wolverine

United States

#2126 May 1, 2014
Why is there no investigation on the finances of the past regime. Doesn't it seem odd that someone who has basically been unemployed for all this time can so readily post bail as he did last week. The pastor and the finance person has an affair and ends up married and months after unemployment still has money to throw around......seems odd to me...if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...you know the rest.
bUcKeYe nUt

Akron, OH

#2127 May 1, 2014
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spousal_privil...

The privileges may also be suspended where both spouses are joint participants in a crime, depending on the law of the jurisdiction.
Ohio Revised Code

Columbus, OH

#2128 May 1, 2014
Hmmmmm wrote:
So he gives Kim everything she asks for in the divorce and then some, and marries the woman who was handling the finances at the church while he was pastor. A spouse is not required to testify against their husband/wife in court...
I would hope that isn't why they got married. Spousal Communications is only for the time they are married. It does not include crimes that happened before the marriage. It only protects the conversations after they were married.
Really

Columbus, OH

#2129 May 1, 2014
QuEsTion 4 u wrote:
<quoted text>
"If'' any Church was having issues, why would that be humorous?
What's humorous is someone trying to act like people were trying to "serve" when in fact they were there becaus the church can't afford a professional. Just say what is and not try to play it off like you wanted to be super Christians I think the posts are funny on here praising the church when in reality they are hemorrhaging money and losing people. But whatever, it's all in the image...
real estate

Akron, OH

#2130 May 1, 2014
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
What's humorous is someone trying to act like people were trying to "serve" when in fact they were there becaus the church can't afford a professional. Just say what is and not try to play it off like you wanted to be super Christians I think the posts are funny on here praising the church when in reality they are hemorrhaging money and losing people. But whatever, it's all in the image...
What is sad is that Scott and can't sell all the land off to give the illusion of stability and prosperity.

Just Saying!
weird you say

Cleveland, OH

#2131 May 1, 2014
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
What's humorous is someone trying to act like people were trying to "serve" when in fact they were there becaus the church can't afford a professional. Just say what is and not try to play it off like you wanted to be super Christians I think the posts are funny on here praising the church when in reality they are hemorrhaging money and losing people. But whatever, it's all in the image...
170 people served at multiple location not affiliated with the church on that same day. Apparently those non profit organizations are hemorrhaging money too.
Weeds

Columbus, OH

#2132 May 2, 2014
weird you say wrote:
<quoted text>
170 people served at multiple location not affiliated with the church on that same day. Apparently those non profit organizations are hemorrhaging money too.
Bennett is just made that he can't have the lawn company come work on his yard on the church's dime anymore... He is also mad that he doesn't have a yard or house anymore... So who wins?
real truth

Akron, OH

#2133 May 2, 2014
1 John 2:15-17

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
Nonprofit

Columbus, OH

#2134 May 3, 2014
It is illegal to use nonprofit money for personal use. For example buying big screen TV's tax free or having your personal yard work done. This is easy to track just run the run # and see what all was purchased under that # and see if the church owns it. I'm sure The Smiths would never do that. I mean it's pretty easy to prove and I'm pretty sure they would have been investigated by now.
Really

Columbus, OH

#2135 May 3, 2014
Nonprofit wrote:
It is illegal to use nonprofit money for personal use. For example buying big screen TV's tax free or having your personal yard work done. This is easy to track just run the run # and see what all was purchased under that # and see if the church owns it. I'm sure The Smiths would never do that. I mean it's pretty easy to prove and I'm pretty sure they would have been investigated by now.
The Smith's didn't do anything. You just want a scandal and publicity, get over it and move on. There's a life to be lived, so live it and move on.
Really

Columbus, OH

#2136 May 3, 2014
Nonprofit wrote:
It is illegal to use nonprofit money for personal use. For example buying big screen TV's tax free or having your personal yard work done. This is easy to track just run the run # and see what all was purchased under that # and see if the church owns it. I'm sure The Smiths would never do that. I mean it's pretty easy to prove and I'm pretty sure they would have been investigated by now.
The smiths never bought anything with the churches money. Would you like to be under scrutiny for what you posses? Are all pastors supposed to be poor? They work harder than what you could ever dream of. They give their life for the church and the people in it and then you scrutinize them for every last thing they do,no wonder people don't like Christians, I'm almost embarrassed to be a part of it. God bless you all.
Pity

Columbus, OH

#2137 May 3, 2014
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
The Smith's didn't do anything. You just want a scandal and publicity, get over it and move on. There's a life to be lived, so live it and move on.
I feel bad for the smith kids being dragged into this mess. happy to see Paul is making ten times what he was making and so successful and Mary is managing wine and canvas and building her dreams!
Really sad

