Is Nevada rancher a freeloader?
First Prev
of 17
Next Last

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#364 Apr 27, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
So maybe you support no wage at all, why stop there, hire child labor to cut corners and bring in illegal workers to lower the wages even more.
Nope. I support a wage that reflects the value of the work supplied. I support twice as much work making twice as much wages, regardless of family size or how many other wage earners are in the employees' homes.
That is exactly why middle class is disappearing in the past 30 years no question about it.
There are many reasons the middle class is shrinking. High among them is the hole many of them dug for themselves by living beyond their means. What good is making $5,000 a month if $2,000 of it is going to mortgages and credit cards? I am better off making $3,000 a month and not having those bills, because my taxes are lower.
US had a strong middle class due to corporations actually paid tax in the 50s and 60s and you telling me we are better off now?
I didn't say we were better off now. But your plan of paying people according to their family situation would only make things far worse.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#365 Apr 27, 2014
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
During the 1950s-1960s the US was the only major industrial base left standing after WWII
Yeah, it's a lot easier to "compete" when your competition is hobbled.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#366 Apr 27, 2014
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, it's a lot easier to "compete" when your competition is hobbled.
http://content.time.com/time/specials/2007/ar...
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#367 Apr 27, 2014
-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
During the 1950s-1960s the US was the only major industrial base left standing after WWII
It was an unusual period of prosperity, not the norm.
Since 1965, the bigger factor driving down wages isn't tax cuts, it's Third World Immigration
There were Third World immigration in 1910s with Irish and Italians and Polish they were considered third world. The biggest factor driving down wages is globalization and the rest of the world is catching up in 60-70s (Japan, Germany etc.).
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#368 Apr 27, 2014
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. I support a wage that reflects the value of the work supplied. I support twice as much work making twice as much wages, regardless of family size or how many other wage earners are in the employees' homes.
<quoted text>
There are many reasons the middle class is shrinking. High among them is the hole many of them dug for themselves by living beyond their means. What good is making $5,000 a month if $2,000 of it is going to mortgages and credit cards? I am better off making $3,000 a month and not having those bills, because my taxes are lower.
<quoted text>
I didn't say we were better off now. But your plan of paying people according to their family situation would only make things far worse.
I never brought up the size of family as a reason to raise minimum wage, if a person is doing a job pay him accordingly. You however think that it is okay to pay a single person low wage if he's not a head of household I found that hard to justify.

I'm not disagreeing with families' inability to deal with debt. I am sure that middle class are shrinking because corporations maximize their profit at the expense of working class. Henry Ford paid his workers $5 a day so they can afford to buy his products thus help grow his business. There are two types of capitalism, free market system that promotes healthy competition and then there is the venture capitalism that sucks the life out of everyone and every factory.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#369 Apr 27, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
There were Third World immigration in 1910s with Irish and Italians and Polish they were considered third world. The biggest factor driving down wages is globalization and the rest of the world is catching up in 60-70s (Japan, Germany etc.).
Half of the 1910s was cut off from immigration due to the war

Wages began their rise in 1924 after the passage of immigration restrictions

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#370 Apr 27, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
I never brought up the size of family as a reason to raise minimum wage, if a person is doing a job pay him accordingly. You however think that it is okay to pay a single person low wage if he's not a head of household I found that hard to justify.
I'm not disagreeing with families' inability to deal with debt. I am sure that middle class are shrinking because corporations maximize their profit at the expense of working class. Henry Ford paid his workers $5 a day so they can afford to buy his products thus help grow his business. There are two types of capitalism, free market system that promotes healthy competition and then there is the venture capitalism that sucks the life out of everyone and every factory.
Ford raised salaries because he faced rapid turnover and heavy competition, not out of altruism or what was then called "welfare capitalism"

The other purpose was to keep out labor organizers

Regardless, Ford engaged in underhanded behavior that would today be labeled anti-competitive, that's how we got to the "Big Three" (govt and unions would aid this after WWII)

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#371 Apr 27, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
I never brought up the size of family as a reason to raise minimum wage, if a person is doing a job pay him accordingly.
You mentioned minimum wage people being on food stamps and medicaid, and since a single person making minimum wage would not qualify for those things, I could only assume you were talking about families.
You however think that it is okay to pay a single person low wage if he's not a head of household I found that hard to justify.
I think it is OK to pay ANY person low wage if that is commensurate with the value they provide to their employer. If they work twice as hard, bringing twice as much value, they should make twice as much. What I don't think is that everyone in a group should have higher wages because some of them might have more mouths to feed. Those people should improve their skills to get a higher paying job, or make an arrangement with another wage earner to share expenses.
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#372 Apr 29, 2014
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
You mentioned minimum wage people being on food stamps and medicaid, and since a single person making minimum wage would not qualify for those things, I could only assume you were talking about families.
<quoted text>
I think it is OK to pay ANY person low wage if that is commensurate with the value they provide to their employer. If they work twice as hard, bringing twice as much value, they should make twice as much. What I don't think is that everyone in a group should have higher wages because some of them might have more mouths to feed. Those people should improve their skills to get a higher paying job, or make an arrangement with another wage earner to share expenses.
So why would you think it is okay for non-head of household to make minimum wage? You said 76% of the minimum wage earner are single or young and it does not affect our economy. That is contradicting to what you just said, if you pay a person based on performance then you should pay him the same amount whether he is 18 yr old or 48 yr old with family of 5.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#373 Apr 29, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
So why would you think it is okay for non-head of household to make minimum wage?
Where did I say that? Besides what I think is OK is irrelevant. People choose their jobs.
You said 76% of the minimum wage earner are single or young and it does not affect our economy. That is contradicting to what you just said, if you pay a person based on performance then you should pay him the same amount whether he is 18 yr old or 48 yr old with family of 5.
What I said was that you people are bitching about minimum wage saying it's not enough to raise a family on, when the fact is that's not happening on a large scale. Of the 24% remaining from above, 15% have one child, 7% have 2, and 3% have 3 or more. On top of that many of them have more than one income in the family. I don't know how much overlap there is, but over two thirds of minimum wage earners have a total household income of over $30,000.

