Britneys dad Chuckn

Valley City, OH

#128 Jul 31, 2012
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Come talk to me when you have something of substance to say. I don't involve myself in pointless conversations with bumbling idiots whose IQs are well below my own.
Typical. Just ignore the truth and lash out with meaningless insults that no one really cares about. Scumbag.
Walt

Aberdeen, OH

#129 Jul 31, 2012
Britneys dad Chuckn wrote:
<quoted text>Typical. Just ignore the truth and lash out with meaningless insults that no one really cares about. Scumbag.
I see George is preparing to kill another day on Topix..

The nursing home life is really boring, isn't it, george??:)

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#130 Jul 31, 2012
Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
I was referring to the exchange between Zimmerman and Martin. Why are you following me? Reply, why are you here?. Now it is impossible to know who was in front of who but it's safe to say they were facing each other and at relatively close range to be able to speak to one another. Can you say Martin did not confront Zimmerman? According to the exchange, he initiated the conversation.
But Zimmerman claims that the conversation went very differently. He recounts that Trayvon approached him (from behind)saying, "you gotta problem with me (homey/mf/whatever--depending on the version you listen to)? And then as Zimmerman fumbled for his phone, Trayvon said "you got one now" followed by breaking Zimmerman's nose, pinning him to the ground and banging his head to the pavement, followed by hands over his mouth and nose. And so forth.

My big problem (in addition to the conflict with what was reported as having been heard over the phone) is that this just does not make any sense. Now, a lot of people have been eating it up. But, to make sense, one first has to have swallowed an assumption that young people (or young black men more specifically) wander at random looking for people to beat up on. If one has already accepted this, or even that such persons are routinely rude and disrespect authority (particularly white authority), then is is only a short step to believing that Trayvon--on his way home from the store--just decided to jump on a white guy and try to kill him.

But somehow this set of beliefs, in many minds, completely outweighs what, in another circumstance--such as a white kid on a bicycle coming home from Bible study, most would regard as creepy behavior. He targetted a kid who was walking home and he followed him--first in his vehicle and then on foot. The fact that he had also called the police was not known to Trayvon. It serves to substantiate that he was not bent on the kinds of things one might suspect from such behavior--but it also underlines that he thought that he was out to catch a bad guy, with absolutely no evidence that this was the case.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#131 Jul 31, 2012
Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't know whether stayed near his car or not for certain. If I remember correctly while Zimmerman was talking to police you could hear the distinct sound of wind as in blowing or one moving while speaking. When the police said, you don't need to do that (a suggestion, not an order) and Zimmerman replied O.K., the wind sound stopped. If one was an indication he was following, the other would have to mean he stopped.
He also said at that point that he had lost him.

In the following conversation, about whether the police should still come out and where to meet Zimmerman, he sounds distracted--as if he is eager to stop talking and sneak around looking for Trayvon. I believe that is when he gets evasive about his exact location and asks the police to just call him (which doesn't fit with his claim that he only left his vehicle to go check the address on a house one street over.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#132 Jul 31, 2012
Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
You also point out that Martin had no violent history. We don't know that because he was a minor and juvenile offenses are usually sealed. We do know that a person as you described felt brave enough to fight with an older person rather than run, wait for it..........home a block or so away.
We have a pretty good idea, as his school records were leaked, and there were no incidents of violence.

While any juvenile offenses might be sealed, I doubt that they were off-limits to the police in their investigation. And they would have gone to the prosecution who would have been required to provide them to the defense during discovery. And they would be out by now. I also don't recall seeing that juvenile records were on the list of documents not required to be released to the public.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Walled Lake, MI

#133 Jul 31, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
He also said at that point that he had lost him.
In the following conversation, about whether the police should still come out and where to meet Zimmerman, he sounds distracted--as if he is eager to stop talking and sneak around looking for Trayvon. I believe that is when he gets evasive about his exact location and asks the police to just call him (which doesn't fit with his claim that he only left his vehicle to go check the address on a house one street over.
All interesting points...

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#134 Jul 31, 2012
Conservative wrote:
As a follow up. The gun is always brought up. During everyone's speculation the gun never played a role. Zimmerman following Martin, not following Martin. Martin never said to his unconcerned girlfriend, I think he has a gun. In the encounter, no mention of a gun. When the witness saw Martin (who had no violent history but maybe just snapped) on top of Zimmerman hitting him, he does not mention a gun.
The gun appears in the last fatal moment. How and why, we'll never know with certainty.
To me that showed restraint on the behalf of someone intent on detaining another. An armed man never produced a weapon until the fatal moment.
The witnesses report some difficulty in even identifying who was on top--mostly relying on the color of clothing. It was dusk on a rainy day--meaning near darkness. I don't know that they would have been able to see a gun--particularly if the two were wrestling for it.

