New Zimmerman Photo from the Night of...

“Where did I put my tiara?”

Since: Dec 11

Columbus, OH

#111 Dec 5, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you want to direct that one to Glitter--the self-appointed expert on what I think and feel?
Really? You opine as do I. Hush.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#112 Dec 5, 2012
GlitterSucks wrote:
<quoted text>Really? You opine as do I. Hush.
I do not recall telling others what you think or feel.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#113 Dec 5, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
1. No violations of rules or authority are at issue here. Recall that Zimmerman noticed him because he was walking in the rain and "looking about." From that point on, it was Zimmerman following Trayvon, not the other way around.
As usual, you intentionally leave out pertinent information when it may seem to contradict your preferred version of events... you left out the part where Martin approached the truck, then turned and ran. You also neglected to mention that when the dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that", you could hear Zimmerman say "OK", then the running noises stopped... and no mention of when he said "I don't know where this kid is", later.

In short, you are disingenuous and dishonest.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#114 Dec 5, 2012
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, you intentionally leave out pertinent information when it may seem to contradict your preferred version of events... you left out the part where Martin approached the truck, then turned and ran. You also neglected to mention that when the dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that", you could hear Zimmerman say "OK", then the running noises stopped... and no mention of when he said "I don't know where this kid is", later.
In short, you are disingenuous and dishonest.
I'm sorry, what rule or authority is violated by approaching a parked vehicle and then running?

A number of people have laid out detailed overlays of the phone call tape with Zimmerman's walk-through with police. The later description by Zimmerman in which he claimed that Trayvon circled the vehicle do not match up with the time/place at which Zimmerman was located. So the likelihood is that Zimmerman pumped up that description to make it appear more menacing and also moved it. What seems more likely--triangulating the two sources--is that Trayvon walked past the parked vehicle (by the clubhouse, which was on Trayvon's most direct path back home)--looking at Zimmerman--then Zimmerman followed him in the truck (supported by background sounds on the tape), spurring Trayvon to run, and Zimmerman to get out and follow on foot--stopping because he lost him (and coinciding with the dispatcher telling him not to follow). However, he is distracted from that point, seeming to indicate that he continues to look--even though he is no longer running. And that is when he tells them to call when they arrive--indicating that he intended to keep moving.

We have been through this all before.

He also added details (not supported by the tape) about the dispatcher telling him to keep Trayvon in sight (the dispatcher did not say this--or anything like it), and insisting that he provide an address (which he claims was the reason that he left the truck--changing his story to say that he was never really following Trayvon--only walking in the same direction), although this also did not happen.
LaToya

Springfield, OH

#115 Dec 5, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, what rule or authority is violated by approaching a parked vehicle and then running?
A number of people have laid out detailed overlays of the phone call tape with Zimmerman's walk-through with police. The later description by Zimmerman in which he claimed that Trayvon circled the vehicle do not match up with the time/place at which Zimmerman was located. So the likelihood is that Zimmerman pumped up that description to make it appear more menacing and also moved it. What seems more likely--triangulating the two sources--is that Trayvon walked past the parked vehicle (by the clubhouse, which was on Trayvon's most direct path back home)--looking at Zimmerman--then Zimmerman followed him in the truck (supported by background sounds on the tape), spurring Trayvon to run, and Zimmerman to get out and follow on foot--stopping because he lost him (and coinciding with the dispatcher telling him not to follow). However, he is distracted from that point, seeming to indicate that he continues to look--even though he is no longer running. And that is when he tells them to call when they arrive--indicating that he intended to keep moving.
We have been through this all before.
He also added details (not supported by the tape) about the dispatcher telling him to keep Trayvon in sight (the dispatcher did not say this--or anything like it), and insisting that he provide an address (which he claims was the reason that he left the truck--changing his story to say that he was never really following Trayvon--only walking in the same direction), although this also did not happen.
That's a great post, Reader, very insightful and well written. People could learn so much from you if their minds weren't so fearful and distrustful of people of color regardless of background or education.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#116 Dec 5, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, what rule or authority is violated by approaching a parked vehicle and then running?
A number of people have laid out detailed overlays of the phone call tape with Zimmerman's walk-through with police. The later description by Zimmerman in which he claimed that Trayvon circled the vehicle do not match up with the time/place at which Zimmerman was located. So the likelihood is that Zimmerman pumped up that description to make it appear more menacing and also moved it. What seems more likely--triangulating the two sources--is that Trayvon walked past the parked vehicle (by the clubhouse, which was on Trayvon's most direct path back home)--looking at Zimmerman--then Zimmerman followed him in the truck (supported by background sounds on the tape), spurring Trayvon to run, and Zimmerman to get out and follow on foot--stopping because he lost him (and coinciding with the dispatcher telling him not to follow). However, he is distracted from that point, seeming to indicate that he continues to look--even though he is no longer running. And that is when he tells them to call when they arrive--indicating that he intended to keep moving.
We have been through this all before.
He also added details (not supported by the tape) about the dispatcher telling him to keep Trayvon in sight (the dispatcher did not say this--or anything like it), and insisting that he provide an address (which he claims was the reason that he left the truck--changing his story to say that he was never really following Trayvon--only walking in the same direction), although this also did not happen.
A friendly reminder:

http://www.topix.com/forum/columbus/TVSCPEQK9...

