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Enzyte Bob

Westerville, OH

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#1
Jul 31, 2012
 
Plastic Bag Bans: Another Feel-Good Eco-Fad
By Todd Myers

Across the country, cities are joining the latest environmental trend – banning plastic grocery bags. Concerned about the amount of plastic that reaches our oceans and the impact on wildlife, communities have decided that banning the bags is a simple and environmentally responsible approach.

But is it? What does the science say?

The evidence points to the fact that banning the bags may actually be a net negative for the environment, yielding little benefit to wildlife while significantly increasing carbon emissions and other environmental impacts.

Advocates of banning plastic grocery bags often cite impacts on marine life and mammals, but they rarely attempt to quantify that impact. Unfortunately, many attempts to quantify those impacts are simply false or misleading. For example, one city council in Washington state was told “the ecological impacts of this plastic include over a million sea-birds and 100,000 marine mammals killed by either plastic ingestions or entanglement.”

In fact, the claim about harm to marine mammals and sea-birds has nothing to do with plastic bags. NOAA corrected the claim about seabirds on its web page saying,“We are so far unable to find a scientific reference for this figure.” The only study NOAA can find does not deal with plastic bags or even marine debris, but “active fishing gear bycatch,” in other words, fishing nets that are being used at sea, not discarded plastic bags.

The Times of London addressed this very issue in 2008, even quoting a Greenpeace biologist saying,“It’s very unlikely that many animals are killed by plastic bags. The evidence shows just the opposite. We are not going to solve the problem of waste by focusing on plastic bags.”

One of the most commonly heard claims is that plastic bags, and other plastic, have created the “Pacific Garbage Patch.” Some claim it is twice the size of Texas. This is simply false. Last year, Oregon State University reported that the actual amount is less than one percent the size of Texas. Oceanography professor Angel White sent out a release last year saying,“There is no doubt that the amount of plastic in the world’s oceans is troubling, but this kind of exaggeration undermines the credibility of scientists.”

Additionally, White notes that the amount of plastic in the ocean hasn’t been increasing. For example, the Wood’s Hole Oceanographic Institute found the amount of plastic in the Atlantic Ocean hasn’t increased since the 1980s.

This doesn’t mean plastic bags cause no impact. When determining the environmental costs and benefits, however, we need to be honest about the science.

Indeed, there are risks from banning plastic grocery bags.

The most significant environmental risk from banning plastic bags is the increase in energy use. Plastic bags are the most energy-efficient form of grocery bag. The U.K. Environment Agency compared energy use for plastic, paper and re-usable bags. It found the “global warming potential” of plastic grocery bags is one-fourth that of paper bags and 1/173rd that of a reusable cotton bag. In other words, consumers would have to use a reusable cotton bag 173 times before they broke even from an energy standpoint. Thus, even if consumers switched to reusable bags, it is not clear there would be a reduced environmental impact.

...

The U.K. Environment Agency study is echoed by other research as well, and the reason is simple – grocery stores began using plastic bags in part because they are cheaper to produce, in part because they use less energy to manufacture.

Finally, it should be noted that the benefit of banning plastic bags is mitigated by the fact that half of the bags are used for other purposes, like for garbage bags or for picking up after pets. Grocery shoppers will still have to buy other bags, likely plastic, for those purposes.

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

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#2
Jul 31, 2012
 

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The UK is quoted several times! We generally reuse bags and bring durable bags. Most (all?) stores charge per bag used. You see a load less plastic bag litter out here. But it is a pain to get charged if you forget yours.

Since: Apr 12

Hilliard, OH

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#3
Jul 31, 2012
 

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tranpsosition wrote:
The UK is quoted several times! We generally reuse bags and bring durable bags. Most (all?) stores charge per bag used. You see a load less plastic bag litter out here. But it is a pain to get charged if you forget yours.
And you see a lot more e coli and other illnesses caused by bacteria growing in your reusable bags.
But hey...you've got the good old "free" NHS to take care of you, right?

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

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#4
Jul 31, 2012
 

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I think our rates of e coli are a lot lower than in the US?