The last thing that the phone witness heard (and I'm not entirely clear this was actually a girlfriend--hard to tell in that age group anyway) was something thud-like (I forget how she described it) followed by the earpiece falling and then the phone going dead.

From that point there are many possibilities. Maybe Trayvon gave a shove and started to run, but was tackled by Zimmerman. Maybe Zimmerman was trying out police tactics and grabbed Trayvon to put him in some kind of hold but Trayvon wrestled free and started fighting. Maybe Zimmerman wasn't reaching for his phone but for his gun. Maybe Zimmerman was reaching for his phone but Trayvon THOUGHT he was reaching for a gun.

There are lots of possibilities that fit the known facts. The biggest problem is that Zimmerman's story does NOT fit the known facts.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#135 Jul 31, 2012
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
As have you. And unlike myself, I don't let politics get in the way of my "side." I don't care what anyone says or what evidence is presented. The unequivocal fact of the matter is that if Zimmerman had stayed IN his car, Martin would be alive so Zimmerman is, to some degree no matter what, responsible for Martin's death and I'm pretty sure a jury will see it that way as well.
On the contrary, I have not developed an opinion as to what happen. I am merely keeping an open mind (you should try it sometime) as to the possibilities given the current available information. I can conced that Zimmerman may be 100% to blame for this tragedy.

Whereas you admit that you "don't care...what evidence is presented." I pray you are never called for jury duty. The fact is, Zimmerman getting out of his car is not a crime. And another unequivicol fact of the matter is that if Martin had not left the house, this would not have happened.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#136 Jul 31, 2012
Some updates.

Both George, and now his father, have posted websites (in addition to the one posted by O'Mara) asking for money. George's site funnels donations to the existing legal defense fund. Not clear where funds donated to Robert's site go. Robert's site, if you have time to give it a read (it is very long). It is quite long, detailing all of the wonderful things that George has done in his life to help African-Americans. It culminates by telling all of Robert's, his wife's and his mother-in-law's health issues.

They claim to be living a life on the run--though it's not clear if they face ongoing danger, or just a hungry media.

Wife Shellie pled not guilty to charges of perjury.

And neighbor and staunch defender Frank Taaffe was just arrested for DUI. Says he didn't know he shouldn't be drinking while taking meds. I dunno, but don't think meds actually UP your alcohol level--which is what got hiim into court. He also says he is having personal problems. And one article also listed all his priors. Mostly domestic violence (ex-wife, blamed on the divorce) and some co-workers who wanted CPOs (also not his fault--so he says).

I dunno. Anyone else beginning to think there are at least some pathological drama patterns here?

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Walled Lake, MI

#137 Jul 31, 2012
-Just Sayin- wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary, I have not developed an opinion as to what happen. I am merely keeping an open mind (you should try it sometime) as to the possibilities given the current available information. I can conced that Zimmerman may be 100% to blame for this tragedy.
Whereas you admit that you "don't care...what evidence is presented." I pray you are never called for jury duty. The fact is, Zimmerman getting out of his car is not a crime. And another unequivicol fact of the matter is that if Martin had not left the house, this would not have happened.
Another person who only reads half of what is said. What I stated was that I don't care what evidence is presented, it cannot be denied that if Zimmerman had stayed in his car, none of this would have happened.

Yes, I'm allowed to have an opinion. And my opinion is based on the testimony of Zimmerman himself, other eyewitnesses and other evidence. After going over that information, I formed an opinion, just like anyone else would do. I'm not apologizing for that. Don't like it? Not my problem. My opinion doesn't affect you, Zimmerman or anyone else.

The big difference between Martin leaving his house and Zimmerman leaving his car is that Martin didn't leave looking to harass or follow anyone. Zimmerman did.
Wait what

Dublin, OH

#138 Jul 31, 2012
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Another person who only reads half of what is said. What I stated was that I don't care what evidence is presented, it cannot be denied that if Zimmerman had stayed in his car, none of this would have happened.
Yes, I'm allowed to have an opinion. And my opinion is based on the testimony of Zimmerman himself, other eyewitnesses and other evidence. After going over that information, I formed an opinion, just like anyone else would do. I'm not apologizing for that. Don't like it? Not my problem. My opinion doesn't affect you, Zimmerman or anyone else.
The big difference between Martin leaving his house and Zimmerman leaving his car is that Martin didn't leave looking to harass or follow anyone. Zimmerman did.
You CANNOT try a case on 'if'.
Wait what

Dublin, OH

#139 Jul 31, 2012
Which is why so many questions begin with "Isn't it a fact" as opposed to "What if".

