Editorial: Long Island must benefit e...

Editorial: Long Island must benefit even more from Broadwater

There are 40 comments on the Newsday story from Jan 27, 2008, titled Editorial: Long Island must benefit even more from Broadwater. In it, Newsday reports that:

The promise of Broadwater is cheap natural gas for Long Island from a new, reliable source.

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No kidding

Port Washington, NY

#24 Jan 28, 2008
confuse a cat wrote:
<quoted text>We must all pay to play: "there is no free lunch." For instance,the world's rush to embrace biofuels is causing a spike in the price of corn and other crops and could worsen water shortages and force poor communities off their land, a U.N. official said Wednesday.In recent months, scientists, private agencies and even the British government have said biofuels could do more harm than good. Rather than protecting the environment, they say energy crops destroy natural forests that actually store carbon and thus are a key tool in the fight to reduce global warming.Nor is the answer to our energy needs "blowing in the wind."In 1998, Norway commissioned a study of wind power in Denmark and concluded that it has "serious environmental effects, insufficient production, and high production costs."Denmark (population 5.3 million) has over 6,000 turbines that produced electricity equal to 19% of what the country used in 2002. Yet no conventional power plant has been shut down. Because of the intermittency and variability of the wind, conventional power plants must be kept running at full capacity to meet the actual demand for electricity. Most cannot simply be turned on and off as the wind dies and rises, and the quick ramping up and down of those that can be would actually increase their output of pollution and carbon dioxide (the primary "greenhouse" gas). So when the wind is blowing just right for the turbines, the power they generate is usually a surplus and sold to other countries at an extremely discounted price, or the turbines are simply shut off.
<SFX: snoring> How about rotors in tne Gulf Stream, pal? 24x7x365: day/ night, sunny/cloudy, windy/still.
ChristmasTree

United States

#25 Jan 28, 2008
No Broadwater! No terrorist targets in an environmentally delicate waterway which is protected by federal and state laws from commercial development! What fuel goes in your car, not LPG. What heats most LI homes, NOT LPG. Mandate energy efficiency for all new houses, drive less, and stop selling off our environment to greedy capitalists!
Jonathan Ezor

Brooklyn, NY

#26 Jan 28, 2008
ChristmasTree wrote:
No Broadwater! No terrorist targets in an environmentally delicate waterway which is protected by federal and state laws from commercial development! What fuel goes in your car, not LPG. What heats most LI homes, NOT LPG. Mandate energy efficiency for all new houses, drive less, and stop selling off our environment to greedy capitalists!
LPG (liquid propane) is not the same as CNG (compressed natural gas), which is what the Broadwater plant would be processing. Actually, I do heat my home with natural gas, and see natural gas-powered buses and vehicles throughout the Island. For that matter, the new fuel-cell cars can use hydrogen generated from, again, natural gas by home-based devices.

LNG doesn't spill like oil, so that's not a worry. Even if there were an explosion, the plant would be miles from either shore (and barely visible as well), so civilians would not be endangered. Given that Long Island is at the end of the current pipelines, our supply of LNG is higher priced and subject to significant vulnerability for the entire length of its travel. Broadwater makes sense, although more benefits for Long Island would be welcome.
ChristmasTree

United States

#27 Jan 28, 2008
Jonathan Ezor wrote:
<quoted text>
LPG (liquid propane) is not the same as CNG (compressed natural gas), which is what the Broadwater plant would be processing. Actually, I do heat my home with natural gas, and see natural gas-powered buses and vehicles throughout the Island. For that matter, the new fuel-cell cars can use hydrogen generated from, again, natural gas by home-based devices.
LNG doesn't spill like oil, so that's not a worry. Even if there were an explosion, the plant would be miles from either shore (and barely visible as well), so civilians would not be endangered. Given that Long Island is at the end of the current pipelines, our supply of LNG is higher priced and subject to significant vulnerability for the entire length of its travel. Broadwater makes sense, although more benefits for Long Island would be welcome.
You're missing the main point, Long Island Sound is not a commercial property, it belongs collectively to the states bordering it! Also, a newspaper article mentioned that NYC, the great "Satan on the Hudson" would get 50% of the total gas stored!!No commercial entities belong on/in public waters, period. Don't tell me that if that monstrosity exploded, either by accident or terrorist attack, that there wouldn't be severe damage. That's simply irresponsible. Joanie Mitchell said it all:"they'd pave Paradise to put up a parking lot".
Rotors in the Gulf Stream