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#117 Dec 5, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, what rule or authority is violated by approaching a parked vehicle and then running?
It's called suspicion. Ever hear of it?
A number of people have laid out detailed overlays of the phone call tape with Zimmerman's walk-through with police. The later description by Zimmerman in which he claimed that Trayvon circled the vehicle do not match up with the time/place at which Zimmerman was located. So the likelihood is that Zimmerman pumped up that description to make it appear more menacing and also moved it. What seems more likely--triangulating the two sources--is that Trayvon walked past the parked vehicle (by the clubhouse, which was on Trayvon's most direct path back home)--looking at Zimmerman--then Zimmerman followed him in the truck (supported by background sounds on the tape), spurring Trayvon to run, and Zimmerman to get out and follow on foot--stopping because he lost him (and coinciding with the dispatcher telling him not to follow). However, he is distracted from that point, seeming to indicate that he continues to look--even though he is no longer running. And that is when he tells them to call when they arrive--indicating that he intended to keep moving.
We have been through this all before.
He also added details (not supported by the tape) about the dispatcher telling him to keep Trayvon in sight (the dispatcher did not say this--or anything like it), and insisting that he provide an address (which he claims was the reason that he left the truck--changing his story to say that he was never really following Trayvon--only walking in the same direction), although this also did not happen.
It's well known that one's state of mind (feeling threatened, stressed, happy, sad, etc.) can affect our recollection of the events that prompted that state of mind. And the state of mind at the time of the recounting can also affect what is recounted. As I've said before, I'd be MORE suspicious if he DID recount the same details, time after time, in exactly the same way, without "getting something wrong". That would indicate to me the probability of a rehearsed statement, and hint at the possibility of premeditation. The best indication (that we have) of his state of mind at the time is the tape itself. That is more important than anything he said later about it.
Wait what

Columbus, OH

#119 Dec 5, 2012
LaToya wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a great post, Reader, very insightful and well written. People could learn so much from you if their minds weren't so fearful and distrustful of people of color regardless of background or education.
Uhhh, you missed a recent conversation. Thanks for playing, though!

Since: Aug 12

McMurdo Station, Antarctica

#120 Dec 6, 2012
Pale Rider wrote:
All the Zimmerman attorney's are trying to do, is present their client as a do-gooder. He killed an innocent boy.
The Zimmerman attorney's are hyping this up for a little fame in the spotlight of public opinion, because it is a racial murder. They have a photoshop expert working day and night, trying to make his nose look crooked, like he took a monster blow to his nose. The film within 30 minutes of the shooting, Zimmerman looked like a man that just got out of a cab on his way home, not a bloody brawl.
How many more photos are they going to come out with. Is a swollen nearly shut black eye next. This whole thing is a joke. It is just for hype, like this damn fool story on here. It is as useless as tits on a boar hog. Put Zimmerman behind those steel bars for life, make an example out of him, that will stop neighborhood watch dog thugs from killing innocent children.
Nancy Grace will have the ends and outs on her show, as the trial nears.
The "boy" attacked Zimmerman and beat him, a witness saw one on top of the other bashing the others head into the curb. Trayvon had no injuries except for the gunshot wound and we have all seen the pictures of Zimmerman's injuries on his head.
What people who resort to physical violence have to understand is that more and more people are carrying today. I know I do and I have a concealed carry permit. If I am attacked I am not going to try and fist fight my way out of it, I am going to shoot my attacker(s) and the law in my home state is on my side, just like Florida. This is whether I am in my backyard or on a street at 1:00AM.
Another thing, Zimmerman, whether he was a neighborhood watch or not, has just as much right to be on the streets as Trayvon did.
If any good comes out of this maybe this will raise awareness, among people who feel resorting to physical violence is a quick and easy solution to problems, that the rest of us are not going to be victims.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#121 Dec 6, 2012
Barstool Prophet wrote:
<quoted text>
The "boy" attacked Zimmerman and beat him, a witness saw one on top of the other bashing the others head into the curb. Trayvon had no injuries except for the gunshot wound and we have all seen the pictures of Zimmerman's injuries on his head.
You have some evidence to show that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman (you know, as opposed to the other way around, or Zimmerman attempting to physically restrain him in some way)? I certainly haven't seen any.

Zimmerman's lawyer let fall an interesting little tidbit this week in discussing the importance of this full-color version of a picture that has been prety widely available for some time. He made reference to Zimmerman's facial injuries (the nose--not the back of the head) being the result of his face hitting pavement. Interesting because the story up until now has been that Trayvon (without provocation) decked him with a fist, breaking his nose and knocking him to the ground. The evidenciary problem with this is that Trayvon's hands show no traces of Zimmerman's DNA.

