Zimmerman setup on Hannity

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#108
Jul 20, 2012
 

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FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly.
This is one reason that Zimmerman's story doesn't hold up.
According to Zimmerman, Trayvon just jumped him. For no reason.
That doesn't make any sense.
So you are perfectly capable of assigning irrational behavior to the guy you don't identify with and scoff at the idea of irrational behavior from the one you do?

Real objective there, Reader.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Arlington Heights, IL

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#109
Jul 20, 2012
 

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-Just Sayin- wrote:
<quoted text>
You assume he was 'defending' himself from an attacker when there is a very real possibility that he was the one that initiated the physical confrontation. Initiating an altercation is not a reasonoable reaction to being followed.
A possibility? Yes. A likeliness? No. That kid went to the store for snacks, not to find violence. For a kid with no history of violence, I don't see him going up to someone and punching someone without provocation.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Arlington Heights, IL

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#110
Jul 20, 2012
 

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Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
No, not automatically guilty. I read the same information as you. I came to a completely different conclusion and used logic to form my opinion. As I've stated many times ad nauseum, if Zimmerman never got out of his car, Martin would be alive. Therefore, he is responsible for Martin's death.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I don't feel it's a legitimate response, especially considering this man's history, his behavior now and just in plain old human behavior.

You're the one saying it's impossible that Zimmerman put himself in front of Martin and physically tried to stop him from leaving the area he was in, giving Martin a reason to feel the need to defend himself. I have never disagreed with you that there was a physical altercation. Of course there was. But it is unlikely (note I'm saying 'unlikely' not 'impossible' as you have put words into my mouth) that Martin initiated the conflict. And you still won't concede that IF Zimmerman had stayed in or near his car as instructed by the police officer, none of this would have happened. Zimmerman's need to "catch" Martin was greater than anything else to him that night. And if he caught some violence, it was his own doing.

Knuckles-you're confusing me with another poster. I conceded that he had a bruise. That bruise doesn't mean anything. There was a physical confrontation. Of course Martin would have bruises, scratches, etc. on him. If Martin did cause those injuries, then see paragraph above.

You don't have to throw a punch to be an aggressor. You can shove, slap, etc. to start a fight. I think you're smart enough to know this. It is my belief that Zimmerman tried to physically stop Martin from arriving at his destination and Martin tried to fight off the psycho stranger with a history of physical violence.

We can go round and round. I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me. From the evidence, testimony of other people and his own testimony, Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter or negligent homicide.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Arlington Heights, IL

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#111
Jul 20, 2012
 

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-Just Sayin- wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct. And there is also no reason that we can't believe that Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing and Martin, feeling disrespected, reacted violently to Zimmerman's questioning and Zimmerman was defending himself.
However, Martin doesn't have a history of violence and physical altercations like Zimmerman does.

You may believe that. I choose to believe differently based on the personality histories of the two individuals involved. And the very unlikeliness that anyone would start off with a punch to the face when confronted by someone. Regardless, Zimmerman had no business confronting Martin. None.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Arlington Heights, IL

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#112
Jul 20, 2012
 

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Conservative wrote:
In your entire life you have never struck out or knew someone who struck out in anger? If you have, according to you, you are a time bomb. You will strike again.
In your entire life you never came to the aid of a friend who was being accosted? Because the person in regular clothing turns out to be a police officer is irrelevant if you didn't know he was an officer.
Insufficient evidence lies with the officer not Zimmerman and lays questions to the validity.
Agree on Domestic Violence but today Domestic Violence means everything from A to Z and often is used to get back at someone for a multitude of reasons none of which were endangering or true violence. Don't forget the Judge ordered orders for both.
No, I have never physically struck out at anyone, especially a stranger. Nor would I. If someone was messing with me, I'd call the police. I'd also not approach a suspicious-looking person who I felt was threatening enough to call the police and report.

We're not dealing with one instance of domestic violence, but multiple. And other people have talked about his behavior toward women whom he wasn't in a relationship with, but had physical altercations with in public. As they described him, he just "snapped."

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Arlington Heights, IL

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#113
Jul 20, 2012
 
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide a case so that we can understand how this line of thinking is applied to questioning. Thanks.
Learn to read and you'll answer your own questions.
Wait what

Dublin, OH

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#114
Jul 21, 2012
 

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Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Learn to read and you'll answer your own questions.
I know how to read, thank you. I asked you to provide a case; however, you can't, so you throw it back on me with a snarky answer. Very mature!

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Arlington Heights, IL

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#115
Jul 23, 2012
 
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
I know how to read, thank you. I asked you to provide a case; however, you can't, so you throw it back on me with a snarky answer. Very mature!
No, it had more to do with it being close to 5 on a Friday and I wasn't about to spend my time on here like a loser...lol. And also, I vaguely remember it seeming like a rhetorical question, but I could be incorrect. If you would like to present the question again (because I don't keep track of everything anyone says on here) I would be happy to answer whatever question it was.

