Second crash in 3 weeks for an EC-135 helicopter -- Air and Spa...

The Lehigh Valley Hospital MedEvac helicopter that crashed Friday in Pottsville was the second accident involving a Eurocopter EC-135 in the last three weeks, but the contractor that owned both aircraft doesn't ... Full Story
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Terry of Pennsburg

Allentown, PA

#1 Jun 2, 2008
Hmmm! Sounds to me suspicious, since all of the accidents that was mention in this article was owned by the same company or the same style of aircraft. I hope someone from the Federal government caught this like I am. Ok, I just hope that I am wrong with to.
Matt_PSU

Paulsboro, NJ

#2 Jun 2, 2008
Let's not assume that these two crashes are related in any way. While it is certainly bad luck that the company lost two birds in one month, there will obviously be an investigation before we can make statements like that.

Unfortunately the articles haven't said much about the nature of the crash.
My My

Slatington, PA

#3 Jun 2, 2008
TV reports were saying that the copter clipped a tree shortly after take off.
Matt_PSU wrote:
Let's not assume that these two crashes are related in any way. While it is certainly bad luck that the company lost two birds in one month, there will obviously be an investigation before we can make statements like that.
Unfortunately the articles haven't said much about the nature of the crash.
Conspiracy Connie

Hazleton, PA

#4 Jun 2, 2008
Terry of Pennsburg wrote:
Hmmm! Sounds to me suspicious, since all of the accidents that was mention in this article was owned by the same company or the same style of aircraft. I hope someone from the Federal government caught this like I am. Ok, I just hope that I am wrong with to.
Very coincidental indeed. I will now place aluminum foil over all of my windows.
mary

United States

#5 Jun 2, 2008
This makes me MAD! My father died in a helicopter when I was 8, due to lack of proper maintenance ( logging hard landings from previous training flights of others) as well as the bolt not being baked long enough, holding the rotor blades in! 10 cents it would have cost!!!!!! I really HATE to see this crap EVER in the papers and news! Pay the EXTRA MONEY ITS WORTH YOUR WHOLE LIFE!
The Scotsman

Allentown, PA

#6 Jun 2, 2008
Would make sense considering they come up over my house, which sets atop a mountain, at treetop level like the pilot is reliving his days in 'Nam. I called the FAA but helicopter can fly at any altitude they want.
My My wrote:
TV reports were saying that the copter clipped a tree shortly after take off.
<quoted text>
CFP

United States

#7 Jun 2, 2008
Air Methods just acquired CJ Systems aviation last year. The Wisconsin aircraft was an old CJ program. Medevac is new to Air Methods (past 12 months). Theoretically, they weren't the same vendor until yesterday, June 1.

Additionally, a few years ago, the Agusta 109s were under fire for wrecks. Unfortunately, mishaps happen, and there are a ton of 135s out there.

Air Methods has a rigorous maintenance program. Mechanical items fail even under the best circumstances. Truth is, they made it out alive and relatively unscathed. Therefore, maybe the survival is a testament to proper maintenance and experienced flying.

Also, the crash is Wisconsin was not a mechanical failure, but what is called "controlled flight into terrain", or "CFIT". In other words, pilot error.

The survival of the crew shows the pilot's experience. It could have been so much worse. Thank God it wasn't...

Since: Feb 07

New York, NY

#8 Jun 2, 2008
mary wrote:
This makes me MAD! My father died in a helicopter when I was 8, due to lack of proper maintenance ( logging hard landings from previous training flights of others) as well as the bolt not being baked long enough, holding the rotor blades in! 10 cents it would have cost!!!!!! I really HATE to see this crap EVER in the papers and news! Pay the EXTRA MONEY ITS WORTH YOUR WHOLE LIFE!
My condolences. That's a heck of a thing to go through (at any age, let alone 8).
Mom of 4

Chicago, IL

#9 Jun 2, 2008
Sounds to me suspicious, since all of the accidents that was mention in this article was owned by the same company or the same style of aircraft.
That's just because that was the focus of the article. A Google search for "helicopter accidents 2007" resulted in over 2 million hits.
Matt_PSU

Paulsboro, NJ

#10 Jun 2, 2008
Well if this one was due to clipping trees and the WI crash was due to CFIT then there is likely no link and the company will be cleared. Is clipping a tree also classified as CFIT?

