2nd and 4th Amendments Under Seige In New Jersey

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“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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An innocent photograph posted on Facebook of a beaming, spectacled boy proudly displaying a birthday present from his father prompted a police raid befitting an al-Qaida terrorist.

New Jersey resident Shawn Moore, a National Rifle Association firearms instructor, range safety officer and New Jersey hunter education instructor, gave his son a .22-caliber rifle for his 11th birthday, according to Fox News.

This is a boy, by the way, who despite his age is qualified and certified — and sports a New Jersey hunting license and a recent hunter safety course certificate of completion.

A busybody saw the photo went bonkers and called the New Jersey Department of Children and Families — apparently alleging child abuse solely on the basis of the photograph, Fox News reported.

Unbelievably, family services officials agreed.

“It led to an incredible, heavy-handed raid on his house,” Moore’s attorney, Evan Nappen, told Fox News.“They wanted to see his gun safe, his guns and search his house. They even threatened to take his kids.”

At least four police officers wearing tactical gear, judging by the photograph taken by Moore, didn’t get what they wanted.

“We said,‘No way, it’s not happening,’” Nappen said.“This is a guy who is completely credentialed, and his son is also credentialed.”

“If you look at the picture, his finger isn’t even on the trigger – which is proper,” he added.“If half of Hollywood could follow that rule, we’d be thankful.”

Family services spokesperson Kristen Brown told Fox News that the agency doesn’t search Facebook for photos of children holding weapons.

“In general our role is to investigate allegations of child abuse and neglect,” she said.

But Moore defied an “investigation” that turned into an armed raid on his residence and demands that he open his gun safe.

Instead of complying, he called his lawyer and handed the phone to the police.
Four officers in tactical gear

At least four officers in tactical gear greeted Moore. Photo credit Delaware Open Carry

“If you have a warrant, you’re coming in,” Nappen told the officers.“If you don’t, then you’re not. That’s what privacy is all about.”

While everyone was gathered in his home, Moore asked the New Jersey caseworker for her name. She wouldn’t give it to him.

“I asked for credentials and she wouldn’t show em,” Moore posted in Delaware Open Carry website.“I tried to take a pic of her and she turned around real fast and walked away.”

Everyone eventually left and didn’t return, although the officers threatened to come back with a search warrant.

“He has a Fourth Amendment right, and he’s not going to give up his Fourth Amendment right or his Second Amendment right,” Nappen said.“They didn’t have a warrant, so see you later.”

“To make someone go through this because he posted a picture of his son with a .22 rifle on his Facebook page is pretty outrageous,” the lawyer added.“Does that mean that anyone who posts a picture like that has to consent to a home inspection and a gun inspection? I don’t think so."
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/03/20/inconc...

Since: Jan 13

Returning with a vengeance

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#2
Mar 20, 2013
 

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Protip: Start the link with "Fatboy:"

That state reminds me of England, and Fatboy of Boris.

Absolute disregard to the rights of the people, thieving left and right.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Sounds to me like his 4th Amendment rights worked just fine.

If everyone in this country were as well-informed about their rights to politely tell people in uniforms carrying guns but no warrants to leave their property, children's services workers would have a lot smaller caseloads.

The 4th amendment is alive and doing well Paco.

woof
Anti-graft Machine

Anonymous Proxy

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#4
Mar 20, 2013
 
Someone should investigate the employees of the Department to find out if they have any other political agendas other than doing they're job as expected. It's been a popular tool of foreign and radical parties and organizations to use they're govt jobs as a medium to intentionally mistarget and mislabel their real intentions to cause collateral damage to constitutional rights. Politicians and judges have shown enormous imbalance in law making and sentencing since 1960's and have created Macro Imperialist and Micro Tunnelvision views on what reality is and has been. For example, I think this is much more important than an extra 8 ounces of soda at a restaurant.

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Duke for Mayor wrote:
Sounds to me like his 4th Amendment rights worked just fine.
If everyone in this country were as well-informed about their rights to politely tell people in uniforms carrying guns but no warrants to leave their property, children's services workers would have a lot smaller caseloads.
The 4th amendment is alive and doing well Paco.
woof
"Under siege" doesn't mean "destroyed." And the Children's Service drone most certainly was attacking it by simply investigating.

