Measure O: Vote on the facts

Full story: San Bernardino County Sun

Jonathan Abraham's recent effort to urge support of Measure O is again another example of the misinformation that has plagued the reality of the issue facing the voters of Redlands on June 8. Mr.
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1 - 16 of 16 Comments Last updated Jun 9, 2010
Craig

Hayward, CA

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#1
Jun 4, 2010
 
"Surely you were making a joke when you suggested that our City Council was 'using supercenters as a means of solving fiscal troubles.'"

Ms. Thurston, why does this strike you as a joke? Should Mr. Abraham have replaced "our City Council" with "our executive director of the Redlands Chamber of Commerce"?
dlorahdebarge

United States

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#2
Jun 5, 2010
 
Big business and high finance has cost us dearly...the middle class that is. Ms. Thurston the way things are going your job could be next...and that is not misinformation.
Small Business Owner

Pasadena, CA

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#3
Jun 5, 2010
 
It seems like the chamber of commerce is recruiting another big box over at the expense of their existing (mom & pop) member businesses. I wonder what would happen if every Redlands small business owner who will be negatively impacted by WalMart’s predatory pricing tactics withdraws from the chamber. Perhaps WalMart will fund and run the chamber.
JazzieLady

Pasadena, CA

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#4
Jun 5, 2010
 
It’s disheartening to see our chamber of commerce in bed with the city in trying to get WalMart “IN”. The chamber and the city should be looking out for the community which includes the existing businesses. Existing businesses spend money in town, WalMart will never do that. That sucking sound you hear near WalMart is our community money on it’s way out of the city.
dlorahdebarge

United States

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#5
Jun 5, 2010
 
dlorahdebarge wrote:
Big business and high finance has cost us dearly...the middle class that is. Ms. Thurston the way things are going your job could be next...and that is not misinformation.
I just read the business section of today's Sun. "Bright Future" big story about Walmart. 100 billion in sales worldwide. What does a mammoth do in North Redlands? What ever it wants to do...and reread the portion about the class action lawsuit about discriminating against women, that means even women on the chamber of commerce if they feel like it. How long has the suit been ongoing?

Since: May 10

Redlands, CA

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#6
Jun 5, 2010
 
I really do not get you people. You continue to try to confuse people with half truths not address the real issue. Wal-Mart will cause a net loss of jobs and will be a drain on social and police funds we need elsewhere. Wal-Mart is a drain on city resources. The site can be developed with a retailer than can bring goods and services that we really need and not be a drain to taxpayers. The right retailer can bring real jobs, real taxes and real benefit to the city. Wal-Mart is not the right retailer.

You say we do not have the option of shopping Target because it is located in SB County and outside of the city but you claim your Wal-Mart Supercenter will pull people in to the city. Most people do not see the city limits lines drawn and know that since it is near them, they have the option to shop there. Most of us prefer to shop local but what you are planning to do will changes our shopping choices forever.

Redevelopment areas have the option to allocate Tax Increment Financing to help directly or indirectly. Regardless of how you want to couch and hide the funds they use, retail development is indeed open to those benefits regardless of what you say. The taxpayers have no control over what you give away so we can only assume you will do what you want regardless of our wishes…since that is what you have done in the past.

The Mall and Mervyn’s issues do fall onto city responsibility. If you would have spent as much time and money working to bring those developments back as you have on rolling over for Wal-Mart we would have those issues fixed. If you had spent as much time working on bringing life and retailers to our downtown as you had in politicking for the Arkansas retailer, it would be in better shape.

You are using the Wal-Mart to try and find a short term fix to a larger problem. Admitting it is the first of 12 steps in dealing with it. You have done such a poor job with the money you have….why should we give you any more money to continue to abuse and mismanage? You are at it again and trying to pretend this will fix all of our problems. If Wal-Mart was such a good idea, why would they have to spend so much money convincing us? We are educated and know better.

People do not plan vacations on where Wal-Mart is located. A strong downtown is a better asset to use to bring visitors to the area. By keeping the city strong we can do more for the people now and in the future. You and Wal-Mart try to use the fear and intimidation factors to say police and fire will be damaged. Your policies and practices are part of the reason we have the problems we have in front of us, so having you behind me does not give me much hope.

If you are tired of having budget cuts, losing police and fire fighters, and having your senior centers cut….I recommend a YES ON O vote.

We can deal with a bad project today and deal with bad leaders in November.

Since: May 10

Redlands, CA

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#7
Jun 5, 2010
 
Seeing through the smoke wrote:
I really do not get you people. You continue to try to confuse people with half truths not address the real issue. Wal-Mart will cause a net loss of jobs and will be a drain on social and police funds we need elsewhere. Wal-Mart is a drain on city resources. The site can be developed with a retailer than can bring goods and services that we really need and not be a drain to taxpayers. The right retailer can bring real jobs, real taxes and real benefit to the city. Wal-Mart is not the right retailer.
You say we do not have the option of shopping Target because it is located in SB County and outside of the city but you claim your Wal-Mart Supercenter will pull people in to the city. Most people do not see the city limits lines drawn and know that since it is near them, they have the option to shop there. Most of us prefer to shop local but what you are planning to do will changes our shopping choices forever.
Redevelopment areas have the option to allocate Tax Increment Financing to help directly or indirectly. Regardless of how you want to couch and hide the funds they use, retail development is indeed open to those benefits regardless of what you say. The taxpayers have no control over what you give away so we can only assume you will do what you want regardless of our wishes…since that is what you have done in the past.
The Mall and Mervyn’s issues do fall onto city responsibility. If you would have spent as much time and money working to bring those developments back as you have on rolling over for Wal-Mart we would have those issues fixed. If you had spent as much time working on bringing life and retailers to our downtown as you had in politicking for the Arkansas retailer, it would be in better shape.
You are using the Wal-Mart to try and find a short term fix to a larger problem. Admitting it is the first of 12 steps in dealing with it. You have done such a poor job with the money you have….why should we give you any more money to continue to abuse and mismanage? You are at it again and trying to pretend this will fix all of our problems. If Wal-Mart was such a good idea, why would they have to spend so much money convincing us? We are educated and know better.
People do not plan vacations on where Wal-Mart is located. A strong downtown is a better asset to use to bring visitors to the area. By keeping the city strong we can do more for the people now and in the future. You and Wal-Mart try to use the fear and intimidation factors to say police and fire will be damaged. Your policies and practices are part of the reason we have the problems we have in front of us, so having you behind me does not give me much hope.
If you are tired of having budget cuts, losing police and fire fighters, and having your senior centers cut….I recommend a YES ON O vote.
We can deal with a bad project today and deal with bad leaders in November.
I had to repost.....since they deleted it earlier.
tim

