What is the future of the HRM position?
justworkshere

Highland Falls, NY

#21 Oct 22, 2012
HRM's are not responsible for training. That is up to the Dept. Mgrs now. Been like that for over a year. A couple of rumors I been hearing that HR is going bye bye this year and they will have a central location to do hirings etc. Or if they do not go bye bye the will become hourly.
nedm

Pembroke, MA

#22 Oct 23, 2012
As stores have become less staffed there's just less of a reason for them. Heck after myloweslife was made the reasons to even talk to hr have probably been cut in half. If there was no way to get information about 401k's, health insurance and disability I could see keeping them. But information is free and open so it sort of nullifies this.

As for those on a higher level frankly few store level employees see RVP's, SRVP's and the customers frankly could care less.

If we factor out training then what specifics are required by corporate? I've looked up a number and frankly many come from supermarkets (food lion and giant)Eventually that just looks like favortism. Maybe supermarkets were the only major employers in NC (along with Pillotex back in the day).

How many levels does the company really need? In many cases those at that level have no clue what is really going on in stores. For example call button reports are not really examined by corporate. The ladder button in my old store was hit in an accident and taken out. That was at least 4.5 if not 6 years ago! It hasn't been pressed once. Don't you think they would have noticed that by now? An RVP sent out an email to my region in that "We aren't going to take people from departments this summer to help oslg this time". Only to have the sm tell us to do that right after it was sent!

There is no real feedback mechanism to ensure that things are really done to corporates standards.Who really wants to challenge a SM or market manager as to how things are done in a store and that they are not compliant?
just hired

Mooresville, NC

#23 Oct 23, 2012
Yes, they just do what they are told, they don't have our back. I cannot say what has happened or my location will be given away. Time will tell how things turn out for many in this store who seem to do whatever they please, walk around doing nothing, hiding from thier own departments so they don't have to work (DM's mostly not learning their departments and making associates cover while they are on the computer pretending to work). It's ridiculous, worst I've ever seen at any job in all my years of working.

And as usual Dear NEDM, what the F*** are you talking about? Your rants are not in any way based on the reality of ... any reality.
DMxMD

United States

#24 Oct 23, 2012
If I hear about a ladder call box, lack of feedback and accountability for stores, or about how HR fires people for harassment one more time I'm going to explode. It's like the same incorrect posts over and over again.

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#25 Oct 23, 2012
just hired wrote:
Yes, they just do what they are told, they don't have our back. I cannot say what has happened or my location will be given away. Time will tell how things turn out for many in this store who seem to do whatever they please, walk around doing nothing, hiding from thier own departments so they don't have to work (DM's mostly not learning their departments and making associates cover while they are on the computer pretending to work). It's ridiculous, worst I've ever seen at any job in all my years of working.
And as usual Dear NEDM, what the F*** are you talking about? Your rants are not in any way based on the reality of ... any reality.
This is in our store as well...but accountability starts at the top. We have a ASM that takes 4 hour lunches and our HR is late or leaves early when the SM is gone. They need to lead, not hide, or ignore people.
nedm

Bridgewater, MA

#26 Oct 23, 2012
dmx well that's thetruth with the call box. Call stores up and ask for yourself.

There is no feedback or accountability on the store level for sm's and asm's to obey. If a sm says something what specifically is there to counter it? Do you really think a CSA is going to call corporate about policies? Probably not. They won't because chances are they don't know the policies.

When I showed some policies to management they wanted to know where I found them and frankly they were scared in that they didn't want employees to be informed as they want docile obediant workers above all else.

Heck Nilblock gets performance pay and yet lowes has had YEARS of negative quarter on quarter growth.
Gamer Mike Alvarez

Schnecksville, PA

#27 Oct 23, 2012
Pedro Rodriquez wrote:
We have a ASM that takes 4 hour lunches
Are you sure you and DMxMD don't work at the same store? He hides from employees and customers because he has no product knowledge. He is a "manager", he doesn't feel it's in his job description to know the products.
HRM

Powell, OH

#28 Oct 23, 2012
just hired wrote:
Yes, they just do what they are told, they don't have our back. I cannot say what has happened or my location will be given away. Time will tell how things turn out for many in this store who seem to do whatever they please, walk around doing nothing, hiding from thier own departments so they don't have to work (DM's mostly not learning their departments and making associates cover while they are on the computer pretending to work). It's ridiculous, worst I've ever seen at any job in all my years of working.
And as usual Dear NEDM, what the F*** are you talking about? Your rants are not in any way based on the reality of ... any reality.
Can you tell me what a day is like for you as a HRM?
WTHNEDM

