From Evolution to Romney

From Evolution to Romney

There are 23 comments on the EDGE story from May 21, 2012, titled From Evolution to Romney. In it, EDGE reports that:

In the week since President Obama announced that he had ''evolved'' on the issue of same-sex couples wishing to marry, the contrast between Obama and the presumptive Republican nominee, former Massachusetts Gov.

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Christsharian Law

Philadelphia, PA

#1 May 21, 2012
The Obama Administration's announcements on marriage equality and on having university health insurance plans include birth control at no cost has certainly accentuated the fault lines.

And some of the violent rhetoric from the fundie preachers and politicans about electrified pens or hitting effeminate boys or putting gay people to death, as well as RCC Dolan's promise to offer a religious war against the President, seem to stem from these announcements.

The birth control announcement was pushed for by female staffers in the White House. The marriage equality announcement was pushed for by major, Democratic donors.

I hope these two groups fully understood the implications of their advocacy and were not merely trapped in their bubbles of privilege, as were those (Reiner, Newsom) in CA who pushed the issue there. Prematurely.

Maybe the Middle Ages' response from the so called Christian right wing will prove repellent to everyone else....
Christsharian Law

Philadelphia, PA

#2 May 21, 2012
By the way, someone posted Mormons do not believe in the Theory of Evolution, along with some of their other, uh, science fiction worthy beliefs.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#3 May 22, 2012
Christsharian Law wrote:
By the way, someone posted Mormons do not believe in the Theory of Evolution, along with some of their other, uh, science fiction worthy beliefs.
Actually, they do believe evolution was "god's way." ;)

They do not deny science the way many of the creatard morons do, they just work it into their religion somehow.

-Signed, an ex-Mormon
Christsharian Law

Philadelphia, PA

#4 May 22, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, they do believe evolution was "god's way." ;)
They do not deny science the way many of the creatard morons do, they just work it into their religion somehow.
-Signed, an ex-Mormon
Then people are lying about what Mormons believe. What is untrue about Mormons from this list?

He believes that Jesus Christ is Satan's brother.
He believes that God lives near a planet called "Kolob."
He believes in baptizing dead people.
He believes that Jesus is married to a goddess wife.
He believes that The Garden of Eden was in Missouri.
He believes that it was impossible for Negroes to go to Heaven before 1978.
He believes that Jesus has children from his wife or wives.
He believes that he is going to become a god.
He believes he will own his own personal planet after he dies.
He believes the real Christian God is not eternal but rather that He was once a man on some other planet besides Earth!
He believes he needs to wear magical underwear created by Mormons and he is never to take it off unless he is bathing.
He believes it is a sin to drink anything containing caffeine. And that even includes True American™ drinks like Coca-Cola!

God was once a man just like us but became God

God had actual sex with Mary

There is no Trinity. God is God, Jesus is the Son of God and the Holy Ghost is someone else.

ALL other religions are of the Devil

Blood atonement

United Order [WTF?]

The entire Temple Endowment [?]

The Garden of Eden being in Missouri

The sun and the moon are inhabited, because God would never let so much space go to waste.

The flood story and the Tower of Babel story are literal.

[You denied this one already.] Evolution is false.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5 May 22, 2012
Religious people do lie about opposing religious beliefs, it's a blood thirsty competition. I'll note which are myths, as far as I can remember, with a double asterisk (**) and question marks for unsure.

"Christsharian Law"
He believes that Jesus Christ is Satan's brother.
He believes that God lives near a planet called "Kolob."
He believes in baptizing dead people.
**He believes that Jesus is married to a goddess wife.- Actually, Jesus is busy in Hell trying to convert sinners.
??He believes that The Garden of Eden was in Missouri.
He believes that it was impossible for Negroes to go to Heaven before 1978.
He believes that Jesus has children from his wife or wives.
He believes that he is going to become a god.
He believes he will own his own personal planet after he dies.
He believes the real Christian God is not eternal but rather that He was once a man on some other planet besides Earth!
He believes he needs to wear magical underwear created by Mormons and he is never to take it off unless he is bathing.
He believes it is a sin to drink anything containing caffeine. And that even includes True American™ drinks like Coca-Cola!- Well, it's "anything that is a drug" but that is such a vague tenet it's up for way too much interpretation.
??God had actual sex with Mary
There is no Trinity. God is God, Jesus is the Son of God and the Holy Ghost is someone else.
ALL other religions are of the Devil - Technically, all religions say this.
**Blood atonement - It's the same thing as the sacriment.
**United Order [WTF?]- There is a belief that the world will be ruled by Jesus at the second coming for a "thousand years of peace" before final judgment.
The entire Temple Endowment [?]- See magic underwear.
**The sun and the moon are inhabited, because God would never let so much space go to waste.- Misquoted thing, I forgot the actual one though.
The flood story and the Tower of Babel story are literal.
**Evolution is false.

