Tiburon council: SmartMeters can't be...

Tiburon council: SmartMeters can't be stopped

There are 104 comments on the Marin Independent Journal story from Aug 26, 2010, titled Tiburon council: SmartMeters can't be stopped. In it, Marin Independent Journal reports that:

Tiburon town officials, residents and a Pacific Gas and Electric Co. representative agree on one point: Local governments cannot block the utility from installing radio-controlled energy meters throughout Marin County.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Marin Independent Journal.

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Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#1 Aug 26, 2010
Nice to see intelligence win out over symbolism. Smart work, Tiburon.
Calif PUC

Santa Clara, CA

#2 Aug 26, 2010
So Tiburon council...debate the PUC so they go with this areas demand not to install. That is the democratic way. That's your job.

Also, they do put out radiation....so that is a no go.

Lastly, ccome on, how many people are going to go outside and read their meters to monitor consumption levels...not practical. And jobs will be eliminated per this article.
Peter M-SMART METERS

United States

#3 Aug 26, 2010
The installation of Smart Meters by PG&E and the mandated use by PG&E is a direct violation of the rights of the individual to prevent access to thier property to remove an electric or gas meter that is currently working and not providing incorrect or inaccurate information which is either read by PG&E or reported by the property owner to PG&E. The rights of the public to limit trespass on thier property is protected by law and were people to post a sign on their property staiting "NO TRESPASSING WITHOUT CONSENT OF THE OWNER" PG&E will have been given the proper notice not to trespass onthe property without the consent of the owner of the property. I know the government has taken some of the rights of the individual but the government has not yet taken away the right of the individual to restrict access to thier property unless a court order is presented to the property owner granting access to their property. This can be demonstrated by the taking of property by a governmental agency (the right of eminent domain) for the benefit of a developer and not for the benefit of government with compensation to the property owner for the taking which has been ruled in various cases across the nation to be a violation of the rights of the individual and particular governmental agencies are prohibited from taking private property for the benefit of developers with no direct benefit to government. It is up to the individual to protect his or her property rights and I urge those who read this to take a close look at what is happening with the installation of Smart Meters and decide for themselves whether they want the Smart Meters installed and wether they will post a sign on their property stating "NO TRESPASSING WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE OWNER".

Since: Jun 09

Fairfax,CA

#4 Aug 26, 2010
Let's be clear, what Fairfax passed was a 12 month moratorium to give time to check out the safety, privacy and accuracy issues related to these devices.
Move to china

Burlingame, CA

#5 Aug 26, 2010
Why do I care about "detailed energy use"? I still have to use it. I still have to pay for it.
The bill already tells me the total I used. I ran my clothes dryer on Monday and my useage was more. I don't need a meter to figure that out.
This whole thing is about CUTTING COSTS!
Eliminate the meter readers.
(of course they will pass the svings on to us).
Jenson

San Rafael, CA

#6 Aug 26, 2010
More PG&E bullshyit:

"SmartMeters let customers view detailed
information on their energy use..."

Sure, if you scrap your current appliances, wire each one of them to special high speed connection, buy special software etc.

The meters transmit 24/7/365 from your house and your neighbor’s house.
This is in addition to all the other electronic smog that you are exposed to voluntarily or involuntarily.
Put a sign up on your meter.

"No Smart Meters allowed here. If you ignore this demand on our property please write down the company name installing them, the foreman's name, the job order #, your insurance carrier for liability and workman's comp and emergency contact info for the installers. NO TRESPASSING ON OUR PROPERTY!"
Jenson

San Rafael, CA

#7 Aug 26, 2010
www.emfsafetynetwork.org

These meters will replace your current meters and will allow PG&E to track and control your gas & electricity usage without having a meter-reader come to your home which saves PG&E money but is not mandated to go to lowering the prices you pay.


To get the purported benefits of smart meters, consumers must purchase their own communications devices, computers, high speed internet, special thermostats, appliance chips and other automated equipment. The cost of retrofitting or replacing existing appliances alone will be astronomical.