New York, NY

#28 Jan 28, 2008
Ocean current energy technology project planning will need to consider species protection (including fish and marine mammals) from injury from turning turbine blades. Consideration of shipping routes and present recreational uses, such as fishing and diving, will be required when considering siting of the turbines. Other considerations include risks from slowing the current flow by extracting energy. Local effects, such as changes of estuary mixing resulting in temperature and salinity modifications, might affect species in estuaries
Michael S

Warwick, NY

#29 Jan 28, 2008
If that thing exploded, what exactly would be damaged? No one would even notice. Long Island sound does NOT belong collectively to the states that border it, and it is most certainly a commecial property if we say it is. What an economic illiterate.
Reality overseas

Sunnyside, NY

#30 Jan 28, 2008
LNG approaches the carbon emissions of coal when all the costs of getting it to the end user are included: freezing, transport, regassification, etc. Michael should know this, since he's a lawyer for the fossil fuel industry (we hack too).

what about the other costs, though? Confuse a Cat - or should i say Marcia Byrstyn from the League of Conservation Voters - you don't consider in your 'pay to play' scheme the costs to the people living where LNG is being extracted, who face military dictatorships and their repression.

The expansion of Biofuels should be opposed (has NYLCV taken a CLEAR position against ALL INDUSTRIAL LOGGING OF OLD-GROWTH FORESTS to facilitate protection against biofuel/agribusiness?). But the question isn't betw. destroying the 'lungs of the earth' or destroying the Nigerian people living where Shell Oil extracts fossil fuels.

True environmentalists and political leaders should be helping educate the public about the need significantly to reduce use of fossil fuel, promoting mass transit, etc.

This editorial ignores our real - and dire - choices as a human community and planet. Climate change will kill billions if it is not seriously addressed.

Lawyers, profiteers, and short-sighted politicians will suffer along with the rest of humanity.(Although 60 million bangladeshis suffering will be more immediately apparent, except on your TVs).
gng

Gardiner, NY

#31 Jan 28, 2008
I still say NO to Broadwater! And, BTW, I do NOT live in Brooklyn!
Michael is Sybil

Tucson, AZ

#32 Jan 28, 2008
I have a Bachelors in Physics, MBA in Finance and a Law Degree.

Man, you sound like someone who takes 30 minutes to order off the McDonalds menu. Just make up your mind and go with a #1 already.
Economics Major

Richmond Hill, NY

#33 Jan 28, 2008
gng wrote:
I still say NO to Broadwater! And, BTW, I do NOT live in Brooklyn!
Too bad, Brooklyn is a great place to live.
A dose or reality

United States

#34 Jan 28, 2008
Who is Broadwater? It is a limited liability corporation set up by Shell Oil and TransCanada.

Why do these highly profitable companies need to shield themselves from financial liability?

Yoy don't need the answer to that, do you?

So, let's summarize:

This is a sweetheart deal whereby, a PRIVATE corporation is given access to a body of water held in the public trust and whose value is priceless, allowed to cordon off huge swaths of boating and shipping lanes, form their own militia to protect their investment, and basically be given sovereign powers.