Oldtown, MD

#29 Oct 23, 2012
nedm wrote:
As stores have become less staffed there's just less of a reason for them. Heck after myloweslife was made the reasons to even talk to hr have probably been cut in half. If there was no way to get information about 401k's, health insurance and disability I could see keeping them. But information is free and open so it sort of nullifies this.
As for those on a higher level frankly few store level employees see RVP's, SRVP's and the customers frankly could care less.
If we factor out training then what specifics are required by corporate? I've looked up a number and frankly many come from supermarkets (food lion and giant)Eventually that just looks like favortism. Maybe supermarkets were the only major employers in NC (along with Pillotex back in the day).
How many levels does the company really need? In many cases those at that level have no clue what is really going on in stores. For example call button reports are not really examined by corporate. The ladder button in my old store was hit in an accident and taken out. That was at least 4.5 if not 6 years ago! It hasn't been pressed once. Don't you think they would have noticed that by now? An RVP sent out an email to my region in that "We aren't going to take people from departments this summer to help oslg this time". Only to have the sm tell us to do that right after it was sent!
There is no real feedback mechanism to ensure that things are really done to corporates standards.Who really wants to challenge a SM or market manager as to how things are done in a store and that they are not compliant?
With all due respect...what are you talking about? Are you talking about corporate employees or HR managers? What difference does it make if a HRM came from a grocery chain or a Fortune 50 auto carrier?
If the only function a HR manager served was to dispense paperwork then they would have been released years ago. The problem is, and I think someone else mentioned this, is you likely don't see HR on the floor therefore you assume they are useless and serve no purpose. You don't see the board members, the CEO, the share holders, the market analysts, etc. I guess they don't serve a purpose either. I would agree that HR managers at the store level shouldn't shy away from helping employees obtain information that they need when they can't find it but they're not there to wipe the a**es of lazy employees that will never take initiative and do things on their own.
A career in HR is useless if you only want to do administrate tasks. Maybe thats whats happening in your store. HR needs to be a partner with the store manager and work to develop employees so that the store (and the company) can achieve its objectives. HR makes sure that the store stays legal (policies are followed, laws are abided by --OSHA is big in a store like Lowes, employees are counseled in a progressive manner).
HR is not there to pamper employees. HR is not there to make sure that employees feel all warm and fuzzy inside. This is a corporation who is seeking a profit and employees are expecting to work and go home. HR is not there to remind you fifteen times a week to enroll in your benefits. HR is not there to run a register or put load away because you think they should since you have to do it. I feel sorry for your HR that you have this expectation of he/she.
Bottom-line, HR is a strategic partner and does so by leveraging the people (not PROCESSES).
Spanish Mike Alvarez

Schnecksville, PA

#30 Oct 23, 2012
WTHNEDM wrote:
HR is a strategic partner and does so by leveraging the people (not PROCESSES).
Another LEF philosopher (kool-aid drinker) that sets a poor example of a role model for employees. This person feels that are above the most important task of any retail store ... satisfying a customer and getting them to make a purchase.

Lowe's has enough wanna be facilitators among it's ranks. To simplify, they need more indians that can multitask and less chiefs with specialized job duties.

It doesn't matter anyway. Lowe's is nearing it's end. It was a good run, but all good things eventually come to an end, in Lowe's case ... the end is near.

Niblock et al has a golden parachute.. do you?
WTHNEDM

Oldtown, MD

#31 Oct 23, 2012
Spanish Mike Alvarez wrote:
<quoted text>
Another LEF philosopher (kool-aid drinker) that sets a poor example of a role model for employees. This person feels that are above the most important task of any retail store ... satisfying a customer and getting them to make a purchase.
Lowe's has enough wanna be facilitators among it's ranks. To simplify, they need more indians that can multitask and less chiefs with specialized job duties.
It doesn't matter anyway. Lowe's is nearing it's end. It was a good run, but all good things eventually come to an end, in Lowe's case ... the end is near.
Niblock et al has a golden parachute.. do you?
I no way implied that the HRM or any manager is ABOVE the task of interacting with customers and driving sales but that is not their main task. It seems to be a common theme amongst some line employees here that if all management walked out of the door that the store would somehow miraculously run just as well if not better than before. You need administrators and furthermore you need a team of diversified administrators (ops, sales, human resources) in order for an organization to run efficiently. Hospitals, government agencies, non-profit organizations all have their leadership structured in this manner and guess what...it works! I've worked at both the line level and the corporate level for long enough to know that HRM/OPS/SM are critical roles in all levels.

