Creation Rediscovered: Evolution & the Importance of the Origins Debate: Gerard Keane: Books

[Kerdy 1]

Paul Zannucci wrote:

See, that's what I'm talking about. How does what you just said relate to the message of Christ? Nothing leads to atheism but stupid hatred, and all of Christianity lately is stupid hatred.

So you compromise teaching the truth of Gods word in order to get people to like us? That is dangerous and playing the peoples soles. The truth must be taught especially now that it very well seems that time is short.

[Dryad]

I posted this elsewhere on topix but it somehow seems appropriate here as well.

I am a Christian and I do believe that the Bible is the INSPIRED word of God. I, apparently, was not raised with the same biases that are found on both sides of the argument. I didn't grow up going to church or even having regular Bible studies with the family. In fact my Dad didn't talk much about God at all. He gave us kids each a Bible and left it up to us to read. In my house science was the thing. We watched NOVA and Cosmos and stuff like that alot (there were no National Geographic or Discovery channels back then). My dad is an amature astronomer and a hobbyist fossil hunter. Our house was filled with books about geology, dinosaurs, evolution, early man, the universe, physics, and all that other fascinating science stuff. Whenever I would read Genesis, my imagination would race, intertwining what it said with what I read in science books. Nobody ever told me that I wasn't allowed to believe in both so I did, and it caused me no problems of conscience. It wasn't until high school, when some Christian boy started to spout off creation vs. evolution that I became aware that there were two opposing faction. The nerve of that boy telling me I wasn't a Christian because I accept evolution as a fact. He was offended that I could believe we came from monkeys (I hate it when misguided Christians say that). Well, I just wrote a nice article for the school newspaper about the misconception some Christians have about evolution. I explained that we did not come from monkeys but that we descended from a common ancestor to apes. I explained in the article that it was entirely possible for a Christian to accept evolution. Anyway, they printed it - I bet they wouldn't do THAT these days. After that I got to hear views from both sides. Apparently I am a strange kind of Christian.

[Kerdy 1]

Paul Zannucci wrote:

Who are you to tell God how He created man?

We dont, He told us how He did it.

Paul Zannucci wrote:

Who are you to police other Christian's opinions?

We are told to hold each other accountable in scripture. Its our duty.

Paul Zannucci wrote:

Where is the love? Where is the message of God?

The message of God is the love. If we didnt love, we wouldnt spread the message.

Paul Zannucci wrote:

Where is the love of enemies and the caring for one another?

Again, that is why the message is spread. Had we no love for the enemy, we would simply keep he information to ourselves and let they suffer eternity seperated from God. The love for one another is something that needs to be worked on. Not exactly where it should be. That is a problem of society though, IMO. Being worried more for yourself than the whole.

[Kerdy 1]

Paul Zannucci wrote:

Why must Christians bash other Christians who believe that much of Genesis is a God-inspired parable?

They shouldnt "bash" each other, but my question is why would it be a parable? There must be a lesson within a parable and the only one I can see is that God created everything in a certain way, which is no parable. In the end, it really makes no difference because that isnt what keeps a person from salvation. There will always be debate on some parts of scripture.

Paul Zannucci wrote:

Where does Christ tell us to argue amongst ourselves and utter harsh words of condemnation?

He doesnt, but as stated before, he does tell us to hold each other accountable. Sometimes that does bring harsh words, but it shouldnt be the norm.

[Kerdy 1]

Paul Zannucci wrote:

I can tell you that most of the Christians on message boards appear, certainly, to have no love in their hearts. Only paranoid and angry agendas that look very like the paranoid and angry agendas of the atheists they argue with.

I have seen this but not in a way I would say most. Certainly some, but I feel most are genuine.

Paul Zannucci wrote:

If we don't bring the love back to Christianity, which left with the arrival of mondern fundamentalism, then we are lost.

You realize that modern fundamentalism is kind of an oxymoron? Anyway, you cant only teach the good things from scripture. It defeats the whole purpose of the entirety of the bible. The bad must also be taught. God is love, yes, but he is also a vengeful God. The love and compassion must be spread, but the truth must come with it or the purpose is lost and people will only see it as another "nice way to live". The loss of love left when we moved away from fundamentalism. Look at the highest point of faith in this country and look at the accompanying components. Conservatism, fundmental faith based values, etc. We lost those and as a result, lost the love. The black community used to be stronger in their faith than the white community. It is painfully obvious that is not the case today.

[Kerdy 1]

Paul Zannucci wrote:

Just for the record, Wayne, it's not you I'm talking about here. On my site, I wrote a comment to someone else saying that I believed that the Earth was several billion years old and that God created man through evolution. I then had to spend a portion of each day deleting posts from people who felt God had given them the power to condemn me to hell. Not only that, but my personal email is attached to that site so I was receiving emails at home over it. Some were so angry it was almost scary.
I want to make perfectly crystal clear the following sentiment: The road to hell is not paved with misconceptions about the book of Genesis. But all these people who hate in the name of Christ? I can only wish for them that there is no God at all. It would be better for them to be devoured by nothingness than to face what is coming.

I understand your view point better now. Thank you for sharing. You are, of course, correct. Many people have no idea what Christian really means today. They think its something different than its true meaning.

[Kerdy 1]

Writing in Paradise wrote:

<quoted text>
That never happened. I swear, it's like you religious wackos can't even think.

Well, I'll be honest. I have no idea which of you is correct here on this subject matter.

[Kerdy 1]

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
I use some pretty harsh language here myself BUT only to those who sling it at me first. I too have no problem with a billions of years old earth and universe BUT I do believe the creation story of Genesis to be literally true.