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Anti-graft Machine wrote:
Someone should investigate the employees of the Department to find out if they have any other political agendas other than doing they're job as expected. It's been a popular tool of foreign and radical parties and organizations to use they're govt jobs as a medium to intentionally mistarget and mislabel their real intentions to cause collateral damage to constitutional rights. Politicians and judges have shown enormous imbalance in law making and sentencing since 1960's and have created Macro Imperialist and Micro Tunnelvision views on what reality is and has been. For example, I think this is much more important than an extra 8 ounces of soda at a restaurant.
It's New Jersey, what do you expect?

You know, the MSM keeps telling me that Fatboy should be President, how great of a job is he really doing.

And the left calls him "Far right"

lol
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>"Under siege" doesn't mean "destroyed." And the Children's Service drone most certainly was attacking it by simply investigating.
What I'm telling you Paco is that what you characterize as a sudden "siege" upon 4th Amendment rights is an everyday occurrence...and has been for decades. Nothing has changed.

Its a common practice for csb workers to show up at a door to investigate referrals (which they are obligated by statute to do) with the police in tow. They do it as a means of convincing people to let them in to snoop around. Happens all of the time, and they're not obligated to inform people of their right to say "no".

You see this as evidence of a "new" assault on the 4th Amendment.
I'm telling you that it most certainly is not.

woof

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
What I'm telling you Paco is that what you characterize as a sudden "siege" upon 4th Amendment rights is an everyday occurrence...and has been for decades. Nothing has changed.
Its a common practice for csb workers to show up at a door to investigate referrals (which they are obligated by statute to do) with the police in tow. They do it as a means of convincing people to let them in to snoop around. Happens all of the time, and they're not obligated to inform people of their right to say "no".
You see this as evidence of a "new" assault on the 4th Amendment.
I'm telling you that it most certainly is not.
woof
Read title, what's newer is that they are violating two amendments at the same time.

The goal of this is to make gun ownership socially verboten by means of humiliation like this.

Also the curley effect is in play, they will probably leave the state, further strengthening the hand of the gun banners.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Other than a knock on the door, nothing happened to the guy. It would seem, that both the 2d and 4th amendments are alive and well.

Even more amazing, the guy didn't need to shoot anybody either.

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Che Reagan Christ wrote:
Other than a knock on the door, nothing happened to the guy. It would seem, that both the 2d and 4th amendments are alive and well.
Even more amazing, the guy didn't need to shoot anybody either.
If this was at a mosque, the left would be screaming.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
If this was at a mosque, the left would be screaming.
King of the Strawmen.
Mohamed Bary

Columbus, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
An innocent photograph posted on Facebook of a beaming, spectacled boy proudly displaying a birthday present from his father prompted a police raid befitting an al-Qaida terrorist.
New Jersey resident Shawn Moore, a National Rifle Association firearms instructor, range safety officer and New Jersey hunter education instructor, gave his son a .22-caliber rifle for his 11th birthday, according to Fox News.
This is a boy, by the way, who despite his age is qualified and certified — and sports a New Jersey hunting license and a recent hunter safety course certificate of completion.
A busybody saw the photo went bonkers and called the New Jersey Department of Children and Families — apparently alleging child abuse solely on the basis of the photograph, Fox News reported.
Unbelievably, family services officials agreed.
“It led to an incredible, heavy-handed raid on his house,” Moore’s attorney, Evan Nappen, told Fox News.“They wanted to see his gun safe, his guns and search his house. They even threatened to take his kids.”
At least four police officers wearing tactical gear, judging by the photograph taken by Moore, didn’t get what they wanted.
“We said,‘No way, it’s not happening,’” Nappen said.“This is a guy who is completely credentialed, and his son is also credentialed.”
“If you look at the picture, his finger isn’t even on the trigger – which is proper,” he added.“If half of Hollywood could follow that rule, we’d be thankful.”
Family services spokesperson Kristen Brown told Fox News that the agency doesn’t search Facebook for photos of children holding weapons.
“In general our role is to investigate allegations of child abuse and neglect,” she said.
But Moore defied an “investigation” that turned into an armed raid on his residence and demands that he open his gun safe.
Instead of complying, he called his lawyer and handed the phone to the police.
Four officers in tactical gear
At least four officers in tactical gear greeted Moore. Photo credit Delaware Open Carry
“If you have a warrant, you’re coming in,” Nappen told the officers.“If you don’t, then you’re not. That’s what privacy is all about.”
While everyone was gathered in his home, Moore asked the New Jersey caseworker for her name. She wouldn’t give it to him.
“I asked for credentials and she wouldn’t show em,” Moore posted in Delaware Open Carry website.“I tried to take a pic of her and she turned around real fast and walked away.”
Everyone eventually left and didn’t return, although the officers threatened to come back with a search warrant.
“He has a Fourth Amendment right, and he’s not going to give up his Fourth Amendment right or his Second Amendment right,” Nappen said.“They didn’t have a warrant, so see you later.”
“To make someone go through this because he posted a picture of his son with a .22 rifle on his Facebook page is pretty outrageous,” the lawyer added.“Does that mean that anyone who posts a picture like that has to consent to a home inspection and a gun inspection? I don’t think so."
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/03/20/inconc...
Did the find a laptop?
Henry Louis Gates

