Proposed climate bill a breath of fre...

Proposed climate bill a breath of fresh air

There are 91 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Jun 26, 2009, titled Proposed climate bill a breath of fresh air. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

The climate bill, with its cap-and-trade component, that is to go to the House floor for a vote Friday is that rare piece of legislation that has both environmentalists and heavy industry saying they can live with the result.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

Tim B

Sublimity, OR

#24 Jun 26, 2009
It is beyond me why any representative would vote for a bill that could increase monthly power bills by over $100 per household
When will our millionaire (or soon to be millionaire) public representatives stop getting elected to become more wealthy, and stop putting the screws to the "getting poorer by the day" working man.
WTF

Wayne, IL

#25 Jun 26, 2009
An Honest Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
Of cources global warming is a scam!
That is because chemisty, physics, and biology are also scams!
We all know that computers work because God tells them too. There is no such think as "electricity". Tthat is just something that was made up so that corporations can profit off of Gods power to turn on your appliances.
If Global warming is a scam, electricity has to be also, because they are both based off of the same principles of energy consumption.
Everyone knows that energy just dissipates when you are done with it, there is not such thing as heat, and Einstein was just some Jew who tricked everyone into believing his cult.
You clearly illustrate the point why all liberals should have what is left of their brains used for fertilizer. Nice antisemitism to buddy, all you liberals really take the cake.
An Honest Conservative

Bethlehem, PA

#26 Jun 26, 2009
Esox Lucius wrote:
Ya know, come to think of it, how are carbon credit, cap and trade schemes any different from the "Indulgences" sold by the Catholic church in the middle ages?
Sin is bad, but if you pay us a small fee, you can buy your way out of the sin's ramifications on your immortal soul.
Carbon is bad, but if you give us government types a little more money and power, then it's ok to pollute.
Well obviously the Church uses that money to pay God back, like the government is going to use that money to help the environment and lower our taxes.

I would rather have the corporations screw up the environment then have them pay extra money into our tax system so that I can get cheaper taxes!

More higher taxes!

More crappy environment!

2 Birds with 1 stone!
John

Painesville, OH

#27 Jun 26, 2009
How long before the "Jack Booted" socialist come snooping around checking for smoke coming from my wood burning furnace?

A much of crazy fools with a media that at this point is state controlled and would let credible evidence vs global warming out!!!

http://climaterealists.com/index.php

This is jus another way for the govt to try to control our lives...fools all!

However, what did one expect from a community organizer? Captilism and common sense...right
Tim

Bethlehem, PA

#28 Jun 26, 2009
Environmentalist wrote:
Notice how the term "Global Warming" has now mutated into "Climate Change"?
Too many global warming protesters standing in a blizzard changed all that.
The original '70s climate protesters swore that a new ICE AGE would soon be upon us.
Global warming causes an ice age eventually.

Earth warms, ice melts, water rises, plankton increases, plankton eats CO2, Earth cools, water freezes, ice age.
RBlackford

Cincinnati, OH

#29 Jun 26, 2009
An Honest Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah! Everyone knows that Global warming doesn't exist...
I mean look at this proof:
When I turn on my stove, and cook my food, the temperature in my house doesn't change! All that extra heat that I produce just disappears when I turn the stove off.
Just because 97% of smart, college-educated, scientists and the people from nasa says global warming is real, doesn't mean it is. They also said that the world is round and that the earth rotates around the sun.
Everyone knows that the earth is more of a square shape, and the sun is just God smiling and watching us all day.
Global Warming exists, and has always existing (along with the sibling Global Cooling). It's just that man-made global warming doesn't exist--at least to any extent that could ever affect anything.

If you do some Googling, you'll find out why the NASA scientists agree (as those NASA scientists who disagreed and tried to voice their findings were fired!).

I honestly do not believe more than even 5% of not-so-smart scientists could actually agree with man-made global warming. The science and math is just so simple!

Click around and do some research instead of blindly following some fake 97% statistic and assuming what others say is true. The science really isn't that hard. If you have a high-school education and 60 minutes to read, you'll be a man-induced global warming believer no longer.
Tim

Bethlehem, PA

#30 Jun 26, 2009
Tim B wrote:
It is beyond me why any representative would vote for a bill that could increase monthly power bills by over $100 per household
When will our millionaire (or soon to be millionaire) public representatives stop getting elected to become more wealthy, and stop putting the screws to the "getting poorer by the day" working man.
Try yearly power bills by only $175. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start crying.
Ted

Florissant, MO

#31 Jun 26, 2009
This Cap and trade bill is another tax; it should be called "Cap and Tax" and will only rise prices on all goods and services. It creates another "middle-man", fictional market to create tax money. It is not a good idea in our current economic situation or likely ever. There are better ways to control environmental damaging aspects of industry. Be creative in solutions instead of names on bills!
Shady Lady

