Letters: False notions over undocumen...

Letters: False notions over undocumented immigrants

There are 234 comments on the Monterey County Herald story from May 16, 2010, titled Letters: False notions over undocumented immigrants. In it, Monterey County Herald reports that:

The widespread belief that undocumented aliens cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy is undeniably false.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Monterey County Herald.

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Caveat Emptor

Monterey, CA

#2 May 16, 2010
Amy Funt is the Past President and current school board member of Carmel Unified School District--a highly political district which manages to wring $20,000 per year per student from the nearly dry state education coffers. What is good for Carme, can't be good for the rest of Monterey County schools. This endorsement is a black mark for Nancy.
PGjack

San Jose, CA

#3 May 16, 2010
The problem with canceling human rights for American terrorists is that until they are proven to be terrorists they are just suspects. Someone caught in the act is an easy conviction anyway so there is no harm in treating them as the law dictates. Those accused of aiding and abetting or conspiracy might very well be innocent and their rights should be respected. Once we say that the government has the right to deny rights to anyone they deem to be a terrorist we are all open to that treatment. Why should the government not grab someone openly carrying a gun at an airport, declare them to be a terrorist and hold them forever. Once we;ve eliminated a persons right to trial and a defense what's to stop government from doing whatever they want. I thought right wingers were in favor of individual rights. Apparently that only holds true until they become afraid. Then they want the government to come in and absolutely insure that no harm will ever come to them. The destruction of innocent life, whether by a common murderer, a terrorist is a tragedy but in neither case should we abandon the rules of American justice.
bye bye

Hesperia, CA

#4 May 16, 2010
i know this artilcle is a lie. i have seen them collect welfare and wic and free medical care. these people who do not live in the states should not say that they dont. and then saying that germans who came here didnt learn english well i know for a fact that is a lie.since my grandparents on my dads side came from germany and guess what they did speak english,my dad knows no german and neither does me and my sisters.they also came legally and became citizens.my dad was born here.i am tired of seeing people write lies about the illegals and making them look good.we the citizens are tired of reading about them.we need to read about what the citizens want and need.you think its ok for them to protest and while they are doing that they can threaten us.how about standing up for the united states and its citizens.not the illegals that are here. go live on the border of arizona then maybe you will see what is going on instead of sitting in an office and relying on lies to write a story go to any welfare office in arizona and california,and in any hospital yjen you will see the truth.but then you are one-sided the truth can be right in front of you but all you will see is what you want and it isnt what the citizens want.

Since: Sep 09

Location hidden

#5 May 16, 2010
Caveat Emptor wrote:
Amy Funt is the Past President and current school board member of Carmel Unified School District--a highly political district which manages to wring $20,000 per year per student from the nearly dry state education coffers. What is good for Carme, can't be good for the rest of Monterey County schools. This endorsement is a black mark for Nancy.
$20k per YEAR??!? What do the students eat for lunch-caviar??
Concerned

United States

#6 May 16, 2010
Let's explode the propaganda contined within this article!

According to the CA Dept. of Education, there are currently 1.43 MILLION Spanish Language English Learners (Anchor baby children of illegal immigrants to the non PC crowd) costing the State Taxpayers approximately 12 BILLION a year to provide their free education. According to the CA Dept. of Corrections approximately 17% of the current violent felon prison population consists of ILLEGAL Immigrants costing the State approximately $900 MILLION a year to incarcerate!

So, not counting the untold BILLIONS to provide free health care in the form of crowded Emergency Rooms throughout the mostly predominately infested areas of ILLEGAL Immigrant communities, we are paying nearly 13 BILLION dollars for their education and incarceration alone! So, tell me how much money in taxes is collected from the millions of ILLEGAL Immigrants to offset this huge cost?

Let’s assume there are only 5 MILLION ILLEGAL Immigrants in our State! Let’s deduct the 1.43 MILLION anchor baby children in K-12 and assume a fourth of the remaining 3.57 MILLION (1.78 MILLION) would be of adult age and capable of seeking employment although ILLEGALLY, but earning under the table wages. If they were lawfully employed, they would each need to be paying $7,300 a year in State income taxes alone! Not likely!!!!