Columbus, OH

#2139 May 3, 2014
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
The smiths never bought anything with the churches money. Would you like to be under scrutiny for what you posses? Are all pastors supposed to be poor? They work harder than what you could ever dream of. They give their life for the church and the people in it and then you scrutinize them for every last thing they do,no wonder people don't like Christians, I'm almost embarrassed to be a part of it. God bless you all.
The sad thing is that if The smiths planted a church, people like you would follow...
Josie Betts

Columbus, OH

#2140 May 3, 2014
1 AN INVITATION TO FREEDOM Atelevangelist is tried, convicted and sent to jail for defrauding his followers. A well-known pastor admits to extorting sex from his female staff. The Roman Catholic Church spends millions on out-of-court settlements to those who claim to have been sexually molested by priests. A young woman commits suicide after her pastor says she is demon-possessed and there is no hope for her. A prominent Christian leader writes a book calling for integrity in ministry and then is exposed as an adulterer. A four-year-old boy dies for lack of a lifesaving medical procedure; his parents' pastor insisted they not call a doctor but depend on prayer alone. Several couples in a small rural church divorce because the minister says their marriages are outside God's perfect will. The ministry credentials of a prominent theologian and ethicist are suspended after numerous female coleaders accuse him of sexual misconduct. These are just a few examples of a contemporary problem people are calling "spiritual abuse." Actually, spiritual abuse has been a problem for the people of God from the start.' The term itself, however, is relatively new? Trendy and provocative terms such as spiritual abuse soon lose meaning through overuse or misuse. So let's begin with some careful definitions: What is spiritual abuse? What kind of person abuses spiritually? What effect does this abuse have on its victims? What Is It, and Who Does It? Abuse of any type occurs when someone has power over another and uses that power to hurt. Physical abuse means that someone exercises physical power over another, causing physical wounds. Sexual abuse means that someone exercises sexual power over another, resulting in sexual wounds. And spiritual abuse happens when a leader with spiritual authority uses that authority to coerce, control or exploit a follower, thus causing spiritual wounds. Ron Enroth explains further. Unlike physical abuse that often results in bruised bodies, spiritual and pastoral abuse leaves scars on the psyche and soul. It is inflicted by persons who are accorded respect and honor in our society by virtue of their role as religious leaders and models of spiritual authority. They base that authority on the Bible, the Word of God, and see themselves as shepherds with a sacred trust. But when they violate that trust, when they abuse their authority and when they misuse ecclesiastical power to control and manipulate the flock, the results can be catastrophic.3 Spiritual abuse may differ from some other forms of abuse in that it is rarely perpetrated with intent to maim. As we shall see, spiritual abusers are curiously naive about the effects of their exploitation. They rarely intend to hurt their victims. They are usually so narcissistic or so focused on some great thing they are doing for God that they
Ken Blue. Healing Spiritual Abuse: How to Break Free from Bad Church Experience (Kindle Locations 28-43). Kindle Edition.
Josie Betts

Columbus, OH

#2141 May 3, 2014
Most victims of spiritual abuse are loners. However, sometimes they band together with others who share their experience. Fifteen such people descended on a church I once served. They had all spent the previous years together in a congregation associated with the so-called discipleship/shepherding movement .7 Each of them had wanted to leave this church for some time but were emotionally unable to go it alone. They finally banded together and departed en masse. During their first year with us, I heard each of their stories. They painted a consistent picture of their former church. It was rigidly hierarchical. Every member was assigned to a personal pastor who ruled over their lives much as a parent supervises preadolescent children. Each personal pastor told his followers what profession to follow, what car to buy, where to go on vacation and the like. The personal pastor decided how many children a couple should have and how they should be raised. Members of this church gave up all significant decision-making and eventually any sense of personal autonomy and identity. I asked several of them why they willingly participated in their own dehumanization. "After all," I said, "no one held a gun to your head." Their response was uniform. They each said they had believed the way they were being treated was right, and that in the end they would be rewarded for their loyalty and submission. The hierarchical structure of their group was not only oppressive but also addictive. Most of these people became so habituated to rigid accountability that when they finally left the abusing church they felt utterly lost. Every one of them became depressed, some severely. Years later, many have yet to recover. Some of them turned to alcohol and prescription drugs for relief. Several of the marriages became abusive. Men who had been highly motivated, productive professionals prior to their involvement in the shepherding group couldn't hold a job after they left it. As I listened to each story, I was struck by how intensely dedicated to Christ they all had been at one time. In the beginning each wanted his or her life to count for the kingdom of God. It was this eagerness to "sell out for Jesus" that made the shepherding church so attractive to them originally. This church held up the call to a higher, nobler, more sacrificial brand of discipleship. Because they were long on enthusiasm and short on wisdom, these eager disciples soon became victims of spiritual abuse. As we shall see, the most committed believers are often the most vulnerable to abusive religion. But as the Burks say, "The Gospel means life to those who are spiritually dead. The Shepherding movement has increasingly brought spiritual death to those who were once spiritually alive."8 Is There FreedomIs There Freedom from Abuse? In over twenty years of public ministry, I have collected many stories of spiritual abuse. The abundance and prevalence of such experiences gradually led me to believe that the problem of powerful Christians hurting weaker brothers and sisters was more or less inevitable. Not long ago, however, my pessimistic and passive attitude toward this issue changed radically and almost instantaneously while I was preparing a sermon. I had been preaching from the Gospel of Matthew.
Josie Betts