United States

#32 Jun 26, 2009
If this is passed without anyone reading it, like the other bills from the Ayatollah we will find out once again the followers have guessed wrong. This bill will increase your electric bill, and you can decide by Nov 2010 whether the supporters of this bill need to upgrade their resumes by election day.
An Honest Conservative

Bethlehem, PA

#33 Jun 26, 2009
John wrote:
How long before the "Jack Booted" socialist come snooping around checking for smoke coming from my wood burning furnace?
A much of crazy fools with a media that at this point is state controlled and would let credible evidence vs global warming out!!!
http://climaterealists.com/index.php
This is jus another way for the govt to try to control our lives...fools all!
However, what did one expect from a community organizer? Captilism and common sense...right
Yeah!

They are already attacking people who smoke!

Just because you would need a hundred thousand wood stoves to produce the amount of pollution that comes out of one coal plant, doesn't mean that the government won't come after everyone of you!
An Honest Conservative

Bethlehem, PA

#34 Jun 26, 2009
WTF wrote:
<quoted text>
You clearly illustrate the point why all liberals should have what is left of their brains used for fertilizer. Nice antisemitism to buddy, all you liberals really take the cake.
I am just pointing out the fact that if you do not believe in global warming then you must think that Einstein didn't know anything about science.

His theories and global warming go hand in hand.

Either he is wrong or global warming is real, you choose.
Cryos

Eden Prairie, MN

#35 Jun 26, 2009
Gotta love the propagandists like An Honest Conservative.

Guess what "discussing" it for 2 months says NOTHING about knowing the provisions on the bill or that 11pm changes won't be made to undercut it. Look at the stimulus.

Explain a few simple things in your infinite wisdom. There are many more but here are some starters. "Just believing" in the liberal idealist utopian RELIGION does not suffice for an answer.

1. Why do IPCC climate models assume positive feedbacks reign and are an anomaly as compared to feedback models in other climate and scientific modeling?

I have never heard an answer for this and it is VERY relevant since with IPCC modeling the earth would not sustain life and the ONLY way that CO2 makes any significant difference is when using skewed positive feedback models.

2. If the problem is TRULY scientific why are all the proposed solutions political?

3. Is it just coincidence the same people that advocate strict IPCC rules also:
- Support prohibiting the US from using viable current low carbon energy sources like nuclear
- Support global wealth distribution and particularly target the US
- Many previously supported things like the World Energy Tax

4. If "the debate is over" how come scientists missed some basic logic and science 101 things. Example permafrost. They recently had to revise their warming estimates from melting permafrost. Why? They didn't factor in the extra plant growth from unfrozen ground would mitigate some of the gases released.

5. Why doesn't the media report things like more and more former IPCC scientiss and AGW supporters have become skeptics as more evidence comes out?
AZ Jay

Phoenix, AZ

#36 Jun 26, 2009
Tim wrote:
If you take power from the gas company, and turn on your stove to heat your food, does your house warm up?
So if you take power from the ground and burn it to create electricity, why wouldn't the earth warm up?
Please explain how these two situations are different.
Tim you are an idiot. Heat dissipates it does not go on forever. Just because something got hot like your dinner plate in the microwave does not mean it will stay hot forever, and get hotter every time you put in the microwave. Nor does your house get hot and then never cool down (forget about A/C it will cool down as the heat dissipates and the molecules slow down).

Furthermore, what causes heat? Oh yeah, I remember more than 20 years ago in physics class that it has something to do with the acceleration of molecules. Fast molecules make hot, and then those molecules slow down and become not hot.(simple enough for ya?) If this escapes your intellect drop by your local high school and ask for a remedial refresher in physics.

Global warming is a scam, and just another lie fed to us by the Obamanation that is our President. But maybe they're right, I mean global warming could be why my town of Phoenix is having its coolest summer in decades...hmmm.
Cryos

Eden Prairie, MN

#37 Jun 26, 2009
RBlackford wrote:
<quoted text>
Global Warming exists, and has always existing (along with the sibling Global Cooling). It's just that man-made global warming doesn't exist--at least to any extent that could ever affect anything.
If you do some Googling, you'll find out why the NASA scientists agree (as those NASA scientists who disagreed and tried to voice their findings were fired!).
I honestly do not believe more than even 5% of not-so-smart scientists could actually agree with man-made global warming. The science and math is just so simple!
Click around and do some research instead of blindly following some fake 97% statistic and assuming what others say is true. The science really isn't that hard. If you have a high-school education and 60 minutes to read, you'll be a man-induced global warming believer no longer.
Yep blind subservience and blending in are the average voters motivation. Funding is the average scientists motivation.

