar).
This forum doesn't allow html tags, but I warmly invite you to look at teslamotors.com for more information. They are an electric car start-up company and they have outlined this better than I can. I have no affiliation with the company, but let's just say that I'm waiting patiently for their four-door model!
www.teslamotors.com

Looks like a nice car but the milage is limited and the price is exorbidant. I have heard that the next generation of hybrids will be comeing out soon. It's a pluggin and you get the first 50 miles on all electric after that it would work like a regular hybrid. This would work for me, I wouldn't need to use any gas at all dureing the week because my work commute is under 50m and I could still use it for a get away car on weekends

[Sluggo]

Just because the United Technologies unit is located in Connecticut does not mean that the work will be done here. Just look at the Hamilton Sundstrand factory that USED to be in Farmington, is now located in Puerto Rico. UTC is a global corporation, with world wide employment of a quater million. Thats 250,000 for those of you that live in Bristol. Connecticut employment of the corporation is less than 10 percent of that. Being a Dow 30 component, shareholder distribution is also widespread. In plain and simple term, the people of this state have no link to the economic benefits of this project. One person does though, and his name is George David.

[UTC Power Employee]

Good point, however somewhat incorrect. UTC Power Fuel Cells are at least twice as efficient as directly burning Natural Gas. Thus, carbon foot print would be reduced.

Also, how do we transfer wind and solar power to a moving vehicle? Hydrogen is a clean trasnportable option.

Franklin P wrote:

If the hydrogen required to power fuel cells is produced from natural gas, why not just directly burn natural gas to power buses, save the huge expense. This is like gasohol made from corn - a wonderful idea for the farmers, but it still takes a gallon of oil for the energy to process the corn for a gallon's worth of gasohol; not very efficient, is it?
Why aren't we instead focusing on energy production from solar, wind, tidal and geothermal sources? If the government invested more in that technology we'd be far better off.

[Franklin P]

UTC Power Employee wrote:

Good point, however somewhat incorrect. UTC Power Fuel Cells are at least twice as efficient as directly burning Natural Gas. Thus, carbon foot print would be reduced.
Also, how do we transfer wind and solar power to a moving vehicle? Hydrogen is a clean trasnportable option.
<quoted text>

Wind/Solar--->Generating Plant--->Electric Vehicle = 0 carbon footprint.

[Poor CT Taxpayer]

Sorry, I cannot afford 200M today. Is there any way M.Jodi can convince King George to donate the 200M buses out of his own GREEN? The donation might be considered a "carbon offset" for last year's usage of the Gulfstream. Can you say legacy??

[Mike in NJ]

Mercedes Benz has about 33 Fuel Cell Powered Citaro busses in operation throughout Europe and in China. As I undersatnd it, some people will gladly ait to drive on a Fuel Cell bus rather than a diesel version. It may be worthwhile for CT. to contact Mercedes. Perhaps on e of these trial busses can be evaluated first before aking such an investment.

[Rex]

The Hydrogen Education Foundation is excited that Connecticut is considering investing in hydrogen technologies, furthering our collective progress toward a hydrogen economy. This investment would spark the development of a hydrogen infrastructure in the New England region of the U.S. With concerns over rising energy costs, government leadership – at all levels -- is needed to secure our energy future.
Connecticut is just one example, among many, of strong leadership at the state level. There are many other examples. California, for one, is investing in the development of the first hydrogen highway, including the investment in fuel cell buses for public transportation. The AC Transit system in San Francisco area has already deployed 3 hydrogen fuel cell buses. You can view the buses running in real time, monitor power usage and pollution reduction achieved by visiting their website http://www.actransit.org/environment/busdata....

These initiatives, along with others that adopt hydrogen technologies, help to reduce greenhouse gases, thereby improving the environmental impact from transportation. A recent report from two of the leading fuel cell manufacturing companies, Ballard Power Systems and Plug Power, confirms this. The report is readily available at Plug Power’s website at http://www.plugpower.com/news/documents/GHG%2... .

For more information about other hydrogen applications, hydrogen production methods, and the organizations that are working together to develop a hydrogen economy, please visit the National Hydrogen Association's education website at http://www.h2andyou.org