Pilots contract creates wrinkle in Am...

Pilots contract creates wrinkle in American Airlines' bankruptcy restructuring

There are 6 comments on the The Jersey Journal story from Sep 12, 2012, titled Pilots contract creates wrinkle in American Airlines' bankruptcy restructuring. In it, The Jersey Journal reports that:

For AMR, trying to exit bankruptcy without a pilot deal may discourage potential investors because future costs wouldnaA A t be known and a walkout would be a possibility, according to analysts.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Jersey Journal.

Master

Fort Worth, TX

#1 Sep 13, 2012
No wrinkle. The Pilots have two choices. Settle for a deal or have worse terms imposed upon them. The unsecured creditors will make money when AA comes out of bankruptcy with or without the Pilots having a contract. Matter of fact, they will make more money in the short term if the Pilots commit suicide and do not agree to a contract, because then the Pilots will not get a percentage of AA. Then when AA takes over US Air, that’s right AA will buy US Air, not the other way around, the unsecure creditor will once again make more money if the AA Pilots do not own a percentage of AA.
Now, would they like to know that Pilot wages are locked in long-term, say 5 to 7 years, of course because investors like long-term stability, but the short-term money is still way better without a contract with the Pilots.

Since: May 08

Santee CA

#2 Sep 13, 2012
Master wrote:
No wrinkle. The Pilots have two choices. Settle for a deal or have worse terms imposed upon them. The unsecured creditors will make money when AA comes out of bankruptcy with or without the Pilots having a contract. Matter of fact, they will make more money in the short term if the Pilots commit suicide and do not agree to a contract, because then the Pilots will not get a percentage of AA. Then when AA takes over US Air, that’s right AA will buy US Air, not the other way around, the unsecure creditor will once again make more money if the AA Pilots do not own a percentage of AA.
Now, would they like to know that Pilot wages are locked in long-term, say 5 to 7 years, of course because investors like long-term stability, but the short-term money is still way better without a contract with the Pilots.
You thought AA drug out talks before... Hey APA, we're a little busy with this whole BK thing.. We'll sit down after the first of the year... LONG after the first of the year. To all of you aviation experts out there throwing up the strike card. WON'T HAPPEN.... None of AA unions got released from federal mediation. The Railway Labor Act says you can't strike
Angry White United Pilot

Everett, WA

#3 Sep 13, 2012
Prost wrote:
<quoted text>You thought AA drug out talks before... Hey APA, we're a little busy with this whole BK thing.. We'll sit down after the first of the year... LONG after the first of the year. To all of you aviation experts out there throwing up the strike card. WON'T HAPPEN.... None of AA unions got released from federal mediation. The Railway Labor Act says you can't strike
No you can't strike. But like the nations Australian airline pilot's did in 1989, you can all resign from your jobs and simple walk off enmass. Putting the airline out of business as was done at Eastern Airlines in 1989.

The 1989 Australian pilots' dispute was one of the most expensive and dramatic industrial disputes in Australia's history. It was co-ordinated by the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP) after a prolonged period of wage suppression, to support its campaign for a large pay increase (which it quantified at 29.47%, though such claims usually form a starting position for negotiations).

The dispute began on 18 August 1989. As part of this campaign, AFAP pilots imposed on their employers (Ansett Australia, East-West, Ipec and Australian Airlines) a limitation on the hours they were prepared to work, arguing that if they were to be treated in exactly the same way as other employee groups (the stance adopted by the Government), their work conditions should also be the same. This initially took the form of making themselves available for flying duties only within the normal office working hours of 9am to 5pm.

The dispute severely disrupted domestic air travel in Australia and had a major detrimental impact on the tourism industry and many other businesses. The Royal Australian Air Force provided some limited domestic air services at the time to ease the impact of the strike. For a while, some overseas airlines operated charter 737 aircraft in east coast routes, and travel between Perth and Sydney was via Singapore, using international flights. The dispute was superficially resolved after the mass resignation of a significant number of domestic airline pilots to avoid litigation from the employers. The employers obtained significant support from the Labor government and 'successfully' recruited new pilots from overseas.

Ansett, Australian Airlines, East-West and Ipec no longer exist. East-West was a subsidiary of Ansett in 1989, and absorbed fully in 1993. Ansett itself failed financially in 2001. Australian Airlines was merged with Qantas in 1992. Ipec was acquired by Toll Holdings in 1998.
Master

Fort Worth, TX

#4 Sep 13, 2012
Angry White United Pilot wrote:
<quoted text>
No you can't strike. But like the nations Australian airline pilot's did in 1989, you can all resign from your jobs and simple walk off enmass. Putting the airline out of business as was done at Eastern Airlines in 1989.
The 1989 Australian pilots' dispute was one of the most expensive and dramatic industrial disputes in Australia's history. It was co-ordinated by the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP) after a prolonged period of wage suppression, to support its campaign for a large pay increase (which it quantified at 29.47%, though such claims usually form a starting position for negotiations).
The dispute began on 18 August 1989. As part of this campaign, AFAP pilots imposed on their employers (Ansett Australia, East-West, Ipec and Australian Airlines) a limitation on the hours they were prepared to work, arguing that if they were to be treated in exactly the same way as other employee groups (the stance adopted by the Government), their work conditions should also be the same. This initially took the form of making themselves available for flying duties only within the normal office working hours of 9am to 5pm.
The dispute severely disrupted domestic air travel in Australia and had a major detrimental impact on the tourism industry and many other businesses. The Royal Australian Air Force provided some limited domestic air services at the time to ease the impact of the strike. For a while, some overseas airlines operated charter 737 aircraft in east coast routes, and travel between Perth and Sydney was via Singapore, using international flights. The dispute was superficially resolved after the mass resignation of a significant number of domestic airline pilots to avoid litigation from the employers. The employers obtained significant support from the Labor government and 'successfully' recruited new pilots from overseas.
Ansett, Australian Airlines, East-West and Ipec no longer exist. East-West was a subsidiary of Ansett in 1989, and absorbed fully in 1993. Ansett itself failed financially in 2001. Australian Airlines was merged with Qantas in 1992. Ipec was acquired by Toll Holdings in 1998.
One HUGE difference from Australia, there are more than 8000 pilots who would be willing to take every job that walk out the door. Sure it was cause havoc for a short time, but long-term a mass walkout will be a very dumb move. Ahh, that means the APA will probably do it, because no group has proven time and time again that they are brain dead like the APA at AA.
aa platinum

Phoenix, AZ

#5 Sep 13, 2012
rumor has it delays across the system by both sets of pilot groups aa and eagle can you confirm Proust?

Since: May 08

Santee CA

#6 Sep 14, 2012
aa platinum wrote:
rumor has it delays across the system by both sets of pilot groups aa and eagle can you confirm Proust?
I'm not working right now because freloading 30,000 lbs of bags a day on average for 26 years tore up my right shoulder, but I would not be surprised. I'm sure maintenance is busy with all sorts of engine oil leaks and hydraulic issues. Safety First after all. That's what my experience tells me. I can make a couple calls if you'd like.

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