United States

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#8
Jun 5, 2010
 
city greedy workers/council just want the revenue to continue to over pay themselves and all city dirt bags. its a joke, the rev. wmt brings will only go to padding the pensions and screwing the real resident. open your eyes redlands, the city does not care and walmart does not care.
Redlands Resident

Mentone, CA

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#9
Jun 9, 2010
 
MEASURE O
54/54 100.00%
Vote Count Percent
YES 5,323 44.96%
NO 6,516 55.04%
Total 11,839 100.00%

Oh man these posts are classic. Filled with more mis-information than one could imagine. Even replying to their own post and quoting it.

Mervyn's went BANKRUPT, and guess what, it was not because of the City Council or their planning. Guess what, the owners of the Redlands Mall are going BANKRUPT, and not because of the City Council.

It is good to know that the people of Redlands were not fooled into believing the union supporters rhetoric. They chose to vote based on facts instead of scare tactics. This was supposed to be an issue about "big box stores" but the yea on "O" group made it a fight against Wal-Mart. They made it an issue of Wal-Mart's GREED, when it was really their greed wanting no compitition and all the money to go to them.

Thank you Redlands for seeing through the lies.
Ken Keniff

Redlands, CA

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#10
Jun 9, 2010
 
Where's that 'Yes on O' guy that would always quote the bible? I can't wait to see the bible thumping begin.
REAListic

Riverside, CA

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#11
Jun 9, 2010
 
Ken Keniff wrote:
Where's that 'Yes on O' guy that would always quote the bible? I can't wait to see the bible thumping begin.
Psalm 52:2
"Your tongue plots destruction; it is like a sharpened razor, you who practice deceit"

I assume you are going to spend the rest of the month talking about this, but it was spirited and pretty close. 597 votes the other way and it passed. It did not pass...so that is OK. We move on and find ways to help the city. That was what this was about for me. We now have new "givens" to factor into what we can do to help, but it does not change the fact we need to do something to solve budget issues, blight and a bunch of other stuff.

I cannot imagine you just want to sit back and throw crap all day....but just in case:

Luke 6:29 NAS
"Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either."
REAListic

Riverside, CA

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#12
Jun 9, 2010
 
Ken Keniff wrote:
Where's that 'Yes on O' guy that would always quote the bible? I can't wait to see the bible thumping begin.
Now that the vote is over....it should free up some time. Maybe Sunday service?

Come on Kenny....I will even let you buy a bible at Wal-Mart to read.
AndreaU8

La Habra, CA

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#13
Jun 9, 2010
 
Seeing through the smoke wrote:
The site can be developed with a retailer than can bring goods and services that we really need and not be a drain to taxpayers. The right retailer can bring real jobs, real taxes and real benefit to the city. Wal-Mart is not the right retailer.
Which anchor do you propose? Because without a strong large anchor there will not be a shopping center.

Regards to the current WalMart and the center with the empty Mervyns - here is the chance to remodel those centers (they are both outdated and the circulation within them sucks).
Ken Keniff

Redlands, CA

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#14
Jun 9, 2010
 
REAListic wrote:
<quoted text>
Now that the vote is over....it should free up some time. Maybe Sunday service?
Come on Kenny....I will even let you buy a bible at Wal-Mart to read.
Thanks for the tempting offer, I was just curious about what bible selections would be picked now that the O measure lost. What happened, God didn't listen or did God enjoy the low prices of Walmart? Thump, thump ..........
REAListic

Riverside, CA

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#15
Jun 9, 2010
 
Ken Keniff wrote:
<quoted text> Thanks for the tempting offer, I was just curious about what bible selections would be picked now that the O measure lost. What happened, God didn't listen or did God enjoy the low prices of Walmart? Thump, thump ..........
Really, I can pick you up and take you. Church is a good thing.

I typically would not think of praying for an 80% Yes vote. I have done probably 150 projects across 15 states and have never thought of bothering God little issues. If I have 10 minutes to pray, I think we can all agree there are bigger issues. I know He can keep track of all things....but my mind is limited.

I do pray for our troops, but not the Yes on O troops. I would like to see a united group get together to make this city better. I can GUARANTEE you that the Yes group was more diverse than you could imagine....and if that group could work together...anything is possible.

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

p.s. I do not think God shops at Wal-Mart....but when I see him, I will ask.
Ken Keniff

Redlands, CA

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#16
Jun 9, 2010
 
This offer is getting more tempting by the minute, though I am guessing that God would want people to shop at Walmart, that way they have extra money to give to the church, kinda helps pay for all those sex abuse settlements these days. Though, when you talk to him, let me know.

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