In other words, the number of people raising families on one minimum wage salary is exceedingly small, and therefore not a large effect on the economy.
yes he is a freeloader

Columbus, OH

#374 Apr 30, 2014
He sure is. And what I find so interesting is that if he were black all of you on here that are so quick to praise this freeloading, racist jackass would be tearing him a new one.
You people on this forum are flip-floppers and full of SH1T. And I find most of you thoroughly disgusting.

“Tenured Marxist Radical”

Since: Jan 13

Ivy League-ISIS

#375 Apr 30, 2014
yes he is a freeloader wrote:
He sure is. And what I find so interesting is that if he were black all of you on here that are so quick to praise this freeloading, racist jackass would be tearing him a new one.
You people on this forum are flip-floppers and full of SH1T. And I find most of you thoroughly disgusting.
Google: Pigford settlement

The left cheered on that fraud
Real Tea Party

Columbus, OH

#376 Apr 30, 2014
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did I say that? Besides what I think is OK is irrelevant. People choose their jobs.
<quoted text>
What I said was that you people are bitching about minimum wage saying it's not enough to raise a family on, when the fact is that's not happening on a large scale. Of the 24% remaining from above, 15% have one child, 7% have 2, and 3% have 3 or more. On top of that many of them have more than one income in the family. I don't know how much overlap there is, but over two thirds of minimum wage earners have a total household income of over $30,000.
In other words, the number of people raising families on one minimum wage salary is exceedingly small, and therefore not a large effect on the economy.
You said, if I understand correctly, that since most people who earn the minimum wage are not raising families or they are young, the issue is a non-issue because most people who put food on a table are not making the bare minimum wage so the economy is not affected by the poverty of minimum wage earner.

But even if it's true, why should a single man with no children who perform on a same level as a man with family of five, earn less? Pay them accordingly and they will put the money back to the local community. When you shop at local mom and pop stores, you are helping some kids to buy new clothes, play sports and put them through schools. You shop at Walmart, you help someone's third vacation home. There is nothing more American than supporting local stores over chain.
Real Tea Party

Columbia Station, OH

#377 Apr 30, 2014
I need more than minimum wage. Guess I'll have kids.
Reality Speaks

Columbus, OH

#378 Apr 30, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
So why would you think it is okay for non-head of household to make minimum wage? You said 76% of the minimum wage earner are single or young and it does not affect our economy. That is contradicting to what you just said, if you pay a person based on performance then you should pay him the same amount whether he is 18 yr old or 48 yr old with family of 5.
minimum wage is for unskilled starter jobs.

never was the intent to raise a family on minimum wage.

you need to add value to earn more than minimum wage.

performance is the only thing pay increases upon. Age have no influence upon performance.

performance is actionable and measurable at any age.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#379 Apr 30, 2014
Real Tea Party wrote:
<quoted text>
You said, if I understand correctly, that since most people who earn the minimum wage are not raising families or they are young, the issue is a non-issue because most people who put food on a table are not making the bare minimum wage so the economy is not affected by the poverty of minimum wage earner.
But even if it's true, why should a single man with no children who perform on a same level as a man with family of five, earn less?
I never said that either. Are you related to Che?

One more time, every person should be paid in accordance to the value they bring to their employer. He (or she) who brings more value, should be paid more. Regardless of their family, or any other factor.
Pay them accordingly and they will put the money back to the local community. When you shop at local mom and pop stores, you are helping some kids to buy new clothes, play sports and put them through schools. You shop at Walmart, you help someone's third vacation home. There is nothing more American than supporting local stores over chain.
There's nothing more American than me CHOOSING where to put MY money, whether that be domestic or foreign. I am NOT a protectionist. I look for VALUE to ME, which is a combination of price, quality, convenience, and what's "good enough" for the intended purpose. Sometimes Walmart wins out, sometimes they don't. I'm not going to intentionally pay more than I have to for something... I can't afford to. I am retired and on a fixed income. I do OK within my means, but my means don't change with inflation, which means I must always be on the lookout for ways to do more with less.

And guess what, if you force those "mom and pop stores" to pay their employees more, the difference in price between them and Walmart is going to grow even more, because their product to employee ratio is much smaller than Walmart's. Guess what happens then.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 17
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Columbus Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
CHINATOWN DETECTIVE AGENCY LOOKING FOR Crazylady 49 min Zoe Regen 34
'Dead' woman wakes up screaming at funeral home 59 min Zoe Regen 1
Muslims beat woman for wearing bikini French ou... 2 hr Duke for Mayor 7
Poll Who Do You Support For President 3 hr Duke for Mayor 273
Warning shot 7 hr They cannot kill ... 5
News Ohio coach Urban Meyer, mascot celebrated in bu... 7 hr Dr Wu 6
who knows david marcum (Feb '09) 7 hr Big Johnson 17
More from around the web

Personal Finance

Columbus Mortgages