Columbus, OH

#2142 May 3, 2014
As I came to the twenty-third chapter where Jesus publicly confronts the Pharisees about the dereliction of their pastoral duties, I was tempted to skip those verses because they seemed to have little relevance for the pastoral needs of my congregation. Then, as if seeing for the first time what Jesus was saying, I realized that the authoritarian, narcissistic ecclesiastical abusers of our day are the modern equivalent of the Pharisees whom Jesus scolded. Jesus not only exposed and denounced the Pharisees as false shepherds but also offered himself as advocate for their victims. His teaching in Matthew 23 gives hope and instruction to all those hurt by pastoral abuse. Jesus did not resign himself to spiritual abuse. He stood up to it He demanded change. Why should we do less? Once I saw what Jesus was really saying in Matthew 23, I found him saying similar things throughout the Gospels. In fact, Jesus was so focused on the problem of spiritual abuse that it was the only social evil against which he ever developed a platform. It was the only cultural problem that he repeatedly exposed and opposed. This is amazing when we recall that his culture was plagued by a host of serious social ills. Jesus took no public stand against slavery, racism, class warfare, state-sponsored terrorism, military occupation or corruption in government. He spoke not a word against abortion or infanticide, homosexuality or the exploitation of women and children. All of these and more were pressing problems in Jesus' day, but we have no record of his directly addressing them. The modern church has spoken out against each of these social ills. Surprisingly, however, until recently we have said virtually nothing about spiritual abuse, the one social problem Jesus himself seemed to care about most. Instead of skipping Matthew 23 as irrelevant, I preached a series of sermons from it. The response to those sermons (and the tape series containing them) was overwhelming! Dozens of people from the congregation brought me not only their stories of previous spiritual abuse but those of their friends and family. The spiritually abused and abusers began to understand their experiences in a fresh light, forgave (or repented) and received the forgiveness of Jesus and his church. Many reported feelings of intense freedom and joy. Wherever I travel for ministry conferences, I am amazed at the multitude
Josie Betts

Columbus, OH

#2143 May 3, 2014
of stories of spiritual abuse which people now seem eager to share. Church of England bishops, rural Romanian peasants, South African politicians-all have told stories of abuse and manipulation. And in all cases and cultures, the principles Jesus taught (as recorded in Matthew 23) hold the key to healing and wholeness today, just they did for the Pharisees and their victims. Looking Ahead The next five chapters of this book are an exposition and application of Matthew 23. In chapter two well see how Jesus exposes the illegitimate means by which the Pharisees initially gained control over the people: they took for themselves the exalted "seat of Moses." They said, in effect, "Because we speak for Moses [who spoke for God], you must obey us." The modern equivalent of this is the church leader who says, "Because I am `the Lord's anointed,' or the pastor, or the elder, or the bishop, you must do as I say." Jesus and Paul make very clear, however, that no office, position or title automatically carries with it any spiritual authority. The only true authority in the kingdom of God comes through servant leadership. We find in chapter three that it was not just the Pharisees' false authority that made them dangerous but also their false teaching. They taught a false view of God and a false way of serving him. They pictured God as a legalistic judge, favoring those who kept his religious rules and despising those who did not. Modern preachers who make God's acceptance contingent upon religious performance are the Pharisees of today. Jesus says, in effect, that high-sounding religious lies spoken by respected leaders are ruinous to spiritual life. Jesus tells us how to spot false teachers, and this is the subject of chapter four. He says they lay heavy religious burdens on men and women but do not lift a finger to move them. These burdens are laws and regulations that appear to be spiritual but actually paralyze spiritual growth. Evangelical, fundamentalist and Roman Catholic legalisms are today's heavy loads. And those who pile them on people are the same as the Pharisees Jesus denounced in his day. Good shepherds lift these burdens off, setting followers free. In chapter five we discover that the abusive church leader has an ego problem. Jesus says, "Everything they do is done for men to see" (Mt 23:5). For them, looking good is everything. It's not important to be people of God, but only to appear to be people of God. More important than who they are is what people think of them. For this reason they take for themselves honorific titles such as "Rabbi" (v. 7)-or the modern equivalent, "Senior Pastor," "Reverend" or "Doctor." True shepherds need not feign devotion to God, nor do they need exalted titles.
Ken Blue. Healing Spiritual Abuse: How to Break Free from Bad Church Experience (Kindle Locations 108-124). Kindle Edition.
Josie Betts

