Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Lodi, OH

#31408 Jul 13, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text> The intent is admirable. But when a House leader can & does say..."you have to vote for it to find out what is in it" , it still boils down to a snow job by one or more INEPT so called representative.
The Dems gave so many deferments & waivers to get the needed votes that the whole ACA started out corrupted & has gotten no better.
The Federal Gov does NOT need to control it. Most of it's properties could have been to the existing, efficiently run companies. Properties such as buying across state lines, pre-existing conditions, & more. That would have likely improved & increased the number of coverages. It would also reduced this bickering polorazation that exist today.
It seems to be a power grab, dependency issue to me & others.
She didn't say that, Pops. You really should do some research on what she said and who she was addressing. You probably still won't understand it, but you should try.
xxxrayted

Maple Heights, OH

#31409 Jul 13, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it's simple for you. You are a truck driver with a high school education. If the GOP wanted to block the ACA, it could have done it. The GOP cut deals to allow the bill to come to the floor and then washed its hands so idiots like you would think it passed over their mighty resistance. You believe anything your masters tell you to believe.
No, they couldn't have stopped it. How could they when they were outvoted? If they could have stopped it, they would have.
xxxrayted

Maple Heights, OH

#31410 Jul 13, 2014
Canton wrote:
It's funny. For a second there, I thought you mentioned our "founder's intent." I wonder if it was our founder's intent to call money speech and corporations people? I wonder how the founder's would feel about religion being dictated by the courts? I wonder if they indented to allow out of country corporations to donate as much as they want to America's political campaigns without having to disclose their source or the amount, like what Citizen's United did?
I don't know, but it would be interesting if we could somehow ask them.

And then I would ask them if they intended unions to infiltrate our governments sending states into hell holes of debt. And I would ask them if they intended for unions to take money from people so they could influence elections. I mean, I can't see any of the founders saying that corporations should not be allowed to fund politics but unions could because unions are people and corporations are not.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#31411 Jul 13, 2014
Nickled Dimed wrote:
<quoted text>
They were right to resist it. Social security does not provide for an adequate retirement, and too many people counted on it and refused to save.
Yes, let's return to the "good old days" before Social Security, when more than half of senior citizens lived in poverty.

"Today, Social Security is the nation’s single most important anti-poverty tool – lifting about 21.4 million people of all ages out of poverty. Social Security lifts about 35 percent of older Americans (almost 14.5 million) out of poverty by providing a regular, guaranteed retirement income. Thanks to Social Security, only about 8.7 percent of Americans aged 65 and over—and many of these are not beneficiaries—fall below the Census Bureau’s poverty thresholds ."

http://blog.aarp.org/2013/07/01/social-securi...
Nickled Dimed wrote:
<quoted text>
Besides which, hasn't anyone told you life isn't fair and it's full of choices and consequences?
Yes, and the choice to enact Social Security had the consequence of lifting million out of poverty.
Nickled Dimed wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not at all certain you are doing your homework here.
Those who have been here for a while know that I almost always document my statements with links to nonpartisan sources.

You, on the other hand, seem to have a lot of strong opinions, but little evidence for what you say.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#31412 Jul 13, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text> The intent is admirable. But when a House leader can & does say..."you have to vote for it to find out what is in it" , it still boils down to a snow job by one or more INEPT so called representative.
That statement was taken out of context, Pops.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-part...
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>
The Federal Gov does NOT need to control it. Most of it's properties could have been to the existing, efficiently run companies. Properties such as buying across state lines, pre-existing conditions, & more.
How, exactly, Pops? Those problems existed for many years, and the "free market" never solved them. Obamacare is a plan, originally proposed by Heritage Foundation, to deal with these problems. As opposed to the "single payer" system, it kept the individual insurance companies intact. Mitt Romney demonstrated that it could work in Massachusetts.
Canton

Canton, OH

#31413 Jul 13, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know, but it would be interesting if we could somehow ask them.
And then I would ask them if they intended unions to infiltrate our governments sending states into hell holes of debt. And I would ask them if they intended for unions to take money from people so they could influence elections. I mean, I can't see any of the founders saying that corporations should not be allowed to fund politics but unions could because unions are people and corporations are not.
Or w could just take a look at what working conditions were like before unions in America, and then stop and wonder how long a civilized nation would tolerate it.
Canton

Canton, OH

#31414 Jul 13, 2014
Yah, it was the unions that created the "hell holes" in America. Not the corporations with the one armed child working 18 hours a day for a company store nickel in the asbestos factory. Hey, while we're at it, let's make George Washington a robot and make it so the south actually won the civil war. Rewriting history is fun. Just ask Rush Limbaugh's children book.
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#31415 Jul 13, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems to me that the dems did much the same thing when they wrote a primarily funding bill that GHWB signed because he saw it as more good than bad. Then the dems turned around & busted him on his "Read my lips"...pledge.
GHWB did get a bad rap on those words. He was forced into saying it by Grover Norquist and the conservative wing of the Republican party, but he was never an anti-tax person at heart. I think he made the right move when he signed the bill, for the reasons you gave. But people like Pat Buchanan used it to hammer him pretty hard in the primaries, and Clinton used it in the general election. It was a dumb thing to say, and that was recognized at the time by some of Bush's own advisers.