ILLEGAL Immigrants cannot be lawfully employed and therefore pay no State or Federal income taxes! So, how do the ILLEGAL Immigrants pay into the huge costs of their existence in our State?

Well, they do pay point of purchase sales taxes which average statewide to be 9%!

Wow, Illegal Immigrants would have to purchase approximately $81,111 of stuff a year to contribute to their education and incarceration costs alone!

Simply not feasible is it LIBS?
So, please explain to us, how do you figure ILLEGAL Immigrants pay toward the full cost of their existence while driving driving our state into economic hell?
Caveat Emptor

Monterey, CA

#7 May 16, 2010
Yes,$20,000 per year per student and $40,000,000 in bond funds in the past decade with declining STAR test scores from 2cd to 11th grade. Time to shift funds to more deserving schools!
copperpossum wrote:
<quoted text>
$20k per YEAR??!? What do the students eat for lunch-caviar??
Phillip

Salinas, CA

#9 May 16, 2010
Research by Professor Robert Sampson (Department of Sociology, Harvard University) showed that first-generation immigrants are 45 percent less likely to commit crimes than third generation immigrants. Rutgers economics Professor Anne Piehl found a similar pattern when she looked at incarceration rates. According to Professor Piehl,“Immigrants are extremely unlikely to be incarcerated relative to natives.”

At Florida International University in Miami, criminal justice professor Romero Martinez, Jr. has studied violent crime rates among Latinos. Prof. Romero says,“For the most part, places with heavy levels of immigrants, or a high percentage of immigrants, have traditionally had relatively low levels of crime.”

A study by the Public Policy Institute of California found that, "cities with large immigrant populations showed larger reductions in property and violent crime than cities without large immigrant populations." Los Angeles, which has the largest illegal immigrant population in the U.S., has consistently seen its violent crimes rates drop since the early 90's all while its illegal immigrant population has continued to substantially grow.

According to an article in the New York Times, April 5, 2005,“the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.”

“Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy.”(Tax Lawyer, Spring 2006)

“Undocumented immigrants living in the United States are subject to the same income tax laws as documented immigrants and U.S. citizens. However, because of their status most unauthorized workers pay a higher effective tax rate than similarly situated documented or U.S. citizens. Yet, these workers and their families use fewer government services than similarly situated documented immigrants or U.S. citizens.”(Tax Lawyer, Spring 2006)

“…[E]ach year undocumented immigrants add billions of dollars in sales, excise, property, income and payroll taxes, including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment taxes, to federal, state and local coffers.”(Tax Lawyer, Spring 2006)

As for "Bye bye," the numerous spelling, typographical, and grammatical errors in your comment indicate you are in need of a class in basic English.

As for "Concerned" in Elk Grove, can you corroborate your claim that 17% of violent felons in CA prisons are illegal aliens? Also, many illegal immigrants use fake Social Security numbers to obtain employment. Their employers pay the same taxes on those workers as they do any other worker.
Caveat Emptor

Monterey, CA

#10 May 16, 2010
An informed, intelligent post about immigration is most welcome--a shining beacon amidst the base, racist comments of others!
Phillip wrote:
Research by Professor Robert Sampson (Department of Sociology, Harvard University) showed that first-generation immigrants are 45 percent less likely to commit crimes than third generation immigrants. Rutgers economics Professor Anne Piehl found a similar pattern when she looked at incarceration rates. According to Professor Piehl,“Immigrants are extremely unlikely to be incarcerated relative to natives.”
At Florida International University in Miami, criminal justice professor Romero Martinez, Jr. has studied violent crime rates among Latinos. Prof. Romero says,“For the most part, places with heavy levels of immigrants, or a high percentage of immigrants, have traditionally had relatively low levels of crime.”
A study by the Public Policy Institute of California found that, "cities with large immigrant populations showed larger reductions in property and violent crime than cities without large immigrant populations." Los Angeles, which has the largest illegal immigrant population in the U.S., has consistently seen its violent crimes rates drop since the early 90's all while its illegal immigrant population has continued to substantially grow.
According to an article in the New York Times, April 5, 2005,“the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.”
“Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy.”(Tax Lawyer, Spring 2006)
“Undocumented immigrants living in the United States are subject to the same income tax laws as documented immigrants and U.S. citizens. However, because of their status most unauthorized workers pay a higher effective tax rate than similarly situated documented or U.S. citizens. Yet, these workers and their families use fewer government services than similarly situated documented immigrants or U.S. citizens.”(Tax Lawyer, Spring 2006)
“…[E]ach year undocumented immigrants add billions of dollars in sales, excise, property, income and payroll taxes, including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment taxes, to federal, state and local coffers.”(Tax Lawyer, Spring 2006)
As for "Bye bye," the numerous spelling, typographical, and grammatical errors in your comment indicate you are in need of a class in basic English.
As for "Concerned" in Elk Grove, can you corroborate your claim that 17% of violent felons in CA prisons are illegal aliens? Also, many illegal immigrants use fake Social Security numbers to obtain employment. Their employers pay the same taxes on those workers as they do any other worker.
The Fourth Estate

