Opponents seek to block Lockport oil ...

Opponents seek to block Lockport oil pipeline

There are 134 comments on the The Herald-News story from May 22, 2013, titled Opponents seek to block Lockport oil pipeline. In it, The Herald-News reports that:

A Lockport-based environmental group wants to block an oil pipeline bridge that would deliver crude oil from storage tanks at the former Texaco refinery site to nearby barges.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Herald-News.

lockporter

Chicago, IL

#102 Jun 26, 2013
Ellis Wyatt wrote:
If we could have "something else" then what would you propose? Boutiques and restaurants?
not sure you understood my sarcasm of grass huts in the rain Forrest.
the Chevron property is one small part of all of Lockport.
When the Texaco refinery was operating, it was a major driver of the local economy.
If you think boutiques, restaurants and manicured lawns is what makes a community, you are mistaken,
to build a strong community, economic development is needed, a tax base is needed. jobs that are better than minimum wage jobs in boutiques and restaurants.
As for State st 171 being a show place, the pipe line isn't going to be running down the middle of the road. We are talking about a distance of about a mile on the Chevron property itself.
You're right that I don't "get" sarcasm. I think sarcasm is used as a foil or excuse for angry/nasty/insecure remarks.
I agree that economic development is a good tax base for a community and that there needs to be planned development of industry, retail and residential. Because a refinery WAS a driver in the past does not mean that is our future, especially in an economy where those non-minimum wage jobs are disappearing. Didn't take you to be a union supporter but those workers had to fight for those wages (anyone remember the strikes at CitGo over the years?) It's not like industry likes giving those wages (witness Caterpillar and their tiered wages, then they still close factories after concessions have been given and corporate profits earned.)

I just think local business leaders should be pursuing industries other than a pipeline. Lockport can be better than it was and is.
lockporter

Chicago, IL

#103 Jun 26, 2013
Ellis Wyatt wrote:
About those manicured lawns,
fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides to make those manicured lawns are toxic to the environment.
spreading toxic chemicals on lawns right where people live makes a better community?
I have a beautiful lawn (almost 2 acres) and don't use any of those products. Using those products is the easy, and toxic way of caring for a lawn. Takes time and patience to cultivate. Kind of what I would like to see local leaders do with appropriate industry - spend the time to secure new businesses for our community.
Ellis Wyatt

Alsip, IL

#104 Jun 26, 2013
you did not answer as to what should be on the Texaco/Chevron site. or am I correct in thinking you would want boutiques and restaurants there?

Infrastructure like oil depots are needed,
should we use land that has been used for this previously, or use farm land for a depot to be built on.
maybe fill in a wet land or clear forest land?

I'd like to preserve our current open space and use industrial land for industry.

those boutiques and restaurants sure aren't going to do much to provide better than minimum wage jobs

Union or Non Union the Co Gent facility will provide better paying jobs.
Ellis Wyatt

Wheaton, IL

#105 Jun 26, 2013
Seeing that C.A.R.E. wants to keep all oil away from the Chevron site.
Let's look at this example, at least one C.A.R.E. member has an asphalt driveway and a rather large one. guess what Asphalt is an oil product and it's all over their front yard. and it looks to be freshly sealed. guess what asphalt sealer is made from, either more asphalt if oil based or coal tar
if it's a water based sealer. both are toxic.

so it's not ok to have oil in tanks or a pipeline but it's ok to pour oil/coal products in your front yard?

as we all know you need to re seal an asphalt drive way at least every couple of years. And why is that, it's because the sealer wears off and escapes into the environment.

how's that for caring for the environment?

Hardliner

Homer Glen, IL

#106 Jun 26, 2013
Ellis Wyatt wrote:
About those manicured lawns,
fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides to make those manicured lawns are toxic to the environment.
spreading toxic chemicals on lawns right where people live makes a better community?
Thank you for reminding me. I have to pick up the Scotts Super Turf Builder summer application. I have had great experience with the Scotts line of products over the years. My grass is always green and lush, I couldn’t be happier!
Ellis Wyatt

Wheaton, IL

#107 Jun 26, 2013
Hardliner wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for reminding me. I have to pick up the Scotts Super Turf Builder summer application. I have had great experience with the Scotts line of products over the years. My grass is always green and lush, I couldn’t be happier!
Yes, you understand what's going on here.
Jerry

Lockport, IL

#108 Jun 26, 2013
Porter Place wrote:
<quoted text>
These ladies aren't really genuine environmentalists that actually care about the air or the water, they are just obstructionists that are trying to block any type of development on the former Texaco site. The environment is just the excuse that they keep on trotting out for the media.
This comment is worth repeating!
Ellis Wyatt