"Bush had firmly secured the nomination by the time of the convention, but his advisers still worried about the lack of enthusiasm for Bush in the conservative wing of the Republican Party. Taxes were one issue that, in the words of Bush adviser James Pinkerton, "unified the right and didn't antagonize anybody else."[3] Thus a firm no-new-tax pledge was included in Bush's acceptance speech at the New Orleans convention. The full section of the speech on tax policy was:

“ And I'm the one who will not raise taxes. My opponent now says he'll raise them as a last resort, or a third resort. But when a politician talks like that, you know that's one resort he'll be checking into. My opponent won't rule out raising taxes. But I will. And the Congress will push me to raise taxes and I'll say no. And they'll push, and I'll say no, and they'll push again, and I'll say, to them,‘Read my lips: no new taxes.’”

The passage was written by leading speechwriter Peggy Noonan, with Jack Kemp having suggested the basic idea.[4] Including the line caused some controversy, as some Bush advisers felt the language was too strong. The most prominent critic was economic adviser Richard Darman, who crossed the phrase out on an initial draft calling it "stupid and dangerous."[5] Darman was one of the architects of Reagan's 1982 tax increase, and expected to have a major policy role in the Bush White House. He felt that such an absolute pledge would handcuff the administration."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read_my_lips:_no...

Darman was right.
Canton

Canton, OH

#31416 Jul 13, 2014
It's funny to listen to all these kooks cry about the government dictating to them about health care, but in reality, they want a Christian government, passing Christian laws that dictate Biblical "morality". They cry about communism while gleefully pushing a fascist agenda.
xxxrayted

Maple Heights, OH

#31417 Jul 13, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
Or w could just take a look at what working conditions were like before unions in America, and then stop and wonder how long a civilized nation would tolerate it.
So because they did some good, they are given permission to be part of the political process but corporations not?

Before you look over the fence to see what your opponents are doing, you better look behind you and see what your side is doing before you say Nya, nya, nya, nya.

Most corporations give to both sides. In most cases, one side more than the other, but both parties get it.
xxxrayted

Maple Heights, OH

#31418 Jul 13, 2014
Canton wrote:
Yah, it was the unions that created the "hell holes" in America. Not the corporations with the one armed child working 18 hours a day for a company store nickel in the asbestos factory. Hey, while we're at it, let's make George Washington a robot and make it so the south actually won the civil war. Rewriting history is fun. Just ask Rush Limbaugh's children book.
Oh, so you read Rush Limbaugh's books? Tell us now, how did you like them?
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Lodi, OH

#31419 Jul 13, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they couldn't have stopped it. How could they when they were outvoted? If they could have stopped it, they would have.
You are wrong, TR. They cut deals to let it go to the floor in both houses. Someone already posted that info for you.
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#31420 Jul 13, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
That statement was taken out of context, Pops.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-part...
<quoted text>
How, exactly, Pops? Those problems existed for many years, and the "free market" never solved them. Obamacare is a plan, originally proposed by Heritage Foundation, to deal with these problems. As opposed to the "single payer" system, it kept the individual insurance companies intact. Mitt Romney demonstrated that it could work in Massachusetts.
Nancy's statement, even out of content, stands on it's own. There is no way that a responsible person/representative would or should ever 'buy a pig in a poke'. 2000 pages! and no one really understood what was there? Rediculous, irresponsible, idiotic & more to vote for such a bill.
It was just a rush to get something through before the numbers changed in congress. AND it was not on the web for the period of time that Obama said that all bills would be for feedback. I find that questionable at best.
As to your question,Health Ins companies were limited by law pertaining to selling across state lines. Then there's the very real possibility that legislation could have compelled the pre-existing condition issue, covering birth control (even for those that will not be procreating), dependent youths coverage etc without creating an entire & likely inept political dept that creates a new shell for a government shell game of tax payer funds. A shell that expands the already suspicious autocratic IRS.
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Lodi, OH

#31421 Jul 13, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>Nancy's statement, even out of content, stands on it's own. There is no way that a responsible person/representative would or should ever 'buy a pig in a poke'. 2000 pages! and no one really understood what was there? Rediculous, irresponsible, idiotic & more to vote for such a bill.
It was just a rush to get something through before the numbers changed in congress. AND it was not on the web for the period of time that Obama said that all bills would be for feedback. I find that questionable at best.
As to your question,Health Ins companies were limited by law pertaining to selling across state lines. Then there's the very real possibility that legislation could have compelled the pre-existing condition issue, covering birth control (even for those that will not be procreating), dependent youths coverage etc without creating an entire & likely inept political dept that creates a new shell for a government shell game of tax payer funds. A shell that expands the already suspicious autocratic IRS.
You still don't understand what she said.
Pops

Cincinnati, OH

#31422 Jul 13, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
You still don't understand what she said.

Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Lodi, OH

#31423 Jul 13, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =QV7dDSgbaQ0XX
Exactly. You should now compare what you wrote earlier that you thought she said with what she actually said. Once you get that corrected, we can move on to analyzing what she said to see that it doesn't mean anything close to what you are claiming it does.
Canton

Canton, OH

#31424 Jul 13, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, so you read Rush Limbaugh's books? Tell us now, how did you like them?
No need. After I saw it was about how socialism ruined Thanksgiving, I realized it was just a sick and desperate ploy by the out of touch Tea Baggers to try to fool kids into thinking their racist crap is a viable option for our country's future.
Canton

Canton, OH

#31425 Jul 13, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>Nancy's statement, even out of content, stands on it's own. There is no way that a responsible person/representative would or should ever 'buy a pig in a poke'. 2000 pages! and no one really understood what was there? Rediculous, irresponsible, idiotic & more to vote for such a bill.
It was just a rush to get something through before the numbers changed in congress. AND it was not on the web for the period of time that Obama said that all bills would be for feedback. I find that questionable at best.
As to your question,Health Ins companies were limited by law pertaining to selling across state lines. Then there's the very real possibility that legislation could have compelled the pre-existing condition issue, covering birth control (even for those that will not be procreating), dependent youths coverage etc without creating an entire & likely inept political dept that creates a new shell for a government shell game of tax payer funds. A shell that expands the already suspicious autocratic IRS.
So what you are trying to say is thank you president Obama for the tax break he gave you?
Canton

Canton, OH

#31426 Jul 13, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
So because they did some good, they are given permission to be part of the political process but corporations not?
Before you look over the fence to see what your opponents are doing, you better look behind you and see what your side is doing before you say Nya, nya, nya, nya.
Most corporations give to both sides. In most cases, one side more than the other, but both parties get it.
How about corporate sponsored religion in politics? You ok with that? Seeing how it doesn't mention abortion or birth control in the Holy Bible, which is what Christianity is founded on, what religion EXACTLY is Hobby Lobby injecting into a corporate agenda? Let's flip that coin. My religion says I can't work on Monday. I'm sure the corporations will respect my religious beliefs and never schedule me for that day...right? Sure they would. Anyway. As I have explained to you before, unions are flawed but allowing the corporations to choose what is best for us has never worked out for the middle class, working man. You know this. You are just high on boss man's ass crack.
xxxrayted

Maple Heights, OH

#31427 Jul 13, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
How about corporate sponsored religion in politics? You ok with that? Seeing how it doesn't mention abortion or birth control in the Holy Bible, which is what Christianity is founded on, what religion EXACTLY is Hobby Lobby injecting into a corporate agenda? Let's flip that coin. My religion says I can't work on Monday. I'm sure the corporations will respect my religious beliefs and never schedule me for that day...right? Sure they would. Anyway. As I have explained to you before, unions are flawed but allowing the corporations to choose what is best for us has never worked out for the middle class, working man. You know this. You are just high on boss man's ass crack.
Employers decide what they will pay an employee in wages and benefits, not the government. That's not what a federal government is for.

Wages and benefits are discussed during the interview process. It is then up to the applicant to accept or decline a possible job offer.

Most if not all religions view abortion as murder. Therefore if an employer is forced by the government to participate in those murders, he, she, or they have every right to object. The federal government should not be allowed to force a person(s) to participate in an activity against their creed. Why is that so hard to understand?

As for companies respecting an employees religion, yes, it does happen from time to time:

updated 3/18/2007 12:14:18 AM ET

MINNEAPOLIS — Muslim cashiers at some local Target stores who object to ringing up products that contain pork are being shifted to other positions where they don’t need to, the discount retailer said Saturday.

The Star Tribune reported this past week that some Muslim cashiers at local Targets had declined to scan pork products such as bacon because doing so would conflict with their religious beliefs. They would ask other cashiers to ring up such purchases, or sometimes customers would scan those items themselves, the newspaper reported.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17665989/ns/busines...

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