Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#15879 Dec 17, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Reports out now say he lived with his mother. They also say the kook was an intelligent person. He was taking college courses at the age of 16. They also say he as no history of violence in his 20 years on earth. Of course, you know how these stories change with time. I'm just printing some things I heard on the radio today.
Right, he was over 18, lock his ass out & report suspicions to the law. I would have done that if I were in her shoes & I have 3 sons that would agree. Fortunately for society my family never came to that but my grown sons will tell you that I could & did do 'tuff love'.
My sons are now a fine auto mechanic, 9 yrs Navy with 5 yrs to go & a 3rd yr psychology student.
At young ages I entered all 3 & myself into state recognized weapons safety classes (firearms, bows & arrows, knives, throwing stars etc) & we all passed. Two of us have CCDW licenses, the navy son doesn't need one at this time & the other son doesn't really care to get one.
The main point is the 'tuff love' although a parent can do all of the right things & still end up with a loser. Such is life.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#15880 Dec 17, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
How many times have you had to draw down?
Never, but most people who defended themselves with firearms didn't either. It's one of those things that are unlikely to happen to you, but do happen to others.

We had a debate going on during the considerations of CCW's here in Ohio. One argued with me about the practicality of using firearms in our state. To make my point of having CCW's, I explained to him that my mother lives alone. She never drove a car either. She likes her walks to the store or church, and I was concerned about her safety at her age.

He wrote back asking me that if CCW's passed, would my elderly mother carry a firearm? To that I responded "No she wouldn't, but the criminal doesn't know that."

Criminals don't like uncertainty. If they are planning on stealing a car, they would choose one without an alarm than one that has an alarm. They have better odds at success that way. Same holds true of armed citizens. Most of these murders take place in areas where guns are not permitted by law-biding citizens. Again, uncertainty scares criminals.

Even if it was announced that a city decided to have armed teachers or administrators in a school building, that alone would discourage potential kooks like this guy in Connecticut from going there whether teachers or facility were armed or not. Again, uncertainty.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#15881 Dec 17, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Years ago their officers didn't have firearms. Time changed that. Most (if not all) are armed.
GB is less of a multicultural society than ours. Our statistics show people of different races that are much more prone violence and crime than others.
It's difficult to make apples to apples comparisons of our culture than those in other countries. What might work there may not work here. What might work here may not work there.
I think that you are wrong about whether the police in Great Britain commonly carry guns.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/19...

I know you are wrong to suggest the reason that the US has a disproportionate number of mass shooting is our diversity. I suggest you check the race of the last 4 (random number) mass shootings.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#15882 Dec 17, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Never, but most people who defended themselves with firearms didn't either. It's one of those things that are unlikely to happen to you, but do happen to others.
We had a debate going on during the considerations of CCW's here in Ohio. One argued with me about the practicality of using firearms in our state. To make my point of having CCW's, I explained to him that my mother lives alone. She never drove a car either. She likes her walks to the store or church, and I was concerned about her safety at her age.
He wrote back asking me that if CCW's passed, would my elderly mother carry a firearm? To that I responded "No she wouldn't, but the criminal doesn't know that."
Criminals don't like uncertainty. If they are planning on stealing a car, they would choose one without an alarm than one that has an alarm. They have better odds at success that way. Same holds true of armed citizens. Most of these murders take place in areas where guns are not permitted by law-biding citizens. Again, uncertainty scares criminals.
Even if it was announced that a city decided to have armed teachers or administrators in a school building, that alone would discourage potential kooks like this guy in Connecticut from going there whether teachers or facility were armed or not. Again, uncertainty.
Then I have an idea. Let's issue 1 CCW permit per 500 people on a random basis. Less guns and more uncertainty. There you go.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#15883 Dec 17, 2012
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>Right, he was over 18, lock his ass out & report suspicions to the law. I would have done that if I were in her shoes & I have 3 sons that would agree. Fortunately for society my family never came to that but my grown sons will tell you that I could & did do 'tuff love'.
My sons are now a fine auto mechanic, 9 yrs Navy with 5 yrs to go & a 3rd yr psychology student.
At young ages I entered all 3 & myself into state recognized weapons safety classes (firearms, bows & arrows, knives, throwing stars etc) & we all passed. Two of us have CCDW licenses, the navy son doesn't need one at this time & the other son doesn't really care to get one.
The main point is the 'tuff love' although a parent can do all of the right things & still end up with a loser. Such is life.
So true. But the liberal stance is that all society ills can be rectified through legislation. There is no truth to it, but it's their philosophy.