Without the expenditures, consumers will not see any difference from the new meters except higher electric bills.

Millions of these devices have already been installed in California, and thousands of consumer complaints are pouring in to the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) and to the media forcing the CPUC to conduct an investigation. A class action lawsuit has already been filed in Bakersfield.

Tiburon Town Council always plays it safe and goes with whatever development, new project or expensive industry sponsored thing there is; because Tiburon is where the corporate execs, developers and money men live.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#8 Aug 26, 2010
Peter M-SMART METERS wrote:
The installation of Smart Meters by PG&E and the mandated use by PG&E is a direct violation of the rights of the individual to prevent access to thier property to remove an electric or gas meter that is currently working and not providing incorrect or inaccurate information which is either read by PG&E or reported by the property owner to PG&E. The rights of the public to limit trespass on thier property is protected by law and were people to post a sign on their property staiting "NO TRESPASSING WITHOUT CONSENT OF THE OWNER" PG&E will have been given the proper notice not to trespass onthe property without the consent of the owner of the property. I know the government has taken some of the rights of the individual but the government has not yet taken away the right of the individual to restrict access to thier property unless a court order is presented to the property owner granting access to their property. This can be demonstrated by the taking of property by a governmental agency (the right of eminent domain) for the benefit of a developer and not for the benefit of government with compensation to the property owner for the taking which has been ruled in various cases across the nation to be a violation of the rights of the individual and particular governmental agencies are prohibited from taking private property for the benefit of developers with no direct benefit to government. It is up to the individual to protect his or her property rights and I urge those who read this to take a close look at what is happening with the installation of Smart Meters and decide for themselves whether they want the Smart Meters installed and wether they will post a sign on their property stating "NO TRESPASSING WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE OWNER".
You granted the right to access your property as a part of doing business with PG&E. If you deny their right to access their meter, they are permitted to discontinue service until the situation is remedied.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#9 Aug 26, 2010
Pam Hartwell-Herrero wrote:
Let's be clear, what Fairfax passed was a 12 month moratorium to give time to check out the safety, privacy and accuracy issues related to these devices.
It's clear. Fairfax doesn't have the authority to interfere with PG&E maintaining or upgrading it's equipment, and it's clear Fairfax doesn't get it.

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#10 Aug 26, 2010
Jenson wrote:
www.emfsafetynetwork.org
http://depletedcranium.com/studies-on-rf-radi...
http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/pdf/makin...
Jenson wrote:
These meters will replace your current meters and will allow PG&E to track and control your gas & electricity usage without having a meter-reader come to your home which saves PG&E money but is not mandated to go to lowering the prices you pay.
They already track and control your gas & electricity usage. You get to use as much as you want so long as you pay. The CPUC has plans for the meters...
http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/energy/Demand+Resp...
Jenson wrote:
To get the purported benefits of smart meters, consumers must purchase their own communications devices, computers, high speed internet, special thermostats, appliance chips and other automated equipment. The cost of retrofitting or replacing existing appliances alone will be astronomical.
Without the expenditures, consumers will not see any difference from the new meters except higher electric bills.
One almost immediately has hourly usage information available with no extra equipment - the primary benefit to the consumer and utility network. One can request installation of a thermostat setback for air conditioning and permit PG&E to optionally change the thermostat in exchange for rate discounts. The CPUC plans to authorize demand rates in the future, where discounts are available for usage off-peak. Extra gadgets will be able to give more options in the future once the meters are in place.
Jenson wrote:
Millions of these devices have already been installed in California, and thousands of consumer complaints are pouring in to the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) and to the media forcing the CPUC to conduct an investigation. A class action lawsuit has already been filed in Bakersfield.
Results of parallel testing (old vs new meters) so far have shown new meters report lower usage on average...
http://www.pge.com/myhome/customerservice/met...
Jenson wrote:
Tiburon Town Council always plays it safe and goes with whatever development, new project or expensive industry sponsored thing there is; because Tiburon is where the corporate execs, developers and money men live.
Maybe they can afford the smartest city attorney so they can get better advice than Fairfax.
II_M_Disgusted

San Rafael, CA

#11 Aug 26, 2010
BS on both sides...