But go on, run your own business absent those "facilitators" and see how quickly things spiral out of control. Better yet, eliminate HRM since you think it serves no purpose. Break the news to your SM that they'll now be delegated all HRM duties and top of their duties already.

The company has stated time and time again that HRM serves as a partner and consultant to the SM. If the HRM is doing his/her job they should be the right-hand person to the person and leveraging the talent to drive sales and productivity. But I digress, perhaps those concepts (and structure) have no place in a store.
WTHNEDM

Oldtown, MD

#32 Oct 23, 2012
*right-hand person to the SM.
WTHNEDM

Oldtown, MD

#33 Oct 23, 2012
Spanish Mike Alvarez wrote:
<quoted text>
Another LEF philosopher (kool-aid drinker) that sets a poor example of a role model for employees. This person feels that are above the most important task of any retail store ... satisfying a customer and getting them to make a purchase.
Lowe's has enough wanna be facilitators among it's ranks. To simplify, they need more indians that can multitask and less chiefs with specialized job duties.
It doesn't matter anyway. Lowe's is nearing it's end. It was a good run, but all good things eventually come to an end, in Lowe's case ... the end is near.
Niblock et al has a golden parachute.. do you?
Less chiefs and more Indians? So....you're proposing that a store with 150-200 employees and a handful of senior managers is somehow top heavy? I challenge you to walk into any OfficeMax/Depot or a store like it and check their employee/management ratio. Most have at most 20-25 employees (of which maybe 4 or 5 are full-time) and there is a GM/OPS MGR/SALES MGR/4-5 Dept Managers. I guess their executive leadership is wrong too eh?

I would venture that most organizations with 150-200 employees have a senior management team and various department managers.
Professor Mike Alvarez

Schnecksville, PA

#34 Oct 23, 2012
WTHNEDM wrote:
"HRM serves as a partner and consultant to the SM."
"But I digress, perhaps those concepts (and structure) have no place in a store."
Sorry to burst your bubble, Big Shot...

You are working in a large hardware/lumber/building supply store.
Sadly, people like you and Niblock have made things far too complicated.

It's about selling goods and services to customers.

If you want to be a bureaucrat go to work at the corporate office or for the Federal govt.
WTHNEDM

Oldtown, MD

#35 Oct 23, 2012
Professor Mike Alvarez wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry to burst your bubble, Big Shot...
You are working in a large hardware/lumber/building supply store.
Sadly, people like you and Niblock have made things far too complicated.
It's about selling goods and services to customers.
If you want to be a bureaucrat go to work at the corporate office or for the Federal govt.
No...unfortunately running a multi-billion dollar operation is much more than that.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#36 Oct 23, 2012
WTHNEDM wrote:
<quoted text>
No...unfortunately running a multi-billion dollar operation is much more than that.
WTHNEDM is right. If you see no need for a management structure you've obviously been an $8-10 hr. employee your whole career. People don't hire and train themselves on the site they found the job on. Marketing and merchandising plans don't just appear. Safety and gov't compliance doesn't occur because you'd like it to. Sure, you can have too many chiefs and not enough Native Americans, but the problems aren't because of managers. I will grant you that there's imcompetent managers as well as hourlies, but that's another discussion.
Professor Mike Alvarez

Schnecksville, PA

#37 Oct 23, 2012
WTHNEDM wrote:
<quoted text>
No...unfortunately running a multi-billion dollar operation is much more than that.
I live in a rural area. The mom and pop lumber yard down the street does 45 million a year. They have less than 20 employees.

I bet that is more than what your store does.

It's people like you that have destroyed Lowe's.
nedm

Pembroke, MA

#38 Oct 23, 2012
"Are you talking about corporate employees or HR managers? What difference does it make if a HRM came from a grocery chain or a Fortune 50 auto carrier?"

I've looked up a fair amount of lowes corporate level on the hr side. What's it matter? Try favortism. Secondly it has little to do with the diy business. Heck if all retail is the same then why not hire sm's from walmart then?

"The problem is, and I think someone else mentioned this, is you likely don't see HR on the floor therefore you assume they are useless and serve no purpose. You don't see the board members, the CEO, the share holders, the market analysts, etc. I guess they don't serve a purpose either."

No because they make the decisions in terms of where stores go, product stocked, new product, sales in the future and so on. Then again most of the shareholders are major banks so it is just a parking spot for them. Capital management used to own much of the company but they sold it.

"I would agree that HR managers at the store level shouldn't shy away from helping employees obtain information that they need when they can't find it but they're not there to wipe the a**es of lazy employees that will never take initiative and do things on their own."