The scientists who don't agree with AGW theory privately but agree publicly probably justify it feeling the value of the research they do that would not be funded if they told their true opinions is greater than the loss of value of subscribing to junk science.
Walter Festoon

Naperville, IL

#38 Jun 26, 2009
An Honest Conservative wrote : "There is no such think as "electricity".
There's our leader, that says it all.
Tim B

Sublimity, OR

#39 Jun 26, 2009
Tim wrote:
<quoted text>
Try yearly power bills by only $175. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start crying.
I should be crying, and you should get your facts straight.

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/cap-and-tra...
Bill Buzz BEE

Saint Louis, MO

#40 Jun 26, 2009
If the US is not the police force of the world, then why does it have to be the maid? This Bill will not move China or India to do crap. All the Democrats want is more money to push more oppressive agendas on the middle class. They are to blind with power to see who they are truly representing. But hey I have always loved taxation without representation. Oh I agree, just because 97% of Lemmings go over the edge doesn’t make them right.
An Honest Conservative

Bethlehem, PA

#41 Jun 26, 2009
RBlackford wrote:
<quoted text>
Global Warming exists, and has always existing (along with the sibling Global Cooling). It's just that man-made global warming doesn't exist--at least to any extent that could ever affect anything.
If you do some Googling, you'll find out why the NASA scientists agree (as those NASA scientists who disagreed and tried to voice their findings were fired!).
I honestly do not believe more than even 5% of not-so-smart scientists could actually agree with man-made global warming. The science and math is just so simple!
Click around and do some research instead of blindly following some fake 97% statistic and assuming what others say is true. The science really isn't that hard. If you have a high-school education and 60 minutes to read, you'll be a man-induced global warming believer no longer.
Damn, I only have a Bachelor's degree in science, I guess I have to dumb myself down to a high school education to understand how global warming doesn't exist.

The people in college tried to tell me that there is a law called "conservation of energy" that proves that energy can only change forms and can never be created or destroyed.

That means that when to take dormant "stored" energy from the ground, and turn it into heat, that heat just floats around until something absorbs it again.

They also said that the heat is really this gas called CO2, that will actually ABSORB more heat from the sun instead of cooling down. The only thing that can stop this evil gas is plants.

You see, plants can absorb CO2. That is how we got coal and oil in the first place. Plants absorbed CO2, died, and turn that stored energy into oil over thousands of years.

Now the college professors, those elitist liberal jerks, tell me that if we release carbon back into the air fast then the plants can absorb it, the earth will heat up.

But we all know that humans plant more trees and plants then they ever destroy, and we never burn more oil and coal then the earth would naturally have burned.

That is why global warming doesn't exist. Humans are not putting more CO2 into the air then what would naturally occur, and we are not kill plants faster then the earth would naturally kill them. Its not like we dig up oil and burn it or cut down forests. That would change the earth's natural cooling and heating process so that has been outlawed since forever.

If we did do those things then global warming would definitely be real, but we aren't so we are all okay.
Cryos

Eden Prairie, MN

#42 Jun 26, 2009
An Honest Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
I am just pointing out the fact that if you do not believe in global warming then you must think that Einstein didn't know anything about science.
His theories and global warming go hand in hand.
Either he is wrong or global warming is real, you choose.
It's too bad Einstein isn't alive. I'd bet money he wouldn't subscribe to AGW theory and it would be amusing watching people like you try to say he's an idiot.
Tim

Bethlehem, PA

#43 Jun 26, 2009
AZ Jay wrote:
<quoted text>
Tim you are an idiot. Heat dissipates it does not go on forever. Just because something got hot like your dinner plate in the microwave does not mean it will stay hot forever, and get hotter every time you put in the microwave. Nor does your house get hot and then never cool down (forget about A/C it will cool down as the heat dissipates and the molecules slow down).
Furthermore, what causes heat? Oh yeah, I remember more than 20 years ago in physics class that it has something to do with the acceleration of molecules. Fast molecules make hot, and then those molecules slow down and become not hot.(simple enough for ya?) If this escapes your intellect drop by your local high school and ask for a remedial refresher in physics.
Global warming is a scam, and just another lie fed to us by the Obamanation that is our President. But maybe they're right, I mean global warming could be why my town of Phoenix is having its coolest summer in decades...hmmm.
Looking up "conservation of energy" so that you can lean a little bit about heat and how when it "dissipates" it is just spreading that heat over a larger area.

If you pump in energy from outside your house, like a gas stove, you are changing the average temperature inside your house by the exact amount of energy you pumped in. I have a major in physics, and a 600 page book right in front of me.

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