Of COURSE PG&E is not installing these things for the benefit of the customers - no matter how much they spend on their letters and TV commercials.

They are to make reading the meters cheaper, and even worse, they pave the way for future "peak-consumption" rate hikes...

On the other hand, PG&E already HAS the right of trespass: How the hell do you think they read your meters now?

Also, unless you don't use a cordless phone, cell phone, or microwave oven, you're an idiot to be complaining about the "radiation" emitted from the new meters...

BTW, if you DO want to track down your instantaneous energy consumption, all you have to do is go out and LOOK at the meter! It shows both total Kilowatt-Hours, AND actual consumption at the moment... If it says 000.450 KW, that means you're currently burning 450 watts of power. Try checking it when your fridge isn't running, and all your "turn-off-able" devices are off, and you'll find out how much 'vampire' power all of your clocks, appliances, TV's and cable boxes are using. My own are about 62 watts...

And yes, you can also find out how thirsty your freezer, plasma TV or electric water heater is.
Free Lunch

San Rafael, CA

#12 Aug 26, 2010
Peter M-SMART METERS wrote:
The installation of Smart Meters by PG&E and the mandated use by PG&E is a direct violation of the rights of the individual to prevent access to thier property to remove an electric or gas meter that is currently working and not providing incorrect or inaccurate information which is either read by PG&E or reported by the property owner to PG&E. The rights of the public to limit trespass on thier property is protected by law and were people to post a sign on their property staiting "NO TRESPASSING WITHOUT CONSENT OF THE OWNER" PG&E will have been given the proper notice not to trespass onthe property without the consent of the owner of the property. I know the government has taken some of the rights of the individual but the government has not yet taken away the right of the individual to restrict access to thier property unless a court order is presented to the property owner granting access to their property. This can be demonstrated by the taking of property by a governmental agency (the right of eminent domain) for the benefit of a developer and not for the benefit of government with compensation to the property owner for the taking which has been ruled in various cases across the nation to be a violation of the rights of the individual and particular governmental agencies are prohibited from taking private property for the benefit of developers with no direct benefit to government. It is up to the individual to protect his or her property rights and I urge those who read this to take a close look at what is happening with the installation of Smart Meters and decide for themselves whether they want the Smart Meters installed and wether they will post a sign on their property stating "NO TRESPASSING WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE OWNER".
You already provided consent when you signed up for service. Good luck with that one - you should probably stock up on candles. If you're so in a lather about people coming on to your property then you could have had a meter pedestal installed at your property line (at your expense) which could be read from the public right of way so the meter reader didn't need to 'trespass', but you didn't so it seems that raising your property rights argument now is grabbing at straws.
Kevin

Foster City, CA

#13 Aug 26, 2010
I am a ham radio operator and a electronics technician.
I do not use a cell phone and am very worried about these meters.
But one can protect your family. Behind the wall where your meter is open the wall and install a large piece of metal and ground it. It can be a fine copper screen or just sheet metal. This is a Gaussian cage and will work.

FYI it can even stop the transmissions. Just do not put it over the meter.
Kevin

Foster City, CA

#14 Aug 26, 2010
Cell phone companies say they are safe. Ask the hundreds that have brain tumors behind their ear they phone on removed. It happens but companies still deny it.

So P G and E says 24/7 exposure to radiation equivalent to one 45-second phone call per day is safe!

You want to risk your children to this? Growing body's and cells are much more sensitive to microwaves it is not harmless.
Not You

San Francisco, CA

#15 Aug 26, 2010
Tell them you have a dog that bites. That keeps them off my property. I read the dial on the meter myself, indicate the numbers on a card they gave me and leave it by my front gate.