Mormonism is like the christian version of Scientology, really. Or it should be that Scientology is the Pagan version of Mormonism since Mormons were first.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#6 May 22, 2012
Oh, and the flood nor tower stories are literal, missed that one. The flood was rationalized as being the story of a local flood blown out of proportion.

The tower of Babel, and pretty much most of the bible, is considered allegory. This is why they wrote their own scriptures with more modern, at the time of writing, and up to date stories.

Really, if not for their bigotry, they aren't that bad of a religion. It's just they have a hard time letting go of traditions of hate.

As I said, they're a christian Scientology but not sue happy.
Christsharian Law

Philadelphia, PA

#7 May 22, 2012
Oh well, thanks for looking that over. It still provides more than enough to discomfit any Republican, Protestant fundie.

I know there are many religious traditions which do not consider other religious traditions to be of the devil. Or apostate, for those religions which have no concept of satan.

"God was once a man just like us but became God"

Scientology is the good touchstone, since both were started by con artists and both have gathered enormous wealth and holdings and power over their adherents.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#8 May 22, 2012
Christsharian Law wrote:
Oh well, thanks for looking that over. It still provides more than enough to discomfit any Republican, Protestant fundie.
I know there are many religious traditions which do not consider other religious traditions to be of the devil. Or apostate, for those religions which have no concept of satan.
"God was once a man just like us but became God"
Scientology is the good touchstone, since both were started by con artists and both have gathered enormous wealth and holdings and power over their adherents.
As I said, their bigotry is well known, and they don't hide it like they use to. So I don't want one as a president, anymore than I would want Kent Hovind as president. But really, their beliefs otherwise are no more insane than any other religion now.
Christsharian Law

Philadelphia, PA

#9 May 22, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
But really, their beliefs otherwise are no more insane than any other religion now.
Right, and I disagree. Mormons beliefs are more insane. Not allowing black clergy and whatever other crap they thought about black people until 1978 is worse than other religions. Magic underpants is more freeeky than other religions. Being started by an historically known con man is freeekier than jesus or buddha or muhammiid._Lying about_ the direct and proxy funding of bigoted political campaigns is weird. Baptizing the dead members of other religions is off the charts. The incorporation of notions that are more science fiction than ancient myth is crazier than what other mainstream religions do, although they're plenty nutty if taken literally, too. The reliance on guarding parts of their belief system from non adherents is a cult warning sign. Saying the church elders are literal prophets is bizarre.(Not even the RCC unambiguously goes that far with the Pope.) Shunning those who question is also a cult warning sign. Keeping years of food and water in the basement for years is more wacko survivalist sounding than anything.

Nice you got out before their systemic homophobia killed you.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#10 May 23, 2012
Christsharian Law wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, and I disagree. Mormons beliefs are more insane. Not allowing black clergy and whatever other crap they thought about black people until 1978 is worse than other religions. Magic underpants is more freeeky than other religions. Being started by an historically known con man is freeekier than jesus or buddha or muhammiid._Lying about_ the direct and proxy funding of bigoted political campaigns is weird. Baptizing the dead members of other religions is off the charts. The incorporation of notions that are more science fiction than ancient myth is crazier than what other mainstream religions do, although they're plenty nutty if taken literally, too. The reliance on guarding parts of their belief system from non adherents is a cult warning sign. Saying the church elders are literal prophets is bizarre.(Not even the RCC unambiguously goes that far with the Pope.) Shunning those who question is also a cult warning sign. Keeping years of food and water in the basement for years is more wacko survivalist sounding than anything.
Nice you got out before their systemic homophobia killed you.
I was not in danger, my father was. My father was also the reason I saw their hatred so well.

Their bigotry is not that different, even today there are many churches with a lot of racially based bigotry that makes the Mormons look tame. As I said, they are not that different.
Latter Day Taints

Philadelphia, PA

#11 May 23, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Their bigotry is not that different, even today there are many churches with a lot of racially based bigotry that makes the Mormons look tame. As I said, they are not that different.
Well I put a whole paragraph of how the Mormons are different, unless you're talking Scientology or J. Witnesses or something. They're different.
And I can't think of a religion in the US which had as official dogma this stuff about black people as late as 1978. There are scattered white supremacist xstains, but that ain't xstain dogma and hasn't been for a long time.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#12 May 23, 2012
Latter Day Taints wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I put a whole paragraph of how the Mormons are different, unless you're talking Scientology or J. Witnesses or something. They're different.
And I can't think of a religion in the US which had as official dogma this stuff about black people as late as 1978. There are scattered white supremacist xstains, but that ain't xstain dogma and hasn't been for a long time.
Really? The Mormon uber-powered extra terrestrial mythology is more crazy than a zombie who is the god that made the problem which made him have to be sacrificed to himself, which was not really a sacrifice since he came back to life anyway?