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#116
Jul 31, 2012
 
Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
A possibility? Yes. A likeliness? No. That kid went to the store for snacks, not to find violence. For a kid with no history of violence, I don't see him going up to someone and punching someone without provocation.
Following someone or even questioning their right to be in a neighborhood walking around does not constitue 'provocation' for most but it very well may have for Martin. I have seen young men react violently to less 'provocation'.

My point is that you have no idea what happened that day yet you have picked a side. You dismiss those facts that fly in the face of your theory and lend extra weight to those that support it.
Britneys dad Chuckn

Medina, OH

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#117
Jul 31, 2012
 

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-Just Sayin- wrote:
<quoted text>
Following someone or even questioning their right to be in a neighborhood walking around does not constitue 'provocation' for most but it very well may have for Martin. I have seen young men react violently to less 'provocation'.
My point is that you have no idea what happened that day yet you have picked a side. You dismiss those facts that fly in the face of your theory and lend extra weight to those that support it.
You are correct about the provocation but that is because they are fixated on Ash-Tray being black. Nothing else even enters the picture with them due to this one fact.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Waterford, MI

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#118
Jul 31, 2012
 

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-Just Sayin- wrote:
<quoted text>
Following someone or even questioning their right to be in a neighborhood walking around does not constitue 'provocation' for most but it very well may have for Martin. I have seen young men react violently to less 'provocation'.
My point is that you have no idea what happened that day yet you have picked a side. You dismiss those facts that fly in the face of your theory and lend extra weight to those that support it.
As have you. And unlike myself, I don't let politics get in the way of my "side." I don't care what anyone says or what evidence is presented. The unequivocal fact of the matter is that if Zimmerman had stayed IN his car, Martin would be alive so Zimmerman is, to some degree no matter what, responsible for Martin's death and I'm pretty sure a jury will see it that way as well.
Britneys dad Chuckn

Medina, OH

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#119
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
"I don't care what anyone says or what evidence is presented."
There you have it. The biggest problem in this whole stupid case straight from the horse's mouth. Simply disgusting.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

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Waterford, MI

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#120
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Britneys dad Chuckn wrote:
<quoted text>There you have it. The biggest problem in this whole stupid case straight from the horse's mouth. Simply disgusting.
Sure, that's what you people do. You cut one part of a sentence out of a conversation and try to use it to prove a point. Sorry, but it just makes you look ignorant. More so than you already do.
Conservative

Cincinnati, OH

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#121
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>Mpnf1979 wrote
Again, the question is never asked, "If Martin had gone home". I have never should or shouldn't have done this or that, I have simply asked and pointed out the Martin had many of the same options as Zimmerman and chose not to do them. The easiest is that if he had gone home, would this had been averted?

I was referring to the exchange between Zimmerman and Martin. Why are you following me? Reply, why are you here?. Now it is impossible to know who was in front of who but it's safe to say they were facing each other and at relatively close range to be able to speak to one another. Can you say Martin did not confront Zimmerman? According to the exchange, he initiated the conversation. Whether that was Zimmerman approaching from the front would fit more with your analysis but if Zimmerman was following, Martin had to turn to initiate the exchange which is more likely. If he did and was concerned for his safety, Why? Why didn't he just go home and if Zimmerman was following would have seen him entering a house and when police arrived would have told them where the suspicious person was.

We don't know whether stayed near his car or not for certain. If I remember correctly while Zimmerman was talking to police you could hear the distinct sound of wind as in blowing or one moving while speaking. When the police said, you don't need to do that (a suggestion, not an order) and Zimmerman replied O.K., the wind sound stopped. If one was an indication he was following, the other would have to mean he stopped.

You appear to be willing to assume Zimmerman may have tried to physically or in some manner detain Martin for the police, why not the possibility Martin confronted Zimmerman.

You also point out that Martin had no violent history. We don't know that because he was a minor and juvenile offenses are usually sealed. We do know that a person as you described felt brave enough to fight with an older person rather than run, wait for it..........home a block or so away.
Britneys dad Chuckn

Medina, OH

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#122
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Mpnf1979 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, that's what you people do. You cut one part of a sentence out of a conversation and try to use it to prove a point. Sorry, but it just makes you look ignorant. More so than you already do.
You people? What does that mean?(neck rollin') Oh you mean people that are willing to listen to the evidence and make an intelligent choice based on facts, evidence and common sense? Not color, which is what you people do. Yup, fact remains that had Ash-Tray not gotten lippy and wanted to be aggressive he would still be alive.
Conservative

Cincinnati, OH

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#123
Jul 31, 2012
 
As a follow up. The gun is always brought up. During everyone's speculation the gun never played a role. Zimmerman following Martin, not following Martin. Martin never said to his unconcerned girlfriend, I think he has a gun. In the encounter, no mention of a gun. When the witness saw Martin (who had no violent history but maybe just snapped) on top of Zimmerman hitting him, he does not mention a gun.