Saint Augustine, FL

#11 May 16, 2010
Concerned wrote:
Let's explode the propaganda contined within this article!
According to the CA Dept. of Education, there are currently 1.43 MILLION Spanish Language English Learners (Anchor baby children of illegal immigrants to the non PC crowd) costing the State Taxpayers approximately 12 BILLION a year to provide their free education. According to the CA Dept. of Corrections approximately 17% of the current violent felon prison population consists of ILLEGAL Immigrants costing the State approximately $900 MILLION a year to incarcerate....
How about backing up your claim with some verifiable data source(s)?

In 2008-2009, there was a total of 1,283,751 Spanish speaking English learners in grades K through 12, including those in ‘ungraded’ programs.
http://dq.cde.ca.gov/dataquest/LEPbyLang1.asp...

Where did you get your number of 1.43 million, and why do you claim that they’re all ‘anchor babies?’ Are you suggesting that there are no children of legal citizens in that number?

The 2009 CDE Fact Book states,“Although a California school is not required to inquire about immigration status, once the school knows a student is not a citizen, the student should be directed to pay the fee required by federal law.”
http://www.cde.ca.gov/re/pn/fb/documents/fact...

If they don’t inquire about immigration status, no valid data about such status can be obtained.

And based on data I can find, your prison population numbers don’t seem accurate.
From a report in the Modesto Bee,
“As of Dec. 31, 2009, California prisons had 22,173 inmates with an immigration hold or potential immigration hold, according to a Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation analysis. That represented 13 percent of the state's 168,830 inmates.”

“Inmates self-identify their country of birth, so the citizenship breakdown may not be entirely accurate, according to CDCR spokesman....”

“The most common crimes for illegal immigrant inmates are drug-related. The top crime as of Dec. 31 was possession of a controlled substance for the purpose of sale, involving 1,683 inmates with a potential or actual immigration hold. That equals 7.6 percent of the illegal immigrant population. The second most common crime is sale of a controlled substance, followed by driving under the influence.”
http://thehive.modbee.com/node/17806

Since: Sep 09

Location hidden

#12 May 16, 2010
Caveat Emptor wrote:
An informed, intelligent post about immigration is most welcome--a shining beacon amidst the base, racist comments of others!
<quoted text>
How's that $42 bil deficit going?
Phillip

Salinas, CA

#13 May 16, 2010
The Fourth Estate wrote:
<quoted text>
Your new to this, aren't you? "Conservatives" (a polite euphemism for "bigots") don't need facts. They have their irrational prejudices to guide them.
ROBOT

Santa Ana, CA

#14 May 16, 2010
Being as ILLEGAL ALIENS are in This Country ILLEGALLY, they shouldn't be collecting ANYTHING in government-provided social services, other than a ride back to where they came from.

But of course, when reading anything written by Crawford, one should consider the source.
Phillip

Salinas, CA

#15 May 16, 2010
Contrary to what Malcolm Citron seems to think, prisoners of war do have rights. They are outlined in the Third Geneva Convention. The Convention reads, in part: "The passing of sentences must also be pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples." The idea that there is any group of people who have "no rights" is not part of the American system of justice. Let's hope it never is.
Phillip

Salinas, CA

#16 May 16, 2010
The Republican Party is committing political suicide. "Consider that Hispanics make up 40 percent of the K-12 students in Arizona, 44 percent in Texas, 47 percent in California, 54 percent in New Mexico. Whatever temporary gains Republicans might make feeding resentment of this demographic shift, the party identified with that resentment will eventually be voted into singularity. In a matter of decades, the Republican Party could cease to be a national party." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
Phillip

Salinas, CA

#17 May 16, 2010
ROBOT wrote:
Being as ILLEGAL ALIENS are in This Country ILLEGALLY, they shouldn't be collecting ANYTHING in government-provided social services, other than a ride back to where they came from.
But of course, when reading anything written by Crawford, one should consider the source.
You are entitled to your opinion. I prefer to deal with facts.
Derek

Los Angeles, CA

#18 May 16, 2010
I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have
included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.