These choppers have a tough job. They have to maneuver into and out of tight spaces, often in low light. Unfortunately these things can happen, but this time the crew survived.
Larry

Gaithersburg, MD

#11 Jun 2, 2008
Terry of Pennsburg wrote:
Hmmm! Sounds to me suspicious, since all of the accidents that was mention in this article was owned by the same company or the same style of aircraft. I hope someone from the Federal government caught this like I am. Ok, I just hope that I am wrong with to.
Sounds like you crashed before you ever got to english class.
Brian Allinson

Bristol, UK

#12 Jun 2, 2008
The survivors of the crash in the main picture probably owe their lives to the survivability and integrity of the cabin of a modern 2nd generation helicopter. I doubt that they would have survived in an earlier 1st generation machine.
Bob

Hazleton, PA

#13 Jun 2, 2008
Lacking the results of the investigation, no one should jump to conclusions. There are a multitude of things that "could have gone wrong"! Lets be patient, and as I posted previously, any "landing" you walk away from is a "good" landing.
Larry

Gaithersburg, MD

#14 Jun 2, 2008
Kelly7 wrote:
<quoted text>
My condolences. That's a heck of a thing to go through (at any age, let alone 8).
Do you actually believe the nonsense that people write on these blogs?
FYI

Drexel Hill, PA

#15 Jun 2, 2008
They didn't clip a tree.....1 newscast said that and they were wrong. Thanks for playing......
2nd amendment

Allentown, PA

#16 Jun 2, 2008
Matt_PSU wrote:
Well if this one was due to clipping trees and the WI crash was due to CFIT then there is likely no link and the company will be cleared. Is clipping a tree also classified as CFIT?
These choppers have a tough job. They have to maneuver into and out of tight spaces, often in low light. Unfortunately these things can happen, but this time the crew survived.
I was responded to a rescue scene years ago on an icy roadway at night. I summoned MedEvac. It was very windy but not snowing. The landing site was small and the pilot had a tough time landing due to the wind. I was actuall surprised they were available in that wind.

All worked out well for EMS, not sure about the patient.
Old Timer

Bethlehem, PA

#17 Jun 2, 2008
I thought the best was the pic of the downed aircraft with the add next to it for LVHC showing the the aircraft that crashed
Wondering How Safe

Kingston, PA

#18 Jun 3, 2008
CFP wrote:
Air Methods just acquired CJ Systems aviation last year. The Wisconsin aircraft was an old CJ program. Medevac is new to Air Methods (past 12 months). Theoretically, they weren't the same vendor until yesterday, June 1.
Additionally, a few years ago, the Agusta 109s were under fire for wrecks. Unfortunately, mishaps happen, and there are a ton of 135s out there.
Air Methods has a rigorous maintenance program. Mechanical items fail even under the best circumstances. Truth is, they made it out alive and relatively unscathed. Therefore, maybe the survival is a testament to proper maintenance and experienced flying.
Also, the crash is Wisconsin was not a mechanical failure, but what is called "controlled flight into terrain", or "CFIT". In other words, pilot error.
The survival of the crew shows the pilot's experience. It could have been so much worse. Thank God it wasn't...
A few questions: What do you call tons of 135's, since Eurocopter has produced way less then 1000 of this model, in fact the highest serial number of any of them is lower then 700. Of course because of the demand, they've stepped up production and are currently producing a new EC 135 every 3 days or a little over 100 a year. Also according to Eurocopter, Air Methods has only bought 10 of these and now they've crashed 3 of them. Would you feel this is a good safety record, for a company that claims, to have a rigorous maintenance program? Of course they wouldn't have had to perform much maintenance of any of the destroyed crafts, since they all were less then 2 years old and the last two to go down, were in use, under 6 month. I couldn't find any other crashes listed for EC 135's used in the medical field, in the US other then the ones owned by Air Methods. Even though, the skill of the pilot, does have a lot to do with survival in the crash, design of the aircraft, has more to do with, this model is of the next generation, with a cage incorporated around the people with in the craft. I realize that there a lot of other factors involved, but in the other 3 crashes, that I could find, of AM's aircraft, all were caused by pilot error, considering, they don't hire anybody to fly with under 2000 hours of experience, this doesn't seem right.
CFP

United States

#19 Jun 3, 2008
Maintenance is performed regardless of age; it is scheduled, routine maintenance with compliance governed in part by the FAA. Also, Air Methods has acquired existing 135s (not new purchases) from programs they took over. Helicopters are not equivalent to cars, therefore several hundred is "tons". Additionally, the 135 is an updated version of the BK-117, which is the standby in EMS.

I am not defending Air Methods, or the 135s, I have never been a fan of either one. I am simply passing along info. from my side of the business. Also, considering the relatively low speed and low altitude, it is not possible to assume, from our position, that the 2nd generation frame is the only reason they survived.
Insight

France

#20 Jun 3, 2008
CFP wrote:
Additionally, the 135 is an updated version of the BK-117, which is the standby in EMS.
erhh..
It's an updated BO 105.. Was originally named BO 108 and had a 4-bladed tail rotor. Then MBB and AS was merged into Eurcopter and it got a Fenestron and the EC 135 designation.

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