Alsip, IL

#109 Jun 27, 2013
Exactly, this whole thread is to expose the agenda
to stop any development on the Texaco site
it's not about the environment it's about NIMBY
( Not In My Back Yard ) mentality
Ellis Wyatt

Alsip, IL

#110 Jun 28, 2013
Ellis Wyatt

Itasca, IL

#111 Jul 11, 2013
Another letter to the editor about co gen and more lies and half truths.

the scare tactic of reduced property values,
please show proof of this. an oil depot is in Mokena on Wolf road, we don't see abandon properties there or for sale signs all over. Crestwood has an oil depot right in Cicero avenue. doesn't seen to be hurting their property values. Speaking of Crest wood, what did their water problems cone from?, not oil but dry cleaning chemicals. stuff even more toxic than oil.

more noisy trains? hey C.A.R.E. why not ban Amtrak and Metra from running trains through Lockport.
Amtrak trains make more noise than the freight trains. my self I am glad to have Amtrak and Metra trains come through Lockport,

Co Gent would not be a "DUMPING GROUND" oil is stored and transferred not dumped.

the Co gent plant would not be releasing toxic fumes, if you are referring to the trains,
modern diesel locomotives are cleaner and more efficient than ever. and guess what, Diesels replaced Steam engines that released way more smoke soot and fumes than a diesel engine.

Bulk oil causing spills, can you explain why bulk oil is more likely to leak than a refined oil product or natural gas?

When the Texaco oil refinery was first built there were few environmental laws. things have changed since then, there are new laws, new technologies
and yes much better ways to respond to a possible leak, preventing "a clean up for the next generation"

support Co Gent, I would rather have Co gent in Lockport on the Cheveron/Texaco site than built on other land.

would C.A.R.E. rather see farm land paved over for an oil depot?, maybe a forest cleared for a site?
or how about wetlands filled in?

there is a logical choice, that is to use an area that have been an industrial site for more industry.

lockporter

Chicago, IL

#112 Jul 12, 2013
Ellis Wyatt wrote:
Let's look at this example, at least one C.A.R.E. member has an asphalt driveway and a rather large one. guess what Asphalt is an oil product and it's all over their front yard. and it looks to be freshly sealed. guess what asphalt sealer is made from, either more asphalt if oil based or coal tar
if it's a water based sealer. both are toxic.
so it's not ok to have oil in tanks or a pipeline but it's ok to pour oil/coal products in your front yard?
as we all know you need to re seal an asphalt drive way at least every couple of years. And why is that, it's because the sealer wears off and escapes into the environment.
how's that for caring for the environment?
Let's just concede that to live a normal human existence these days that people have to use or be exposed to petroleum products. there's a great book for the non-science oriented individual about plastics, their history and modern use "Plastic: a toxic love story 054715240X that demonstrates how insidious and consuming that petrol-based product is in our lives. If the CARE member didn't have asphalt you would fault them for the concrete trucks using gas or the gravel drive throwing up too much dust or, whatever, you just like attacking the CARE people and not the subject. Kind of like how the climate deniers focus on personal attacks and don't address the science.

In the recent news about the Quebec town did you notice that in 2011 no rail tankers crossed the border into Maine and now it is more than dozens each week. There's no stopping the damage, or disaster, once you let it in to your community.
lockporter

Chicago, IL

#113 Jul 12, 2013
Ellis Wyatt wrote:
hey C.A.R.E. why not ban Amtrak and Metra from running trains through Lockport.
Amtrak trains make more noise than the freight trains.
This is your sarcasm again? You do know that AMTrak and METRA keep hundreds if not thousands of vehicles off the road and reduce toxic emissions from all those cars right? Nothing is perfect but we can do our best to protect what we have.
lockporter

Chicago, IL

#114 Jul 12, 2013
Ellis Wyatt wrote:
Exactly, this whole thread is to expose the agenda
to stop any development on the Texaco site
it's not about the environment it's about NIMBY
( Not In My Back Yard ) mentality
I'm not a member of CARE but have they said no development or just no to CoGent. I think it's funny you quote NIMBY but I'm sure if you stand in most back yards in Lockport, there's a smoke stack or refinery already in your view. I don't think it's a NIMBY situation, it's an environmental situation, which is the group's focus, right?
lockporter

Chicago, IL

#115 Jul 12, 2013
Ellis Wyatt wrote:
I would rather have Co gent in Lockport on the Cheveron/Texaco site than built on other land.
would C.A.R.E. rather see farm land paved over for an oil depot?, maybe a forest cleared for a site?
or how about wetlands filled in?
there is a logical choice, that is to use an area that have been an industrial site for more industry.
Why do we have to pave over the farm land or open space at all? Aren't there enough or sufficient buildings for development or rehab now? Why EVER consider filling in a landfill? Oh wait, are you being sarcastic again? Why can't the choice be no CoGent at all?
Ellis Wyatt