We're not Denmark (or even Japan), but our food safety processes seem to work quite a bit better than they did back in the states.

Since: Apr 12

Hilliard, OH

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#5
Jul 31, 2012
 
tranpsosition wrote:
I think our rates of e coli are a lot lower than in the US?
We're not Denmark (or even Japan), but our food safety processes seem to work quite a bit better than they did back in the states.
Wake up, Sherlock. It's not about food quality at the time of purchase. It's about the meat drippings and specks of organic matter on fruits and vegetables that stay in your reusable bag for weeks and months that become germ factories:

Video: Reusable grocery bags can harbor bacteria
http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2012/07/27/vide...

The sturdy reusable grocery bag traveled with the girls' soccer team from Beaverton to Seattle for a weekend tournament, where it picked up something much less sweet than the cookies inside.

But the team members didn't know highly contagious viruses were on the bag as they passed it around during Sunday lunch, plucking out the chocolate goodies.

The next day six of the girls fell violently ill in a mysterious outbreak of norovirus, the leading cause of severe gastroenteritis in the United States.

It took Oregon scientists about five days of intensive sleuthing to pinpoint the bag as the likely culprit and lab tests to confirm its role.

All of the six girls had eaten at the Sunday lunch. They kept mentioning the cookies, which had been passed around in the bag. The cookies were bought at a store and hadn't been opened. The only common denominator was the bag.

The first sick girl never touched the bag, but it was in the chaperone's bathroom when the girl got sick. Another team member saw it and took it to the Sunday lunch.

"It was a perfect vehicle for transmission," Repp said.
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/20...

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

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#6
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Yes, what I'm saying is that due to feeding and packaging differences, many countries don't have as many bacteria to transfer about. Meat drippings in countries where e coli and salmonella are less rampant are much less of an issue. I've lived in places where eating raw chicken, eggs and beef, while unthinkable in the states, are common.

Even with our high risk reusable bag habit, we've got a lower rate of foodborne illnesses.
Walt

Brunswick, OH

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#7
Jul 31, 2012
 

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ANOTHER LONG DAY wasted at the nursing home for George (Kramer).

Since: Apr 12

Hilliard, OH

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#8
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Walt wrote:
ANOTHER LONG DAY wasted at the nursing home for George (Kramer).
How was the kiddie pool today, pedo?
Are you back at the halfway house fapping to your heart's content?
Conservative

Cincinnati, OH

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#9
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Will they ever give up the nonsense?

We went to plastic from paper because of the environment, now they want to do something else. Is it possible for them to stay focused?

They forced McDonalds and others to switch from Styrofoam to paper wrappers. The recycling regulations say that paper that has been used to cover food cannot be recycled because it's porous and cannot be sufficiently cleaned to get the food particles removed. On the reverse, Styrofoam is non-porous thus could be recycled.

Will this ever end. Is there a brain trust that they can get a donation from?

“Meh.”

Since: Aug 10

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#11
Jul 31, 2012
 

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The move to paper was a pretty great idea, polystyrene recycling rates were (and continue to be) tragically low. Mc D's was just tossing it out. Tossing biodegradable paper seems like a much easier way to go!

For more information,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystyrene

Remember, if you're going to talk about something you don't know about, google can help you check and make sure you're saying something sensible in mere seconds!

Since: Apr 12

Hilliard, OH

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#12
Jul 31, 2012
 

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tranpsosition wrote:
The move to paper was a pretty great idea, polystyrene recycling rates were (and continue to be) tragically low. Mc D's was just tossing it out. Tossing biodegradable paper seems like a much easier way to go!
For more information,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystyrene
Remember, if you're going to talk about something you don't know about, google can help you check and make sure you're saying something sensible in mere seconds!
You people are beyond hypocritical...you bemoan Styrofoam (back in the day for CFCs; today that's not an issue) but forced a law upon us requiring only the sale of compact fluorescent light bulbs containing mercury.
Anything for your pathological agenda of state control.
Enzyte Bob

Westerville, OH

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#13
Jul 31, 2012
 
Kramers Attorney wrote:
<quoted text>And you see a lot more e coli and other illnesses caused by bacteria growing in your reusable bags.
But hey...you've got the good old "free" NHS to take care of you, right?
I'm a germaphobe so at the end of the day, that's most important. Living without having to worry about sickness or disease is a recent phenomenon. Anything that promotes sanitary living is a small price to pay to remain healthy.