I will only say that who knows how long Adam and Eve were here before they sinned. I dont know about billions or even millions, but very possibly thousands. Who knows? Scripture does talk about the 70 weeks of Daniel. Going by that, the Earth can only be thousands of years old, or did I miss something.

[Kerdy 1]

Dryad wrote:

I posted this elsewhere on topix but it somehow seems appropriate here as well.
I am a Christian and I do believe that the Bible is the INSPIRED word of God. I, apparently, was not raised with the same biases that are found on both sides of the argument. I didn't grow up going to church or even having regular Bible studies with the family. In fact my Dad didn't talk much about God at all. He gave us kids each a Bible and left it up to us to read. In my house science was the thing. We watched NOVA and Cosmos and stuff like that alot (there were no National Geographic or Discovery channels back then). My dad is an amature astronomer and a hobbyist fossil hunter. Our house was filled with books about geology, dinosaurs, evolution, early man, the universe, physics, and all that other fascinating science stuff. Whenever I would read Genesis, my imagination would race, intertwining what it said with what I read in science books. Nobody ever told me that I wasn't allowed to believe in both so I did, and it caused me no problems of conscience. It wasn't until high school, when some Christian boy started to spout off creation vs. evolution that I became aware that there were two opposing faction. The nerve of that boy telling me I wasn't a Christian because I accept evolution as a fact. He was offended that I could believe we came from monkeys (I hate it when misguided Christians say that). Well, I just wrote a nice article for the school newspaper about the misconception some Christians have about evolution. I explained that we did not come from monkeys but that we descended from a common ancestor to apes. I explained in the article that it was entirely possible for a Christian to accept evolution. Anyway, they printed it - I bet they wouldn't do THAT these days. After that I got to hear views from both sides. Apparently I am a strange kind of Christian.

Arent we all a little strange, lol? Listen, I would jump on it 100% if it actualy made sense and seemed right to me, but the truth is, it doesnt. I cant see how both could be accurate, especially when evolution has so many mistakes and holes in it. Every year something changes or a correction is made which tells me it was wrong in the first place. With the biblical discription, there is no change. God spoke and it was. I realize this is a human thing, but for the life of me, I cant imagine why God would use evolution. What purpose would it serve? Why would He use it if all He had to do was speak us into existance? Maybe He did, but I dont see the connection or any evidence to support it.

[Writing in Paradise]

Kerdy 1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, I'll be honest. I have no idea which of you is correct here on this subject matter.

http://www.aboutdarwin.com/darwin/Children.ht...

Darwin's children went on to become notable scientists.

[Paul Zannucci]

I don't want to get further into this. Belief in a literal interpretation of Genesis and Creationism is fine with me. But I want everyone to know that it is okay to believe the other way. We are not required to believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis in order to be Christians.

To me, the creation story tells that this is God's universe and world and that He created us and so everything owes itself to God. And that, beyond that, God created us (either instantly or via evolution) in His image, which gives us a knowledge of right and wrong and puts more responsibility upon us.

Through the creation and Garden of Eden story, we are told that God is the creator of all, that we are included in that, that we are naturally sinners, and that God expects obedience anyway, or He may punish us.

Those same things are told by the story whether you believe that it is literal history or parable, so I don't see the problem. The Bible is chock full of parables. BRJHWH spoke in parables in many of his lessons. If BRJHWH made such an extensive use of parables, why not his Father JHWH?

[Kerdy 1]

Paul Zannucci wrote:

I don't want to get further into this. Belief in a literal interpretation of Genesis and Creationism is fine with me. But I want everyone to know that it is okay to believe the other way. We are not required to believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis in order to be Christians.

No, but its a darn good start.

[Devoted Cutie Pie]

I believe that there is scientific evidences of evolution on His creations.
We all know about the evolution in elephants and tigers...
Adaptation takes place to survive in the environment..
BUt when it comes to human,,I do not think of the fish or monkeys are my far lost relatives.......What about u???

[Kerdy 1]

Devoted Cutie Pie wrote:

I believe that there is scientific evidences of evolution on His creations.
We all know about the evolution in elephants and tigers...
Adaptation takes place to survive in the environment..
BUt when it comes to human,,I do not think of the fish or monkeys are my far lost relatives.......What about u???

Adaptation and evolution are two different things. What you are talking about is how a species adapts to its environment and results in many different sub species, like all the different elephants we have. There is nothing that says elephants came from, oh I dont know, a pig or anything else.

Evolution would say that instead of adapting to your environment and creating a sub species within the species, something would change altogether into a completely new species. For that, there is NO proof at all.

[Paul Zannucci]

Kerdy 1 wrote:

<quoted text>
No, but its a darn good start.

Actually, demanding that an allegory be seen as literal history despite all evidence to the contrary is not exactly a good start in my book.

[SisTeresa]

Perhaps it would help if we all look forward on the subject with some hope. In Christianity I think some things got fuzzy in the middle when it was used for political reasons. This in no way can take away from the message, it has always been the same and it will always be the same, regardless of how it's preached.
Science does tend to correct itself, eventually. So much of what I learned in school is now defunct. My biggest fear is that it, too will suffer at the hands of politics. Herein, too lies the truth and it will not go undiscovered.

As Christians, we know where the Truth is. Some will say "is here" but in no wise does it change where it trully exists. We all want to really know, what is the best way? What is the truth? What is the meaning of life? We want to be right, we want the truth of it. Mankind ponders these things, and there is a myriad of information on what is and isn't to sort through.
But at the end of the day, the answer is plain and simple, perhaps too much so for us as people. Jesus IS the Way, the Truth, the Light.
I don't know that science can ever substantiate that. I do think that someday, science will find itself undeniably face to face with God.

[Kerdy 1]

http://www.ldolphin.org/wmwilliams.html

Long but interesting reading. Worth the time.