The next step in this greedy, evil plan is for them to start charging us different rates at different times of day. They can't do that with the current meters.
Snark Attack

West Jordan, UT

#16 Aug 26, 2010
Move to china wrote:
Why do I care about "detailed energy use"? I still have to use it. I still have to pay for it.
The bill already tells me the total I used. I ran my clothes dryer on Monday and my useage was more. I don't need a meter to figure that out.
This whole thing is about CUTTING COSTS!
Eliminate the meter readers.
(of course they will pass the svings on to us).
It is not just the total usage. They will start to charge you one rate during "peak" hours and another rate during non-peak hours. The meters will track what time of day your usage is. This is why everyone's bills are going up.

Now they will be able to charge you more and they will not have to pay the meter readers anymore.
Shh

Mill Valley, CA

#17 Aug 26, 2010
Fairfax just like to get into eveyones business, after all they are here to save the world.
I guess the pot club has no danger or emissions, or does it?.
Heck, it's not like they were telling us if you can wash you car, spary weeds, kill bugs or how to run the school district.
Shh, next will be to ban cell phones and Ham radio operators.
Ponder This

Novato, CA

#18 Aug 26, 2010
Kevin wrote:
Cell phone companies say they are safe. Ask the hundreds that have brain tumors behind their ear they phone on removed. It happens but companies still deny it.
So P G and E says 24/7 exposure to radiation equivalent to one 45-second phone call per day is safe!
You want to risk your children to this? Growing body's and cells are much more sensitive to microwaves it is not harmless.
Would you be kind enough to provide the published research (Scientific Journals) that support your comment about cell phone use and tumors?

I do not trust any company's propoganda, but I think we need to welcome correctly structured, independent, scientific studies that back up your concerns.
Mintilicious

San Francisco, CA

#19 Aug 26, 2010
Kevin wrote:
I am a ham radio operator and a electronics technician.
I do not use a cell phone and am very worried about these meters.
But one can protect your family. Behind the wall where your meter is open the wall and install a large piece of metal and ground it. It can be a fine copper screen or just sheet metal. This is a Gaussian cage and will work.
FYI it can even stop the transmissions. Just do not put it over the meter.
Great idea! I'm going a step further, though:

I just got a SmugMeter installed this week, and I called PG&E and complained until my throat was sore. My first concern is safety: I do not like to live in an EMF smog, and this device just makes it smoggier.(And to all the pundits who say that I should get rid of my cellphone, microwave, hair dryer if I don't like it -- well, I can't, because I do not own any of them! I still use the dial phone that I had growing up in the 1970's and I bet I can remember more phone numbers and addresses than most "smart" phone owners.)

Anyway, my last comment to the PG&E schlep, errr rep, was that since the meter was on my property I could build whatever I wanted to *around* the meter, as long as the face could be read. He paused and said, "uh, yeah, I guess so..." Then I described my new landscaping project: basically a nice, big tastefully-modern set of lattices which would surround the meter, but let it remain visible and readable by PG&E -- oh yes, and these lattices would be copper, maybe mylar. "You know, like a big Faraday cage" (a box of Gaussian surfaces).

He stammered for a moment and then said, "But then we couldn't read it". When I explained that the faces of the meters could still be read by an employee, he said, "But they can't be read wirelessly." Well, duh. He actually told me that if they couldn't read it wirelessly, they would *not* come out to read the meter (as they have done for decades), but would simply "estimate" what our usage was. A pretty crappy response if the real reason for these meters is to accurately track energy usage.

We'll see how that plays out. I can be very litigious when the need arises. In any case, PG&E may own that damn meter, but they sure as hell don't own the air space surrounding my property. And there's no law that says I have to make the airspace around it open for PG&E or anyone else.
Will E Brown

San Francisco, CA

#20 Aug 26, 2010
Mintilicious, you have too much time on your hands. If I was PG&E, I'd cut your power and let you sit in the dark.

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