The gun appears in the last fatal moment. How and why, we'll never know with certainty.

To me that showed restraint on the behalf of someone intent on detaining another. An armed man never produced a weapon until the fatal moment.
Conservative

Cincinnati, OH

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#124
Jul 31, 2012
 
EDIT: To me that showed restraint on the behalf of someone DESCRIBED of having the intent of detaining another. An armed man never produced a weapon until the fatal moment.

My bad.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Waterford, MI

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#125
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
But Martin was on his way home when he was interrupted in arriving at his final destination. I assert that Martin left his home that night not looking for trouble. Zimmerman may not have left his home looking for trouble, but he left his car looking for it.

As for their exchange, that's hearsay. There's no way we'll ever know what was truly said and honestly, I'm sorry, but I don't believe a word Zimmerman says. His past shows that he is someone who tries hard to cover up his wrongdoings.

But to continue with your hypothetical situation, if Zimmerman was following Martin, Martin had every right to question him as to why he was following him. Maybe think of it from his perspective. He's a young black man who knows people are going to be suspicious of him and perhaps he was defensive, but maybe he was also scared because he didn't know what Zimmerman was going to do to him.

Why didn't he turn his back on Zimmerman? Would you turn your back on someone who you thought was following you and possibly harassing you? I know I wouldn't. I was followed once and I crossed the street and outright stopped. The guy still followed me. I walked up on a stranger's porch. But I NEVER turned my back on the guy.

It's obvious Zimmerman left his car at some point. Because he and Martin didn't fight inside Zimmerman's car, so there's no doubt about whether or not he left his car. He did.

Again, if Martin confronted a strange man who was following him, I think he was right to do so. If someone where following we, I most certainly would ask them why and try to stop it. Questioning someone for following you isn't a crime.

If Martin has a violent history, sealed records or not, someone would've come forward and stated so. You know this. No one has tried to get their 15 minutes of fame by claiming Martin beat the crap out of them. By all accounts, except for a few minor issues, he was a good kid. Sorry, but I can't say the same for Zimmerman. By many accounts, he was a good guy, but had a short fuse and a propensity to "snap."

Your last point only makes me feel resolute in that Zimmerman put his hands on Martin or threatened him in some way.

Anyway anyone shapes the story, Martin is not the instigator. He left his house to go to the store and was returning home. He didn't ask for Zimmerman to see him and be suspicious. He didn't ask for Zimmerman to get out of his car and follow him. He didn't ask for any of that. Zimmerman, on the other hand, sought out Martin, followed him and wound up shooting the kid.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

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Waterford, MI

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#126
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Britneys dad Chuckn wrote:
<quoted text>You people? What does that mean?(neck rollin') Oh you mean people that are willing to listen to the evidence and make an intelligent choice based on facts, evidence and common sense? Not color, which is what you people do. Yup, fact remains that had Ash-Tray not gotten lippy and wanted to be aggressive he would still be alive.
Come talk to me when you have something of substance to say. I don't involve myself in pointless conversations with bumbling idiots whose IQs are well below my own.

“Ignorance is bliss.”

Since: May 11

Waterford, MI

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#127
Jul 31, 2012
 
Conservative wrote:
As a follow up. The gun is always brought up. During everyone's speculation the gun never played a role. Zimmerman following Martin, not following Martin. Martin never said to his unconcerned girlfriend, I think he has a gun. In the encounter, no mention of a gun. When the witness saw Martin (who had no violent history but maybe just snapped) on top of Zimmerman hitting him, he does not mention a gun.
The gun appears in the last fatal moment. How and why, we'll never know with certainty.
To me that showed restraint on the behalf of someone intent on detaining another. An armed man never produced a weapon until the fatal moment.
There is a lot of speculation there. Maybe he realized Zimmerman had a gun after he was no longer on the phone with his gf. We'll never know.

Unless the witness was right on top of them, they wouldn't know for sure if the gun had been pulled out or not. Perhaps Martin knocked it out of Zimmerman's hand and it fell to the ground. When they were on the ground, Zimmerman easily could've reached for it and shot. Who knows. None of what we think might've happened matters really because you don't know and I don't know and either one of our guesses could be the reality with an equal chance.

I still always will come back to the fact that had Zimmerman not left his car, Martin would be alive.

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