BTW--I would also be interested in a source that indicates a witness who reports seeing Trayvon bashing Zimmerman's head (and it wasn't against a curb--no curbs were present in the back yards--just a sidewalk, referred to as a "dog-walk."

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#122 Dec 6, 2012
Barstool Prophet wrote:
<quoted text>
If any good comes out of this maybe this will raise awareness, among people who feel resorting to physical violence is a quick and easy solution to problems, that the rest of us are not going to be victims.
I would hope that it might also raise awareness that it takes a good bit more than a course in gun safety to be able to use a gun wisely. Following "suspicious" persons around and thinking that the gun in one's waistband offers some magical protection is foolish.

From Zimmerman's interviews, we know that he not only followed Trayvon, believing him to be "up to no good," but that he tossed aside a good many opportunities for appropriate confrontations--such as rolling down the window and initiating a conversation while still on the phone to the police. Such as introducing himself and explaining why he was following (when, according to him, Trayvon asked "do you have a problem?"). At no point did Zimmerman ever (according to his own account) ask Trayvon who he was, where he was going, or attempt to introduce himself as a neighbor or block-watch member and share his concerns.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#123 Dec 6, 2012
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's called suspicion. Ever hear of it?
<quoted text>
Ah.

And is this code of suspicion written up anywhere?

Speaking in legal terms, what does suspicion look like?

And, is it suspicious to follow a 17 year old kid around?

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#124 Dec 6, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
You have some evidence to show that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman (you know, as opposed to the other way around, or Zimmerman attempting to physically restrain him in some way)? I certainly haven't seen any.
Somebody injured someone, and since Martin had no injuries...
Telgin

Valley City, OH

#125 Dec 6, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah.
And is this code of suspicion written up anywhere?
Speaking in legal terms, what does suspicion look like?
And, is it suspicious to follow a 17 year old kid around?
Suspicion looks like a seventeen year old who puts up his hoodie and slinks away, into the dark, in a neighborhood he does not live in, trying to get out of answering a couple simple questions and then decides the best course of action is to bash an adults head into the pavement followed by a string of punches to the face, to the point where the adult thinks he is going to be killed and decides to get this animal off of him, one way or the other.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#126 Dec 6, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah.
And is this code of suspicion written up anywhere?
Just in every English dictionary on the planet.
Speaking in legal terms, what does suspicion look like?
It is a state of mind, just like joy or apprehension.
And, is it suspicious to follow a 17 year old kid around?
Depends on the circumstances. If I approached someone then turned and ran, I wouldn't be especially surprised if that person was suspicious and attempted to find out what I was up to.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#127 Dec 6, 2012
And if you want to challenge the legal veracity of "suspicion", I would submit that without it, 99% of all arrests would never be made.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#128 Dec 6, 2012
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Somebody injured someone, and since Martin had no injuries...
Ahhh, you are making assumptions.

The evidence shows that Zimmerman was injured. You assume that the mechanism for injury was Trayvon's fist. Now--given the absence of Zimmerman's DNA on Trayvon's hands, it is prudent to look for other injury producing mechanisms.

O'Mara this week suggested facial contact with the sidewalk. Did Zimmerman trip and fall? Why concoct a story about being punched in the face?

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#129 Dec 6, 2012
Telgin wrote:
<quoted text>Suspicion looks like a seventeen year old who puts up his hoodie and slinks away, into the dark, in a neighborhood he does not live in, trying to get out of answering a couple simple questions and then decides the best course of action is to bash an adults head into the pavement followed by a string of punches to the face, to the point where the adult thinks he is going to be killed and decides to get this animal off of him, one way or the other.
You assume plenty.

1) That anyone was asking simple questions (Zimmerman himself says no).

2) That Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the face, a prospect that seems to be growing dimmer not only due to the lack of supportive DNA evidence, but also due to O'Mara's reference this week to Zimmerman hitting his face on the sidewalk.

3) That Zimmerman is telling the truth about what happened.

“animis opibusque parati”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#130 Dec 6, 2012
^^Make it stop.^^

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#131 Dec 6, 2012
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Just in every English dictionary on the planet.
<quoted text>
It is a state of mind, just like joy or apprehension.
<quoted text>
Depends on the circumstances. If I approached someone then turned and ran, I wouldn't be especially surprised if that person was suspicious and attempted to find out what I was up to.
A state of mind is not something that can be followed, like a rule, nor respected as an authority.

No rule was disrespected or violated.

You assume that Trayvon "turned" and ran. What seems to better fit with the evidence gleaned from combining Zimmerman's walk-through with the tape of the phone call, is that Trayvon approached where Zimmerman was parked, looking at Zimmerman, and after passing by, broke into a run. Hardly suspicious.

Recall that Zimmerman claims it was suspicious that Trayvon was NOT running, given the inclement behavior.

However, I cannot imagine a circumstance under which Zimmerman following Trayvon would not prudently be considered suspicious behavior.

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