OK fair enough but they aren't bringing money into the stores themselves. Let's be honest here. If no one had to sell anything then why not just be walmart then? Employees are for what purpose? Customer service..why? Because it is a DIY store and a install store. As of yet there's no way to get a install on the website.

"HR makes sure that... employees are counseled in a progressive manner)."

That's a funny one. Employees knew more about the labor laws than HR. As for OSHA I could probably go into any store in the market and find violations. I remember the ops and LP going off on one another. Heck I saw LP rack diving for product rather than inspecting the store the last time I was in it, he's on a inventory crew!

"HR is not there to pamper employees. HR is not there to make sure that employees feel all warm and fuzzy inside."

Nor would I want them do. The last HR I saw at lowes looked and sounded exactly like Rozz from monsters inc!


"Bottom-line, HR is a strategic partner and does so by leveraging the people (not PROCESSES)."

Leveraging the people by what? Look what specifically does HR do that the SM and the ASM's could not share to do on their own? Think about it this way. HR is just one person and has two days off a week. SM's and ASM's pretty much have to be there nearly every day. It is more reliable to have them do HR matters as the coverage is much more. Two days a week is 104 days a year of lost coverage.Let's not also forget about two weeks of vacation so it's really 114 days.

"I challenge you to walk into any OfficeMax/Depot or a store like it and check their employee/management ratio. Most have at most 20-25 employees (of which maybe 4 or 5 are full-time) and there is a GM/OPS MGR/SALES MGR/4-5 Dept Managers. I guess their executive leadership is wrong too eh?"

BS. There's a staples right by my old store and I had a dept manager that worked there. If you think there's that many department managers you are wrong. Staffing at those stores is lite to say the least.

"You need administrators and ... efficiently."

So why is HD doing fine without store level HR? There are plenty of retailer without tons of layers of management.

"Hospitals, government agencies, non-profit organizations all have their leadership structured in this manner and guess what...it works!...."

Nope. I've worked for non profits that didn't have HR. What theorists do you know with org development? POSDCORB much? How about Six Sigma? New Public Management? You aren't talking about metrics of performance at all to validate your claims. Do you want efficiency, rights, cost effectivness or results? These are all very different and they often times reguard trading one for the other.
Professor Mike Alvarez

Schnecksville, PA

#39 Oct 23, 2012
exmanager wrote:
<quoted text>
WTHNEDM is right. If you see no need for a management structure you've obviously been an $8-10 hr. employee your whole career. People don't hire and train themselves on the site they found the job on. Marketing and merchandising plans don't just appear. Safety and gov't compliance doesn't occur because you'd like it to. Sure, you can have too many chiefs and not enough Native Americans, but the problems aren't because of managers. I will grant you that there's imcompetent managers as well as hourlies, but that's another discussion.
There is a reason you are an EX manager and mowing lawns to make ends meet.

How much do you charge for trimming hedges?

Enough said.
nedm

Pembroke, MA

#40 Oct 23, 2012
"People don't hire and train themselves on the site they found the job on."

Yes but lowes doesn't train employees. That's not me talking that's what actual management stated to me time and time again. The amount of training you do is up to you. Take a LC test, take ten of them, study the products at home etc.

"Marketing and merchandising plans don't just appear."
Word of mouth. Viral videos, youtube. Internet memes are mainstream..heck just watch Tosh.O or WebSoup.

Marketing itself is hard to use because advertising is pretty weak. People know when they see an ad.

"Safety and gov't compliance doesn't occur because you'd like it to."

Actually yeah the kinda do because I have seen businesses shut down due to violations. A resturant near me closed due to health violations (paint chips falling in the food, food sauteeing on the ground etc). Safety generally policies itself because if it is not safe then why do it? I did a steel set and worked with the Midee crews. Yeah it was obvious to me that if left to their own devices these guys would be missing fingers, eyeballs and feet but they were not the brightest of people either.

Sometimes management just nitpics things to justify its spot. Let's say sales are running beyond plan and everyone bonuses, no safety violations and no customer complaints. Why need management then? Ok what about the opposite. Sales in the toilet, safety violations all over the place, dozens upon dozens of complaints...why need management then?

A billion dollar operation is pointless when it is profit that drives a business, not gross income.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/20/busin...

If this slowdown continues of 10% loss each year in profit eventually it won't be a billion dollar company. If you are looking at this from a market cap well yeah it's worth tens of billions but that isn't saying much since even lumber liquidators is worth a billion.

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