If early reports are correct, the mother did try to seek help for her son. But because he was never a trouble maker, it fell on deaf ears. She was married to a pretty wealthy man and didn't have to work. She could have afforded him proper treatment.

We have 315 million people in this country, and from time to time, some kook like this manages to carry out a multiple deadly murder spree. Is it possible to prevent this one out of 315 million people from achieving his or her goals every year or so? I don't think so. It's just something we all have to live with.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#15884 Dec 17, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that you are wrong about whether the police in Great Britain commonly carry guns.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/19...
I know you are wrong to suggest the reason that the US has a disproportionate number of mass shooting is our diversity. I suggest you check the race of the last 4 (random number) mass shootings.
Those types of murders are basically white oriented crimes. But what about street crimes that kill many more than those mass murderers? How about robberies or rapes? Tell me what is going on in Chicago these past few years? They have the strictest gun laws in the nation, and in fact, was ordered by the court to begin a CCW program. Connecticut was had the third strictest gun laws in the country.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#15886 Dec 17, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Those types of murders are basically white oriented crimes. But what about street crimes that kill many more than those mass murderers? How about robberies or rapes? Tell me what is going on in Chicago these past few years? They have the strictest gun laws in the nation, and in fact, was ordered by the court to begin a CCW program. Connecticut was had the third strictest gun laws in the country.
We are a culture that glorifies guns and death. We have a lot of work to do. Unfortunately, to some extent, we will probably have to wait to pry the guns out of your generation's cold, dead fingers.

But we can start by working on reducing these ridiculous military style weapons from out streets and taxing the ever loving shit out of guns and ammo to pay for the cost of trying to protect the innocent.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#15887 Dec 17, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Those types of murders are basically white oriented crimes. But what about street crimes that kill many more than those mass murderers? How about robberies or rapes? Tell me what is going on in Chicago these past few years? They have the strictest gun laws in the nation, and in fact, was ordered by the court to begin a CCW program. Connecticut was had the third strictest gun laws in the country.
Oh, that an issuing only 1 CCW permit per every 500 people. Good idea, by the way. Thanks.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#15888 Dec 17, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
I think she was asking why the wannabe Dirty Harry CCW guy didn't shoot the shooter but rather let him get off one more round.
Yes. And why didn't the shooter take out Dirty Harry Wanna Be, since he was there to kill as many as possible and he fixed his gun?
If it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#15889 Dec 17, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
We better arm our teachers with M16s then.
But I wonder how Great Britain can manage to have a rather peaceful society without even arming most of their police officers.
Talk about a "Police State" that most right wingers claim they want to avoid.
Think about all the teachers, staff and personnel walking around with AK 47's or AR 15's.
What kind of kids would come out of those schools?
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#15890 Dec 17, 2012
Cousin DuPrees Cousin wrote:
<quoted text>
Talk about a "Police State" that most right wingers claim they want to avoid.
Think about all the teachers, staff and personnel walking around with AK 47's or AR 15's.
What kind of kids would come out of those schools?
The 16 year old usher at the movie theater will probably dig it.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#15891 Dec 17, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
What's the difference between a CCW holders training for use of a weapon in public and that in a school? Nothing. You take precautions be it a child or an adult. There is a time when you can safely use your firearm and when you can't.
As I mentioned, the Oregon Mall shooter was stopped by a CCW holder. While he had clear site of his target, he didn't shoot. Why? Because his training taught him that you don't fire a weapon if you suspect an innocent person behind your target. He saw some kind of movement behind the shooter, but was unsure of what he seen.
This is a lesson called Downrange. Never shoot your gun unless you are positive nothing is beyond your target. If you're shooting 5 yo 8 feet away (which is the range most CCW holders have used their firearm) then it's likely you won't miss your target. If it's more than 10 feet away, a better chance one of your bullets will miss. 20 feet away, it's more than likely you are going to have a miss if not several.
Here is a police clip of highly trained officers in a shot-out. You may want to fast forward to nearly the end. Take note of the range these officers shot and how many rounds they fired off that didn't hit their suspects:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =yxV4L_ng4qYXX
A BIG difference if you're tha parent of one of those kids in school. CCW holders do not have real life training.
I have found that a 38, a 22 and a 357 are more accurate than a 9MM.
Shooter in CT had a 10 MM, which I had not heard of but that is what police reported, in addition to BushMaster Semi and a 9MM.
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#15892 Dec 17, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
So true. But the liberal stance is that all society ills can be rectified through legislation. There is no truth to it, but it's their philosophy.
If early reports are correct, the mother did try to seek help for her son. But because he was never a trouble maker, it fell on deaf ears. She was married to a pretty wealthy man and didn't have to work. She could have afforded him proper treatment.
We have 315 million people in this country, and from time to time, some kook like this manages to carry out a multiple deadly murder spree. Is it possible to prevent this one out of 315 million people from achieving his or her goals every year or so? I don't think so. It's just something we all have to live with.
AGREE!And the press gives tons of air time to situations like this but nearly nothing to nothing at all to the shop keepers or home owners that benefit from the firearm laws.
They also give little to no press to the fact that IL, CA, DC & NY have the strictest arms laws but always rank in the top of those with the most gun/murders. Hello !! Wake up folks. LAWS do NOT stop wire fraud, murders, bank robberies, car thefts, burglaries, assaults, etc etc
Prohibition against alcohol did not prevent alcohol did NOT stop consumption, laws against pot have NOT curtailed smoking or growing pot, Laws against DUI do NOT stop drunk driving. We need to address the causes & treatment to prevent the catastrophic results.
IF I wanted to waste a bunch of students, coworkers, court officials or whomever, Malatov Cocktails would do well. OR use a pressure sprayer of fuel onto peoples bodies, hallways, auto's etc & toss a road flare into the mix & injure, maim or kill countless people. OR create a lethal gas from common household chemicals (which I will not name)that people have to run thru to escape the area while breathing the gas into their lungs & dozens upon dozens will be deceased. Remember the Sarin gas in Japan? The Mustard gas of WWI? Both of which & other gases could be introduced thru heating/cooling/ventilation systems of shopping malls, schools, factories, office buildings etc.
I hope that I didn't give anyone any ideas but my point is that the mentally deranged will find a way to commit shocking levels of death!