I return for this, they guarantee nothing to the public who owns this water (although they say each home will save $300/yr in heating fuel). And, due to the limited liability nature of their venture, they cannot be held liable for the environmental clean up when (not if) it is needed

You'd have to real idiot to think that anyone but Shell Oil, TransCanada + the politicians they've bribed is going to make out on this deal.
ChristmasTree

United States

#35 Jan 28, 2008
Michael S wrote:
If that thing exploded, what exactly would be damaged? No one would even notice. Long Island sound does NOT belong collectively to the states that border it, and it is most certainly a commecial property if we say it is. What an economic illiterate.
Michel: Are YOU in fact a lawyer for the oil industry, as another post mentioned? Your ranting, and I quote: "Long Island Sound does NOT belong collectively to the states that border it, and it is most certainly a commercial property if we say it is" sounds like lawyers arrogance. You attack me ad hominem, and then display your ignorance of federal and NYS law, which clearly defines the authority to regulate and protect this body of water! Take a long, deep breath, and hold it..
traditonalguy

Binghamton, NY

#36 Jan 28, 2008
We should be heating with electric power from the new hydro facilities in Canada. If they would build powerlines from the James Bay to New York City, we would have a way of moving to power that is not based on oil. Natural gas is not the answer. We need to exploit
the wilderness to the north of the US. There's lots of resources left in North America to use.
Long Island should say no to any plan that causes us to build pipelines or powerplants here. We don't want them here. We should buy what we need from outside the area. Let's keep the island the way it is.
Achtung

New York, NY

#37 Jan 28, 2008
Hippies, NIMBYS, apocalyptists, progressives, greens,luddites, radicals,liberals, anarchists,socialists, communists and environmental wackos all-embrace reality,adapt or die. Climate has, is and will continue to change with or without us.20,000 years ago Long Island was formed by a glacier . Long Island Sound was once a valley later filled with water by melting ice. Lakes Ronkonkoma and Success too are the results of an ice age. The "twin forks" on the eastend also were created by a glacier. Scientists believe the Earth has undergone 4 major ice ages-and a number of glacial and intergalacial periods.Climate changes are due to the position of the continents, volcansm, variations in the earth's orbit and the sun's energy outputs as well as atmospheric changes. Species and land masses have arisen and fell well before us. Chill.
Michael S

Hempstead, NY

#38 Jan 28, 2008
We should burn Hippies, NIMBYS, apocalyptists, progressives, greens,luddites, radicals,liberals, anarchists,socialists, communists and environmental wackos as fuel.
Michael S

Hempstead, NY

#39 Jan 28, 2008
Does anyone remember global cooling ? LOL
Joe Strummer

Richmond Hill, NY

#40 Jan 28, 2008
Michael S wrote:
Does anyone remember global cooling ? LOL
"The ice age is coming, the sun is zooming in
Engines stop running and the wheat is growing thin
A nuclear error, but I have no fear
London is drowning-and I live by the river"
Effin eh

Port Washington, NY

#41 Jan 28, 2008
Rotors in the Gulf Stream wrote:
Ocean current energy technology project planning will need to consider species protection (including fish and marine mammals) from injury from turning turbine blades. Consideration of shipping routes and present recreational uses, such as fishing and diving, will be required when considering siting of the turbines. Other considerations include risks from slowing the current flow by extracting energy. Local effects, such as changes of estuary mixing resulting in temperature and salinity modifications, might affect species in estuaries
Done any diving in Gulf Stream "estuaries" or driving ships through the canyons?

Geography and marine science isn't your strong point, is it?
veritas

Coram, NY

#42 Jan 28, 2008
Effin eh wrote:
<quoted text>
Done any diving in Gulf Stream "estuaries" or driving ships through the canyons?
Geography and marine science isn't your strong point, is it?
Actually the United States Department of the Interior is the authority cited for the environmental impact of such devices. Check out The Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Alternative Energy and Alternate Use Programmatic EIS (Environmental Impact Statement)Technology White Paper on Ocean Current Energy Potential on the U.S. Outer Continental Shelf.(423 KB)FYI the Gulf Stream brings tropical fish to the waters off LI each summer.
Effin eh

Port Washington, NY

#43 Jan 28, 2008
veritas wrote:
<quoted text>United States Department of the Interior is the authority cited for the environmental impact of such devices
Same shills who favor drilling in the ANWAR.

Watch out, little fishies! Stay away from those big, bad rotors!

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