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Catherine French
Wichita, KS
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Scientific problems with Toxicity: Some researchers have been giving statements that are not based upon complete analysis, but come across as fear. One researched stated "all the time people were dying of cancers now associated with drinking that arsenic-contaminated water". But we would have to assume that all autopsies of ancient and modern humans has shown a 100% statistical correlation to arsenic and not to other factors, such as other chemicals, other metals, diet, sun exposure, prescription drug effects, genetics, other elements, etc. In addition, a number of other studies did not show good statistical analysis / correlation on the level of arsenic (percent or parts per million) and health effects. The residents of Amargosa Valley and Beatty in Nevada and the Death Valley areas in California have elevated levels of arsenic in their drinking waters, but cancers are not prevalent there. A number of residents several of us know have lived to the age of 80s and 90s. How do we explain that? In talking to the environmental and biological scientists on the West Coast about this issue, a peculiar point was brought up. Most of them have mathematically matched arsenic levels to human health affects through regression methods. These are the SAME types of methods used on Lead and Mercury research, as seen in the scientific publications. These methods "assume" a straight statistical correlation (both linear and non-linear) between the input of arsenic and the output (health affects). But how could they have known what other elements in the drinking water were doing in conjunction with arsenic? None of these scientists have filtered out those inputs that are either not affecting the output, or are affecting in minor ways, or are affecting in combined effects that do not show up until certain conditions are correct. The methods are the analyses of variances and other advanced techniques, which do not appear to be well known by these scientists. Few scientists and researchers know how to use statistics properly to be able to filter and view data for the actual, true cause-and-effects. Too many times researchers use statistical regression methods that assume a direct relationship between the causes and effect, which may not be real. Although there are several books on the market, one of the best books that can help researchers, analysts, and scientists is a book entitled, "Statistics for Experimenters," by Box, Hunter, and Hunter. Native peoples have been drinking water here in America and many other places for centuries with arsenic and other "contaminants," (like lead) long before there was ever a Federal government to protect us from the Earth. Why don't the environmentalists understand basic Earth Sciences?
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Catherine French
Wichita, KS
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Catherine French
Wichita, KS
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Other Scientific problems with Metals Toxicity: Major scientific problems with Arsenic research, which also leads to problems with scientific research on lead, mercury and metals. In the past I have worked with and talked to many researchers about their methods of designing their research and experiments on arsenic, mercury and lead toxicity. There are some major problems with the basic methods and scientific "assumptions" that these people have made. This is a response to the research done by Dartmouth College on arsenic (and on the lack of cancers in the residents of Armagosa Valley, CA, that has very high arsenic content in its drinking waters): http://www.wateronline.com/content/news/artic... There are major experimental design questions here: Just what is the concentration of the arsenic used in the experiment? Was this equivalent to the concentration found in normal human blood after drinking water with groundwater arsenic? Too often experimenters in the past have made the As ionic concentrations way too high for what is found in humans (blood and urine and other types of samples), after they drank groundwater with high arsenic content. Was the CHEMISTRY of the experiment truly equivalent to the chemistry found in human blood after groundwater ingestion AND the resulting biochemical interactions that take place in the digestive tract, blood, arteries, etc.? We have seen many other experimenters use arsenic tests that did NOT have the same blood chemistry and did NOT have concentrations found in human blood after ingesting. They used "tissue samples". But are these conditions truly equivalent to what humans have in terms of the tissues that receive their ions from blood and plasma through the arteries and other biochemical processes within the human bodies? See also the problems with biological models http://www.the-scientist.com/article/home/533...
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Since: Apr 07
Hermosillo, Mexico
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Catherine : Like I said in other thread . Who cares about your ramblings ? It is a given that whereever there was / is a smelter downwind from said facility there will be a "footprint" / "plume" of pollution both in soil and groundwater.
Who do you work for? Lyers?
Also sites of pollution are not confined to smelters - remember Love Canal? You don't need sophisticated analyzes to identify the sites .
One person to die as a result of manmade pollution is one too many .