Paper, plastic - who cares?

Reuseable? Hard for me to believe that running it through the washer all the time is any better for the environment than throwing away a plastic bag. Incidentally, my understanding is that bags are made of what's left at the end of the refining process, which is basically refined products we would be throwing away if not for the fact that we were making bags out of it. So it's not as much of a waste as people think (if this is true).

I also think people make a good point about using these bags for other things. I use about half of them for regular trash. I would have to go back to buying bags if not for all the free bags from the grocery.
Enzyte Bob

Westerville, OH

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#14
Jul 31, 2012
 

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Walt wrote:
ANOTHER LONG DAY wasted at the nursing home for George (Kramer).
ANOTHER LONG DAY wasted STALKING CHILDREN at the NURSERY SCHOOL for PEDO WALT.
Walt

Aberdeen, OH

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#15
Jul 31, 2012
 

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EASY to see that George is more than one person on Topix. Already know he is AKA Enzyte Bob.

NOTE; the first comment mentions the UK..Is it possible that just 6 minute later, someone from the UK is gonna awnser Bobs story?? NOT likely...

It is OBVIOUS that TRANPSOSITION is another AKA usedby George (Kramer)

Which means George is on Topix AGAIN talking back and forth to HIMSELF...

REALLY GEORGE??? IS that much fun??? You need to get out of that nursing home some, cripple...
Walt

Brunswick, OH

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#16
Jul 31, 2012
 
EASY to see that George is more than one person on Topix. Already know he is AKA Enzyte Bob.

NOTE; the first comment mentions the UK..Is it possible that just 6 minutes later, someone from the UK is gonna awnser Bobs (George's) story?? NOT likely...

It is OBVIOUS that TRANPSOSITION is another AKA used by George (Kramer)

Which means George is on Topix AGAIN talking back and forth to HIMSELF...

REALLY GEORGE??? IS that much fun??? You need to get out of that nursing home some, cripple...
BYOB

Columbus, OH

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#17
Aug 1, 2012
 
Bring your own bag,what the hell is so hard about that.I get tired of seeing those damn plastic grocery bags stuck in trees and going into landfills.They should be banned,most people are just to freaking lazy to carry their own bag to the store.You can use PUL fabric to make your own small trach can liners(reusable)-google it,learn something new for Christ's sake.Don't go through life a dumbass stare.

Since: Apr 12

Hilliard, OH

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#18
Aug 1, 2012
 

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BYOB wrote:
Bring your own bag,what the hell is so hard about that.I get tired of seeing those damn plastic grocery bags stuck in trees and going into landfills.They should be banned,most people are just to freaking lazy to carry their own bag to the store.You can use PUL fabric to make your own small trach can liners(reusable)-google it,learn something new for Christ's sake.Don't go through life a dumbass stare.
If you want to get sick, that's your business. I'm tired of you leftist busy bodies trying to control our lives.
BYOB

Columbus, OH

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#19
Aug 1, 2012
 
Kramers Attorney wrote:
<quoted text>If you want to get sick, that's your business. I'm tired of you leftist busy bodies trying to control our lives.
Please explain how that would make one sick.
BYOB

Columbus, OH

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#20
Aug 1, 2012
 
Bring your own bag,I use a large cloth tote to do my shopping.Women have been carrying cloth purses for hundreds of years and I have yet to hear of a woman dying from a disease linked to a cloth purse.No excuses.

Since: Apr 12

Hilliard, OH

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#22
Aug 1, 2012
 
BYOB wrote:
Bring your own bag,I use a large cloth tote to do my shopping.Women have been carrying cloth purses for hundreds of years and I have yet to hear of a woman dying from a disease linked to a cloth purse.No excuses.
Since when do women carry food in a purse?
Drop dead and quit being a fascist idiot. We're sick of you leftist losers.

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