Palatine, IL

#116 Jul 12, 2013
lockporter wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's just concede that to live a normal human existence these days that people have to use or be exposed to petroleum products. there's a great book for the non-science oriented individual about plastics, their history and modern use "Plastic: a toxic love story 054715240X that demonstrates how insidious and consuming that petrol-based product is in our lives. If the CARE member didn't have asphalt you would fault them for the concrete trucks using gas or the gravel drive throwing up too much dust or, whatever, you just like attacking the CARE people and not the subject. Kind of like how the climate deniers focus on personal attacks and don't address the science.
In the recent news about the Quebec town did you notice that in 2011 no rail tankers crossed the border into Maine and now it is more than dozens each week. There's no stopping the damage, or disaster, once you let it in to your community.
you sure miss the point,
gravel and concrete are more environmentally friendly that asphalt
asphalt is made from a heavy oil product, so, if you feel that oil is so toxic why is it in your front yard? and if you put sealer on the asphalt you are putting even more of that toxic oil in your front yard.

why are trains crossing the border carrying oil? it because there are not enough oil pipelines to carry the oil, and our government and a small minority of people work to prevent pipe lines from being built causing a greater risk to people.
Ellis Wyatt

Palatine, IL

#117 Jul 12, 2013
lockporter wrote:
<quoted text>
This is your sarcasm again? You do know that AMTrak and METRA keep hundreds if not thousands of vehicles off the road and reduce toxic emissions from all those cars right? Nothing is perfect but we can do our best to protect what we have.
again you miss the point,
bet you did not read where I said I like Amtrak an Metra running through Lockport

freight trains keep even more vehicles off our roads and reduce emissions by a huge margin over trucks.

and there are more truck accidents that rail accidents, but the rail accidents make more of a head line for the media. you are much more likely to be involved in a truck accident than a rail accident unless you drive around lowered crossing gates.

Ellis Wyatt

Palatine, IL

#118 Jul 12, 2013
lockporter wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not a member of CARE but have they said no development or just no to CoGent. I think it's funny you quote NIMBY but I'm sure if you stand in most back yards in Lockport, there's a smoke stack or refinery already in your view. I don't think it's a NIMBY situation, it's an environmental situation, which is the group's focus, right?
No it's really a NIMBY issue,
Ellis Wyatt

Palatine, IL

#119 Jul 12, 2013
lockporter wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do we have to pave over the farm land or open space at all? Aren't there enough or sufficient buildings for development or rehab now? Why EVER consider filling in a landfill? Oh wait, are you being sarcastic again? Why can't the choice be no CoGent at all?
Really, building on a land fill?
not a good idea at all, most land fills would not be stable enough to build on, and in the event of an earth quake, that is a recipe for disaster. an oil depot is the last thing you would want to build on a land fill.
Porter Place

Lemont, IL

#120 Jul 12, 2013
lockporter wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not a member of CARE but have they said no development or just no to CoGent. I think it's funny you quote NIMBY but I'm sure if you stand in most back yards in Lockport, there's a smoke stack or refinery already in your view. I don't think it's a NIMBY situation, it's an environmental situation, which is the group's focus, right?
The CARE bunch have stated repeatedly that they will oppose anything that Chevron does with the former Texaco Refinery site, and that nothing Chevron ever does on that site will satisfy them. They aren't genuine environmentalists - they are just NIMBY's that are using their alleged environmental concerns as their smoke screen.
Ellis Wyatt

Palatine, IL

#121 Jul 12, 2013
if you want to address climate change,
let's start with this,
the Earth of course is warmed by the sun.
does the sun burn at a constant temperature?
the answer is no, sun spot activity and solar flares alter the temperature output of the sun.
can we control this phenomenon,? absolutely not.
there are direct patterns of warmer Earth temperatures when there is more Solar activity.

Science tells us one day in the distant future our our sun will turn into a red giant, burning our Earth to a crisp, no amount of carbon credits can stop this.

can we stop volcanoes from spewing climate changing gasses and particles of ash?
no we cannot.

what caused the great ice age to end?
Dinosaurs driving big SUV's?

nature must be respected for it always has the upper hand.

yes we do need to use Earth's resources wisely and use all that has been given to us.

remember oil was created by the earth is self.
Man did not create oil. the earth did.

maybe some day there will be the break though in technology that will give us energy that is safer cleaner but till then I will use oil.

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