Columbus, OH

#2144 May 3, 2014
They are known by their fruit. In chapter six we discover an additional indication of spiritual abusiveness-majoring on minors and neglecting what is truly important. Spiritually abusive leaders and systems take uncompromising stands on items of little importance while neglecting issues of significance. They may possess strong views about styles of dress and wine at dinner, for instance, but care little about justice and love. True shepherds, however, make love of God and love of people their priority. In chapter seven we will discuss who gets hooked by spiritual abuse and why. We look at the emotional needs of the victims as well as the psychology of the perpetrators. Chapter eight is devoted to God's cure for spiritual abuse for perpetrators and victims alike. Here we find how the abuser and the abused are delivered from their mutually destructive relationship through God's powerful grace. The last two chapters describe the healthy servant leader. The nonabusive church leader is not weak or passive but strong and full of authority. Yet this authority arises not from seizing power but from serving. Nonabusive leaders serve well by lifting burdens off shoulders, by promoting others, by opening wide the door of the kingdom of God's grace and by feeding nourishing spiritual food to God's people. Several of the early reviewers of this book observed that it seems to be addressed to more than one audience. One pastor said, At first I thought the audience of the book was those who had been spiritually abused. As I read it, however, I found myself looking at the material from different perspectives. At times I was a pastor learning to counsel someone who had been abused, sometimes I was a church leader who needed to guard against the attitudes or actions which could lead to abuse. At other times I asked myself if a past event in my church wasn't in fact spiritual abuse. In fact, the book does speak to a range of audiences, primarily because the Scripture on which it is based is addressed to different audiences. In Matthew 23 Jesus speaks to at least two groups of people-spiritual abusers and their victims. Scripture is often helpful to different groups for different reasons. It is also often helpful to the same person for different reasons. I hope that the same will be true of this book-but I have tried to make it clear which group I am addressing at each point along the way.
Ken Blue. Healing Spiritual Abuse: How to Break Free from Bad Church Experience (Kindle Locations 124-138). Kindle Edition.
Josie Betts

Columbus, OH

#2145 May 3, 2014
Let me say a final word to readers who are victims of spiritual abuse. This book will most likely heighten your awareness of what you suffered and (for a time at least) intensify the pain. If the pain promotes healing, well and good. But if it incites bitterness toward the abuser or an abusive institution, then you will be worse off than before. As angry as Jesus was toward the spiritual abusers of his day, he stood ready to forgive them in an instant. His own power to forgive resides within us, and we are wise to avail ourselves of it. Jesus said, "In the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you" (Mt 7:2). He also said, "All who draw the sword will die by the sword" (Mt 26:52). When someone criticizes his own profession (as I have done in this book), he holds that sword of criticism by its sharp blade so that as he wields it the first blood drawn is his own. I am the pastor of a church and therefore a possible spiritual abuser. In writing this book, I became aware of my own potential to abuse and, I hope, have become less likely to do so. I pray that those who read this book will receive the same benefit. It is the half-Christian clergy of every denomination that are the cause of the so-called failure of the church. George MacDonald Ethics are for dream land. Power is for reality. A leader must have power to control his environment and get things done. A modern business executive The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses'seat. Jesus Christ

Ken Blue. Healing Spiritual Abuse: How to Break Free from Bad Church Experience (Kindle Locations 138-147). Kindle Edition.
Hey

Columbus, OH

#2146 May 5, 2014
Josie Betts - stop wrote too long! People can't sit and read too long. If you want to write too long so writing in BOOK!

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