Aliens are believable at least.
Latter Day Taints

Philadelphia, PA

#13 May 23, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? The Mormon uber-powered extra terrestrial mythology is more crazy than a zombie who is the god that made the problem which made him have to be sacrificed to himself, which was not really a sacrifice since he came back to life anyway?
Aliens are believable at least.
Yes. Modern day science fiction elements, founded by an historically known con artist, magic underpants, baptizing dead people of other religions over their families' objections, the cultish elements I have already mentioned, etc., are weirder.

Regarding the zombie there is some overlap there between mormons and mainstream christians, anyway. It's not really a good talking point for you.
Latter Day Taints

Philadelphia, PA

#14 May 23, 2012
Oops, I left out that many of the non fundie christians take a lot of these beliefs to be metaphor, anyway.

Do Mormons in good standing do that with their dogma? Just take it all as metaphor? Not according to most of your answers to my long list of mormon beliefs they don't.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#15 May 23, 2012
Latter Day Taints wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. Modern day science fiction elements, founded by an historically known con artist, magic underpants, baptizing dead people of other religions over their families' objections, the cultish elements I have already mentioned, etc., are weirder.
Regarding the zombie there is some overlap there between mormons and mainstream christians, anyway. It's not really a good talking point for you.
Other christians worship a Jewish carpenter that probably did not exist and indoctrinate their children in brainwashing "Jesus Camps." Many of them believe they are consuming this Jesus every worship too, they also have revivals and leave unwanted litter about called "tracks." Then there's the denial of scientific research by many of them just because it challenges their blind faith. Catholics think birth control is evil.

I fail to see the how these two are any better than the other.
Latter Day Taints

Philadelphia, PA

#16 May 24, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Other christians worship a Jewish carpenter that probably did not exist and indoctrinate their children in brainwashing "Jesus Camps." Many of them believe they are consuming this Jesus every worship too, they also have revivals and leave unwanted litter about called "tracks." Then there's the denial of scientific research by many of them just because it challenges their blind faith. Catholics think birth control is evil.
I fail to see the how these two are any better than the other.
You avoided my simple question about mormons and literal belief. You're sure you're a former cult member and not a current one, right? It was not a difficult question to read and understand.

I listed three or four things about mormonism that are unparalleled, but I'm not defending literal beliefs in any nonsense, just to be clear.

Do Episcopalians shun family members on order of the Episcopal Church?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#17 May 24, 2012
Latter Day Taints wrote:
<quoted text>
You avoided my simple question about mormons and literal belief. You're sure you're a former cult member and not a current one, right? It was not a difficult question to read and understand.
I listed three or four things about mormonism that are unparalleled, but I'm not defending literal beliefs in any nonsense, just to be clear.
Do Episcopalians shun family members on order of the Episcopal Church?
No, to me all religions are cults. ;)
Mitts Gold Plated Tablets

Philadelphia, PA

#18 May 24, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
No, to me all religions are cults. ;)
They are not. Cult means secretive, shunning, authoritarian, centralized, sexually controlling and other things. It has a meaning, however hard to pin down.

Cult does not mean, "fabulist" or "mythic" belief systems, or that's not sufficient on its own.

Cults are about control. You cannot tell me Quakers or Episcopalians or Unitarians or even most US Buddhists fit these descriptors, no matter how avid certain of their adherents might be.
Mitts Gold Plated Tablets

Philadelphia, PA

#19 May 24, 2012
Oh, and you still didn't answer that simple question about how literalist all or most Mormons are about their science fiction BS.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#20 May 24, 2012
Mitts Gold Plated Tablets wrote:
<quoted text>
They are not. Cult means secretive, shunning, authoritarian, centralized, sexually controlling and other things. It has a meaning, however hard to pin down.
Cult does not mean, "fabulist" or "mythic" belief systems, or that's not sufficient on its own.
Cults are about control. You cannot tell me Quakers or Episcopalians or Unitarians or even most US Buddhists fit these descriptors, no matter how avid certain of their adherents might be.
The only difference I see is the secretive. All other traits, all religions have, though I will correct and say only organized religions fit it. One single trait off does not change it, and Mormons are less secretive than other christian religions.

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