Columbus, OH

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#13
Mar 20, 2013
 
Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
“If you have a warrant, you’re coming in,” Nappen told the officers.“If you don’t, then you’re not. That’s what privacy is all about.”
Hmmmmm.

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Che Reagan Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
King of the Strawmen.
Stop and frisk is bad, harassing gun owners is not

liberal logic...

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

Since: Dec 12

Hilliard, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Duke for Mayor wrote:
<quoted text>
What I'm telling you Paco is that what you characterize as a sudden "siege" upon 4th Amendment rights is an everyday occurrence...and has been for decades. Nothing has changed.
Its a common practice for csb workers to show up at a door to investigate referrals (which they are obligated by statute to do) with the police in tow. They do it as a means of convincing people to let them in to snoop around. Happens all of the time, and they're not obligated to inform people of their right to say "no".
You see this as evidence of a "new" assault on the 4th Amendment.
I'm telling you that it most certainly is not.
woof
The only one using the words "new" and "sudden" is you, douche.

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

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Hilliard, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Che Reagan Christ wrote:
Other than a knock on the door, nothing happened to the guy. It would seem, that both the 2d and 4th amendments are alive and well.
Even more amazing, the guy didn't need to shoot anybody either.
"Papers, please."

“Larchmont's Leading Citizen”

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Hilliard, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Henry Louis Gates wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmmmmm.
You didn't tell him to stay out, Hank:

Gates' account of the events first appeared in The Root on July 20. According to the statement, Gates saw Crowley at the door as he was speaking to the Harvard Real Estate Office to have his front door fixed. When he opened the front door, Crowley immediately asked him to step outside. Gates did not comply and asked Crowley why he was there. When told that Crowley was a police officer investigating a reported breaking and entering, Gates replied that it was his house, and he was a Harvard faculty member. Crowley asked Gates whether he could prove it; Gates told him he could, and turned to go to the kitchen to fetch his wallet. Crowley followed him into the house. Gates then handed Crowley his Harvard University ID and a current driver's license, both including his photograph, the license also giving his address.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gate...
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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-The-Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop and frisk is bad, harassing gun owners is not
liberal logic...
That isn't the topic of the thread. The topic of the thread is whether constitutional rights are under seige in New Jersey. My comment was they worked just fine. The police honored those rights exactly as they should have.

If you are upset about gun owners being harassed, you should be more concerned about the New Jersey law that mandates that children services investigate the complaints they receive and how they vet those complaints.

Unless, of course, you just enjoy being an alarmist and you like to over exaggerate any news story you can find in an ill fated attempt to advance your agenda.
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>"Papers, please."
No, thanks.

See how easy that was?
Che Reagan Christ

Lodi, OH

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Mar 20, 2013
 

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Hugh Victor Thompson III wrote:
<quoted text>You didn't tell him to stay out, Hank:
Gates' account of the events first appeared in The Root on July 20. According to the statement, Gates saw Crowley at the door as he was speaking to the Harvard Real Estate Office to have his front door fixed. When he opened the front door, Crowley immediately asked him to step outside. Gates did not comply and asked Crowley why he was there. When told that Crowley was a police officer investigating a reported breaking and entering, Gates replied that it was his house, and he was a Harvard faculty member. Crowley asked Gates whether he could prove it; Gates told him he could, and turned to go to the kitchen to fetch his wallet. Crowley followed him into the house. Gates then handed Crowley his Harvard University ID and a current driver's license, both including his photograph, the license also giving his address.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gate...
You must have been outraged when that happened, eh?

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