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#15893 Dec 17, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Never, but most people who defended themselves with firearms didn't either. It's one of those things that are unlikely to happen to you, but do happen to others.
We had a debate going on during the considerations of CCW's here in Ohio. One argued with me about the practicality of using firearms in our state. To make my point of having CCW's, I explained to him that my mother lives alone. She never drove a car either. She likes her walks to the store or church, and I was concerned about her safety at her age.
He wrote back asking me that if CCW's passed, would my elderly mother carry a firearm? To that I responded "No she wouldn't, but the criminal doesn't know that."
Criminals don't like uncertainty. If they are planning on stealing a car, they would choose one without an alarm than one that has an alarm. They have better odds at success that way. Same holds true of armed citizens. Most of these murders take place in areas where guns are not permitted by law-biding citizens. Again, uncertainty scares criminals.
Even if it was announced that a city decided to have armed teachers or administrators in a school building, that alone would discourage potential kooks like this guy in Connecticut from going there whether teachers or facility were armed or not. Again, uncertainty.
Your parents are not together?
You need to get your Mother a Stun Gun. She could zap the hell out of them, and you too if you need it.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#15894 Dec 17, 2012
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
What's the difference between a CCW holders training for use of a weapon in public and that in a school? Nothing. You take precautions be it a child or an adult. There is a time when you can safely use your firearm and when you can't.
As I mentioned, the Oregon Mall shooter was stopped by a CCW holder. While he had clear site of his target, he didn't shoot. Why? Because his training taught him that you don't fire a weapon if you suspect an innocent person behind your target. He saw some kind of movement behind the shooter, but was unsure of what he seen.
This is a lesson called Downrange. Never shoot your gun unless you are positive nothing is beyond your target. If you're shooting 5 yo 8 feet away (which is the range most CCW holders have used their firearm) then it's likely you won't miss your target. If it's more than 10 feet away, a better chance one of your bullets will miss. 20 feet away, it's more than likely you are going to have a miss if not several.
Here is a police clip of highly trained officers in a shot-out. You may want to fast forward to nearly the end. Take note of the range these officers shot and how many rounds they fired off that didn't hit their suspects:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =yxV4L_ng4qYXX
Why is it you just seem like a guy who is itching to pull that trigger on someone, a real human? Almost like you're wishing and dreaming to find yourself in a scenario, like the mall or one of the school shootings, but I don't think it would go the way you expect it would. You have seen too many movies and YouTube Clips.
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#15895 Dec 17, 2012
Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
We are a culture that glorifies guns and death.
And Islamist extremist don't glorify guns, IED's, & whatever method of death?
And I personally resent your statement saying that this culture 'glorifies ...death"
You need to rethink your words or see a shrink.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#15896 Dec 17, 2012
Pops wrote:
<quoted text> AGREE!And the press gives tons of air time to situations like this but nearly nothing to nothing at all to the shop keepers or home owners that benefit from the firearm laws.
They also give little to no press to the fact that IL, CA, DC & NY have the strictest arms laws but always rank in the top of those with the most gun/murders. Hello !! Wake up folks. LAWS do NOT stop wire fraud, murders, bank robberies, car thefts, burglaries, assaults, etc etc
Prohibition against alcohol did not prevent alcohol did NOT stop consumption, laws against pot have NOT curtailed smoking or growing pot, Laws against DUI do NOT stop drunk driving. We need to address the causes & treatment to prevent the catastrophic results.
IF I wanted to waste a bunch of students, coworkers, court officials or whomever, Malatov Cocktails would do well. OR use a pressure sprayer of fuel onto peoples bodies, hallways, auto's etc & toss a road flare into the mix & injure, maim or kill countless people. OR create a lethal gas from common household chemicals (which I will not name)that people have to run thru to escape the area while breathing the gas into their lungs & dozens upon dozens will be deceased. Remember the Sarin gas in Japan? The Mustard gas of WWI? Both of which & other gases could be introduced thru heating/cooling/ventilation systems of shopping malls, schools, factories, office buildings etc.
I hope that I didn't give anyone any ideas but my point is that the mentally deranged will find a way to commit shocking levels of death!
Relax Pops, those ideas have already fallen on the minds of Homeland Security and they keep an eye on those things. Remember last year they got someone who had in his posession the Castor beans from which they derive Ricin? Can't recall where, but he was in the States. Also hope they are paying attention to our Nuclear Plants and water Supply.