1.$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.

Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77


2.$2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http ://www.cis.org/articles/2004/f iscalexec.html


3.$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.h...


4.$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of
English!

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...

5.$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...

6.$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...

8.$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt...

9.$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their
children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/1...

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U.. S from the Southern border.

Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute,'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'

Verify at:http://www.nationalpolicyin stitute.org/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.re nse. com/general75/niht.htm < http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm> ;

14.'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.'
Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articles. html < http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html> ;



The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

More simply put, in just over 2 years without the illegal alien stranglehold on our economy, the current Wall Street crisis and the proposed $700 billion bailout would be paid for, without a cent of tax of US citizens!
Phillip

Salinas, CA

#19 May 16, 2010
Thank you. That was hilarious.
Just in case you are being serious, I checked a couple of your sources.
1. Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin’s 2006 paper "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly 1 Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants in the United States" came to some startling conclusions, not least of which were that there are 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in this country.
Schurman-Kauflin based her findings on a 2005 Government Accountability Office survey that showed 2 percent of illegals in federal, local or state prisons had committed a sex crime. She then applied that percentage to the illegal immigrant population at large. Voila! Instant endemic perversity! This statistical sleight-of-hand, however, withers by employing the very stats she uses. GAO data for 2003 (the most recent year available) showed about 308,000 criminal aliens (legal as well as illegal immigrants) were in American prisons; they constitute about 3 percent of the nation's 12 million illegal immigrants. If only 2 percent of incarcerated illegals committed a sex crime, then the 240,000 figure is complete nonsense.
On her Web site, Schurman-Kauflin offers online classes on female serial killers for $1000. For $400, you can talk to the Doctor herself for 30 minutes on any subject.
If you will buy a self-published, non-peer-reviewed analysis offered up by an "expert" who sells her services through PayPal, I have a bridge I’d like to sell you.
2. Jeff Rense is an American conspiracy theorist and radio talk-show host of the Jeff Rense Program, broadcast on US satellite radio via Republic Broadcasting Network (RBN) and Internet radio.
Rense's radio program and website, Rense.com , cover subjects such as 9/11 conspiracy theories, UFO reporting, paranormal phenomena, Holocaust denial, Zionism, tracking of new diseases and possible resultant pandemics, environmental concerns (see chemtrails), animal rights, possible evidence of advanced ancient technology, geopolitical developments and emergent energy technologies, complementary and alternative medicine among other subjects.
Renses's show has been noted as being among "conspiracy-oriented Internet radio shows that often feature anti-Semites and extremists" by the Anti-Defamation League, a non-profit organisation that opposes anti-semitism.
3. I didn’t have the time or the inclination to check the rest of your sources, but I assume they are of the same quality as Rense and Schurman-Kauflin, In other words, they are of no value (other than comedic).
Phillip

Salinas, CA

#21 May 16, 2010
It gets funnier. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, the "expert" cited by Derek in Los Angeles, got her PhD at Union Institute & University. That's an ONLINE university. See: http://www.myunion.edu/
Derek: Please post some more. You are a riot.
ROBOT

Santa Ana, CA

#27 May 16, 2010
Phillip wrote:
<quoted text>
You are entitled to your opinion. I prefer to deal with facts.
The FACTS are,ILLEGAL ALIENS are in This Country ILLEGALLY and they should be sent back to their own damned country.

and by the way, many of the Hispanics who are in The Country LEGALLY oppose ILLEGAL ALIENS.
cjh

Fullerton, CA

#28 May 16, 2010
Based on data from 2006? Much can happen in 4 years. Considering we have no idea how many are here. How do we know that data is correct?

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