GAWD.
Conservative

Cincinnati, OH

#140 Jul 31, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
He also said at that point that he had lost him.
In the following conversation, about whether the police should still come out and where to meet Zimmerman, he sounds distracted--as if he is eager to stop talking and sneak around looking for Trayvon. I believe that is when he gets evasive about his exact location and asks the police to just call him (which doesn't fit with his claim that he only left his vehicle to go check the address on a house one street over.
I commented on what I heard (the wind blowing or someone moving while talking and then no wind sound).

It would be fair for you to say in your opinion that he sounded distracted but to continue to assume he wants to "sneak around" looking Martin. That's a leap. You're entitled to your opinion but it's a LEAP.

Didn't he start to and then stop saying something like he didn't want to say it out loud or over the phone because he might hear? I may be wrong on the text of what was actually said. Also didn't the police ask him where he was and he said, he wasn't certain of the street or address?

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Walled Lake, MI

#141 Jul 31, 2012
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
You CANNOT try a case on 'if'.
"If" is in part what reasonable doubt it all about. I do not believe Zimmermen wanted to murder Martin. But if he isn't as least convicted of either negligent homicide or manslaughter, I'll be surprised. I would assume he would get manslaughter because his decisions that night - no matter what happened - led to Martin being murdered.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#142 Jul 31, 2012
Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
I commented on what I heard (the wind blowing or someone moving while talking and then no wind sound).
It would be fair for you to say in your opinion that he sounded distracted but to continue to assume he wants to "sneak around" looking Martin. That's a leap. You're entitled to your opinion but it's a LEAP.
Didn't he start to and then stop saying something like he didn't want to say it out loud or over the phone because he might hear? I may be wrong on the text of what was actually said. Also didn't the police ask him where he was and he said, he wasn't certain of the street or address?
Yeah, it's possible that he actually didn't know the names of all three streets in his area. Although, you would think that someone who claimed familiarity with every kid who lived there and operated at near-fanatic level when it comes to block watch would have taken the time at some point to figure all that out.

It always sounded more to me like he didn't want to remain at the Club House (where he parked to make the call), or commit to being in any one place. When he started to give his address and then said "I don't know where this kid is," that could have been an indication that he thought Trayvon was lurking and listening and ready to go bust up George's house or something. That is the more paranoid interpretation--but I think George is a bit paranoid about the folks that he thinks are out to get him.

A lot of that is open to interpretation.

But, the big discrepancies are his insistance that he was attacked at roughly the "t" point where the 2 sidewalks meet, yet they were found 2 yards down (and George's story does not account for that movement); and George's telling that once shot, that George believed that he had missed and moved forward to secure him face down in a spread-eagled position (but Trayvon was found with his hands beneath him).

George Zimmerman is lying on those two points. And he lied to the court about his available funds. He may also have lied about the circumstances of his earlier arrest (when interviewed by the Inspector). He lied to the court because he wanted a low bond and to use the funds he had collected to pay bills and live on (the judge surmised that he intended to live someone outside the US). He lied about his arrest either because he convinced himself that the arrest wasn't his fault, or because he wanted to look like a good guy.

Those things are pretty easy to figure out.

But--why would he lie about where the altercation started--unless he were really going after Trayvon and knew that he could be regarded as having instigated the altercation?

And why would he lie about the rest, about trying to secure Trayvon spread-eagled after he had already shot him? That one is harder. Unless they really were fighting over the gun and Zimmerman was trying to reinvent the scenario to make it look otherwise, just tossing in that detail out of some textbook. Maybe they were fighting over the gun when it went off and Trayvon fell on top of it and George had to make up a story to account for why he was seen atop the body (recovering his weapon).

That one is harder to account for--except to know that what George Zimmerman says that he did does not match the evidence found at the scene--meaning Trayvon's body with the hands underneath.
Conservative

Cincinnati, OH

#143 Jul 31, 2012
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
"If" is in part what reasonable doubt it all about. I do not believe Zimmermen wanted to murder Martin. But if he isn't as least convicted of either negligent homicide or manslaughter, I'll be surprised. I would assume he would get manslaughter because his decisions that night - no matter what happened - led to Martin being murdered.
I agree he will be convicted of..........something, whether guilty or not. They've already looked into hate crimes but found no evidence of racial bias.

Why are all the assumptions based based on solely what Zimmerman did? It started with Zimmerman was returning as was Martin but Zimmerman thought him suspicious and called police.