As you have stated yourself though; the 2nd Amendment does not allow for Semi Auto Weapons or High Capacity Magazines. Those are for hunting humans.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#15897 Dec 17, 2012
Pops wrote:
<quoted text> AGREE!And the press gives tons of air time to situations like this but nearly nothing to nothing at all to the shop keepers or home owners that benefit from the firearm laws.
They also give little to no press to the fact that IL, CA, DC & NY have the strictest arms laws but always rank in the top of those with the most gun/murders. Hello !! Wake up folks. LAWS do NOT stop wire fraud, murders, bank robberies, car thefts, burglaries, assaults, etc etc
Prohibition against alcohol did not prevent alcohol did NOT stop consumption, laws against pot have NOT curtailed smoking or growing pot, Laws against DUI do NOT stop drunk driving. We need to address the causes & treatment to prevent the catastrophic results.
IF I wanted to waste a bunch of students, coworkers, court officials or whomever, Malatov Cocktails would do well. OR use a pressure sprayer of fuel onto peoples bodies, hallways, auto's etc & toss a road flare into the mix & injure, maim or kill countless people. OR create a lethal gas from common household chemicals (which I will not name)that people have to run thru to escape the area while breathing the gas into their lungs & dozens upon dozens will be deceased. Remember the Sarin gas in Japan? The Mustard gas of WWI? Both of which & other gases could be introduced thru heating/cooling/ventilation systems of shopping malls, schools, factories, office buildings etc.
I hope that I didn't give anyone any ideas but my point is that the mentally deranged will find a way to commit shocking levels of death!
Just not true Pops. Check out this Map.
America's Gun Violence Map - The Daily Beast www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/20/gun...
Jul 20, 2012... were killed by guns, 20.2 in Louisiana, 18.5 in Mississippi, and 17.8 in Alaska.... But, again, we found no evidence of any such association with either of ... Having a high percentage of working class jobs is closely 20 Deadliest Gun States, From Mississippi to Arizona ... www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/11/20-... ...
Jan 10, 2011 ... In fact, among the top 20 states with the strictest gun laws, as rated by the ... seven have death rates from guns that are higher than the national average.... with the most lenient gun laws are responsible for the guns used in ... the number of guns, we measured the measure of gun deaths per ...#5, Louisiana ...
FACTOID # 1: South Carolina has the highest rate of violent crimes and ... Number of Deaths Due to Firearms per 100,000 Population, 2002.... Crime in Louisiana .... The area with the highest death rate has the strongest gun control laws,...
Louisiana Gun Laws - What are the Gun Laws in Louisiana? crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/a/gunlaws_l... - Similarto Louisiana Gun Laws - What are the Gun Laws in Louisiana?
No state permit is required for the purchase of a rifle, shotgun, or handgun. It is unlawful to sell or deliver firearms or other dangerous weapons to anyone under ...
The Geography of Gun Deaths - Richard Florida - The Atlantic www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/... ...
Jan 13, 2011 ... Sponsor Content Giving a High-Tech Boost to Public Schools ... Might tighter gun control laws have made a difference?... of Columbia were killed by guns, 20.2 in Louisiana, 18.5 in Mississippi, and 17.8 in Alaska.... We found no statistical association between gun deaths and mental illness or stress levels.
Gunfire death rate in Louisiana is highest in nation,... www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2010/06/gunfire_... ... Jun 2, 2010 ... Louisiana has the nation's highest rate of death by gunfire, with a rate that ... Connecticut and New York, which had a 5 per 100,000 gun death rate and ... all have substantially higher gun-ownership rates than Louisiana, but ...
Richard Schiffman: Guns Now Kill More People Than Cars in 10 ... www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-schiffman/guns... ...
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#15898 Dec 17, 2012
Cousin DuPrees Cousin wrote:
<quoted text>
Relax Pops, those ideas have already fallen on the minds of Homeland Security and they keep an eye on those things. Remember last year they got someone who had in his posession the Castor beans from which they derive Ricin? Can't recall where, but he was in the States. Also hope they are paying attention to our Nuclear Plants and water Supply.
As you have stated yourself though; the 2nd Amendment does not allow for Semi Auto Weapons or High Capacity Magazines. Those are for hunting humans.
It matters little that these thoughts have landed on Homeland Security. WHAT are they prepared to do? HELLO!! Very few such crimes can be prevented, most are reacted to.
WE keep giving up rights that are protected by the Constitution OR Bill of rights OR due process. HELLO!!
Have you never heard that...I would rather 9 guilty people go free than one innocent person be found guilty??
That is the way it goes in a truly free society as opposed to a military/Marxist state.
I would have more to say but it's getting late...good nite
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