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“Knowledge is Power”
Since: Feb 08
Pond Creek, Oklahoma
ISP:
Oklahoma City, OK
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Sleibhin wrote: Catherine : Like I said in other thread . Who cares about your ramblings ? It is a given that whereever there was / is a smelter downwind from said facility there will be a "footprint" / "plume" of pollution both in soil and groundwater.
Who do you work for? Lyers?
Also sites of pollution are not confined to smelters - remember Love Canal? You don't need sophisticated analyzes to identify the sites .
One person to die as a result of manmade pollution is one too many . I agree! What about the raised levels of lead in children? This lady appears to be a mouthpiece for the refinery. And if she isn't, she must not have talked to the citizens.
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Since: Apr 07
Puerto Peņasco, Mexico
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Yes I don't know who she works for but she sure isn't for the citizens of Blackwell or any other area where the people have been subjected to pollution / contamination from not just mining related sources.
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concerned
Blackwell, OK
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Sleibhin wrote: Yes I don't know who she works for but she sure isn't for the citizens of Blackwell or any other area where the people have been subjected to pollution / contamination from not just mining related sources. Maybe the people of Blackwell should look all the way to the east side of Blackwell for contamination.Places that nobody has even thought about.
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“Knowledge is Power”
Since: Feb 08
Pond Creek, Oklahoma
ISP:
Ponca City, OK
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concerned wrote: <quoted text> Maybe the people of Blackwell should look all the way to the east side of Blackwell for contamination.Places that nobody has even thought about. Why would the elitists want to help mostly poorer citizens? That's like asking Obama to actually prove the economy is rebounding.:) Most who live over there have less money than central and west side citizens. I personally find it disgusting the way most people from the east side are over looked and often snubbed just because they love in the flood zone. But remember; often "concerned citizens" are only concerned for their own neighborhoods.
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concerned
Blackwell, OK
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Maybe it's time the citizens that live on the east side stand up and fight together.How many of them knew about the state Rep.(Dale Dewitt) & some others being at the old bridge on Aug. 26,2009. The land around the bridge has contaminates all over it.Maybe you should talk to the man that owns the land where the so-called drain is and ask him why the street keeps flooding.Everytime the land floods,it spreads more of the contamination around the area. Go knock on his door and see what he has to say about it.
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concerned
Blackwell, OK
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Catherine French wrote: Other Scientific problems with Metals Toxicity: Major scientific problems with Arsenic research, which also leads to problems with scientific research on lead, mercury and metals. In the past I have worked with and talked to many researchers about their methods of designing their research and experiments on arsenic, mercury and lead toxicity. There are some major problems with the basic methods and scientific "assumptions" that these people have made. This is a response to the research done by Dartmouth College on arsenic (and on the lack of cancers in the residents of Armagosa Valley, CA, that has very high arsenic content in its drinking waters): http://www.wateronline.com/content/news/artic... There are major experimental design questions here: Just what is the concentration of the arsenic used in the experiment? Was this equivalent to the concentration found in normal human blood after drinking water with groundwater arsenic? Too often experimenters in the past have made the As ionic concentrations way too high for what is found in humans (blood and urine and other types of samples), after they drank groundwater with high arsenic content. Was the CHEMISTRY of the experiment truly equivalent to the chemistry found in human blood after groundwater ingestion AND the resulting biochemical interactions that take place in the digestive tract, blood, arteries, etc.? We have seen many other experimenters use arsenic tests that did NOT have the same blood chemistry and did NOT have concentrations found in human blood after ingesting. They used "tissue samples". But are these conditions truly equivalent to what humans have in terms of the tissues that receive their ions from blood and plasma through the arteries and other biochemical processes within the human bodies? See also the problems with biological models http://www.the-scientist.com/article/home/533... You say you're from Wichita,Ks. The explain to me why the land & homes out by the Garvey elevator were bought & torn down.Also so explain why the water service in Wesley medical Center was shut off back in 1981.You seem to know so much about all this type of stuff.Have you ever done water testing,soil testing or treatment of either one?
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