That's how it started. Everything else is conjecture. No one committed any crime until one or the other started a physical confrontation. Martin did not fear Zimmerman or was worried about him or the confrontation would never had occurred. They had to be in very close proximity of each other to do so.

No one ever speaks of Martin's Facebook Account. What was on it? What kind of comments and responses were there? How long was it up? There may have been a small amount of info at first but it was shut down rather quickly.

Pretty suspicious to me.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#144 Jul 31, 2012
Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree he will be convicted of..........something, whether guilty or not. They've already looked into hate crimes but found no evidence of racial bias.
Why are all the assumptions based based on solely what Zimmerman did? It started with Zimmerman was returning as was Martin but Zimmerman thought him suspicious and called police.
That's how it started. Everything else is conjecture. No one committed any crime until one or the other started a physical confrontation. Martin did not fear Zimmerman or was worried about him or the confrontation would never had occurred. They had to be in very close proximity of each other to do so.
No one ever speaks of Martin's Facebook Account. What was on it? What kind of comments and responses were there? How long was it up? There may have been a small amount of info at first but it was shut down rather quickly.
Pretty suspicious to me.
Things like Facebook accounts quickly become magnets for all kinds of stuff--both positive and negative. I would imagine that either the police or the Martins' attorney suggested closing it down. It there were anything pertinent there (and it is hard to imagine there would be--as Trayvon has not been accused of anything).

Apparently Zimmerman's attorneys were a bit less savvy and his MySpace page remained available for discovery.
Conservative

Cincinnati, OH

#145 Jul 31, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
The witnesses report some difficulty in even identifying who was on top--mostly relying on the color of clothing. It was dusk on a rainy day--meaning near darkness. I don't know that they would have been able to see a gun--particularly if the two were wrestling for it.
The last thing that the phone witness heard (and I'm not entirely clear this was actually a girlfriend--hard to tell in that age group anyway) was something thud-like (I forget how she described it) followed by the earpiece falling and then the phone going dead.
From that point there are many possibilities. Maybe Trayvon gave a shove and started to run, but was tackled by Zimmerman. Maybe Zimmerman was trying out police tactics and grabbed Trayvon to put him in some kind of hold but Trayvon wrestled free and started fighting. Maybe Zimmerman wasn't reaching for his phone but for his gun. Maybe Zimmerman was reaching for his phone but Trayvon THOUGHT he was reaching for a gun.
There are lots of possibilities that fit the known facts. The biggest problem is that Zimmerman's story does NOT fit the known facts.
Did you take the time reread what you unbiasedly wrote?

Everything was aimed at Zimmerman as a person hell bent on being aggressive and poor Martin may have only shoved him and started to run.

Why would Martin think he was reaching for a gun when there was no indication there was one. If he thought there might be why would he or anyone be in that close proximity especially if you were afraid. Another indication if you are correct that Martin did not fear or was afraid of Zimmerman.

I simply can't understand how you can convince yourself of all the possible things that Zimmerman could have done or wanted to do just to attack Martin after he called police and asked them to come check out the suspicious person he saw BUT you can't even imagine the Martin could do anything at all to provoke or instigate the final confrontation.

Did you ever ask yourself why, if in your accounts Martin may have been trying to get away, why he was seen sitting on Zimmerman hitting him rather than running away? Seems to me that is a person who wasn't going to run but was intent on hurting someone, doesn't it you. Of course not.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#146 Aug 1, 2012
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Um, the evidence is in the call to the police department and the officer who told him to back off.
To which he replied, "OK", and the running noises stopped. Can you prove that he followed after that time?

Thought not.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Walled Lake, MI

#147 Aug 1, 2012
Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't see his FB page being shut down as suspicious. If I were his parents, I could see how someone might try to take something on his page out of context or twist it to make him look a certain way. My 16-year-old nephew says some stupid sh*t on his FB page that makes him look a little "thug" (as I guess the trend is these days) but he's the whitest white kid out there, and he's a kid so he says and does stupid things. But if he were attacked by someone and ultimately murdered, I wouldn't want the media distorting what was said either.

You've stated "they" have already looked into the possibility of a hate crime. Who is the "they" you're referring to?

Not all my assumptions are based on what Zimmerman did. I've postulated about Martin's actions as well. I would suggest the focus is more on Zimmerman because he put himself in Martin's path - regardless of what happened.

You can't say that because a confrontation happened that Martin was not afraid of Zimmerman. That's your assumption and honestly, if someone is afraid and feels backed into the proverbial corner, they may lash out. We don't know if that's what happened, but saying Martin didn't feel fear is presumptuous. I would bet that he absolutely did feel fear, whether his actions showed it or not (whatever his actions were, which we don't know).

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