#15900 Dec 18, 2012
Pops wrote:
<quoted text> AGREE!And the press gives tons of air time to situations like this but nearly nothing to nothing at all to the shop keepers or home owners that benefit from the firearm laws.
They also give little to no press to the fact that IL, CA, DC & NY have the strictest arms laws but always rank in the top of those with the most gun/murders. Hello !! Wake up folks. LAWS do NOT stop wire fraud, murders, bank robberies, car thefts, burglaries, assaults, etc etc
Prohibition against alcohol did not prevent alcohol did NOT stop consumption, laws against pot have NOT curtailed smoking or growing pot, Laws against DUI do NOT stop drunk driving. We need to address the causes & treatment to prevent the catastrophic results.
IF I wanted to waste a bunch of students, coworkers, court officials or whomever, Malatov Cocktails would do well. OR use a pressure sprayer of fuel onto peoples bodies, hallways, auto's etc & toss a road flare into the mix & injure, maim or kill countless people. OR create a lethal gas from common household chemicals (which I will not name)that people have to run thru to escape the area while breathing the gas into their lungs & dozens upon dozens will be deceased. Remember the Sarin gas in Japan? The Mustard gas of WWI? Both of which & other gases could be introduced thru heating/cooling/ventilation systems of shopping malls, schools, factories, office buildings etc.
I hope that I didn't give anyone any ideas but my point is that the mentally deranged will find a way to commit shocking levels of death!
I wonder if any of your methods of attack would be any more detectable, prone to ineffectiveness and malfunction, or cumbursome than the firearm attack?

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