The Debate 2012

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1812 Nov 20, 2012
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
I did, and I realize that. But I'm certainly not going to support the public paying for education that is more than the minimum necessary for an individual to support himself at sustenance level. If you want a career above and beyond that (if you want a more opulent lifestyle, or you want to raise a family), YOU pay for the education required, or get someone WILLING to help you.(Do you ever really examine your own mindset? Why on Earth should someone else pay for your perks?)
<quoted text>
I don't see the relevance to what was being talked about.
Well, to put it simply, providing only sufficient education for a subsistence lifestyle is not good for the economy. It is among the reasons that the US is beginning to fall behind other nations.

You see education only as a means to provide perks to workers. It is much more than that. It is the means by which work is done, reasearch accomplished, wise governance choices made.

Our national high school graduation rate prepares a workforce sufficient for the job needs of the 1970s--but not that of this century. As a result, the kids who don't even make it to graduation (and this is as much a result of school system choices made years previous to the individual's choice to stop showing up as it is to those individual choices) wind up jobless and on the streets, ultimately headed for prison. Again, the US leads the world in incarceration rates.

Now, we could debate who should pay for education beyond high school, but the reality is that far too many who graduate high school and attempt college (regardless of who is paying for it) must first take remedial coursework in mathematics and reading/writing. A college is a pretty expensive place to fill in the gaps of what is not learned prior to high school graduation. And these days most post-high-school programs (technology, career-tech, apprenticeship, etc) need about the same level of math and reading skill as college programs. But we are not meeting it.
notlocal

AOL

#1813 Nov 20, 2012
WISE AMERICAN wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, you are correct but unfortunately here in Columbus, it was a Republican administration that cut funding for our career centers where those skills were being taught. I can't stand when Republicans cut funding and use the excuse that's it's too expensive to fund. Yet, these legislators can find millions of dollars to fund our correctional institutions, which by the way, are housed with a majority black population. It's nefarious when you have a governor that agrees to sell a state prison to a "private prison corporation" that has a bottom line profit to maintain.
I am talking about on the job training. Hire in as a laborer and move up to CEO of the company. Trade schools are O.K., I guess, but those that can, do and those that can't, teach.

One year of work experience is always worth 3 years of school.(In my opinion) I have an MBA, but if I had never worked, that's all I would have. A degree hanging on the wall and no work skills or experience. Big whoop.

You ever think about the amount of knowledge there is in any cemetary?
notlocal

AOL

#1814 Nov 20, 2012
WISE AMERICAN wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, you are correct but unfortunately here in Columbus, it was a Republican administration that cut funding for our career centers where those skills were being taught. I can't stand when Republicans cut funding and use the excuse that's it's too expensive to fund. Yet, these legislators can find millions of dollars to fund our correctional institutions, which by the way, are housed with a majority black population. It's nefarious when you have a governor that agrees to sell a state prison to a "private prison corporation" that has a bottom line profit to maintain.
Look spending cuts are going to come. We simply have too much debt to cover it with revenue only. Democratic leaders know that as well as republiocans, but you always blame the republicans.

I am all for line by line cutting. The amounts may seem small, but every $325,000. you cut for a robotic squirrel adds up.

I agree about the prison population. But what is the answer? 99% come out of prison with a whole new set of criminal skills and are back in there within twenty-four months. Leaving behind at least one 'baby mama' an d child for the government to support. Crime and drugs have taken over the inner cities, and suburbs too. Maybe our justice system is too soft.
notlocal

AOL

#1815 Nov 20, 2012
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
Get out of the white vs black, Republican vs Democrat mentality.
"The state auditor's office this week released a performance audit requested last year by the center's administration."
Do you see that? Requested by the center's administration.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local...
By the way, I know some government workers who got pink slipped the day after the election. I thought you said Obama was all about creating jobs?
I am so sick of the government inspired racism. But as long as they break down all the voting groups, it will continue.

Uh, no, your mixed up. That was Romney that would have created 7 million jobs in 2013, and anothr 5 million in 2014, through energy independence. Obama has no jobs plan. None, zilch, zero.
notlocal

AOL

#1816 Nov 20, 2012
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
I did, and I realize that. But I'm certainly not going to support the public paying for education that is more than the minimum necessary for an individual to support himself at sustenance level. If you want a career above and beyond that (if you want a more opulent lifestyle, or you want to raise a family), YOU pay for the education required, or get someone WILLING to help you.(Do you ever really examine your own mindset? Why on Earth should someone else pay for your perks?)
<quoted text>
I don't see the relevance to what was being talked about.
Tony, my mother, about higher education, always said "it's there for anyone who wants it bad enough", and it is.

And face it, what comes too easily to us, we do not appreciate as much as what we have to work and wait for.

Both my niece and nephew were awarded scholarships because of their HS grades. She worked as a waitress and he worked for UPS to support themselves while they were in college. I admire them so much.

No, I don't believe in automatic government funded education past HS. People have to grow up.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#1817 Nov 20, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, to put it simply, providing only sufficient education for a subsistence lifestyle is not good for the economy.
I agree. So what? How does that equate to forcing one person to paying for another person's perks? Let the free market do it, not the taxpayer.
You see education only as a means to provide perks to workers.
Yes. Learn to work, work to live. Learn more for perks. Besides, aren't perks contrary to your Marxist core? Everybody should take only what they need, right?
Now, we could debate who should pay for education beyond high school
Yes, we could.
but the reality is that far too many who graduate high school and attempt college (regardless of who is paying for it) must first take remedial coursework in mathematics and reading/writing.
And you think the answer is to teach engineering and medicine in high school????
A college is a pretty expensive place to fill in the gaps of what is not learned prior to high school graduation.
The fact that some kids get it and some don't, in the same classroom, points to something other than the teachers as the problem (Yeah, I know... Hard to believe I'm defending teachers.). Some kids just aren't cut out for college. People are different, not the identical little robots you seem to think they are.
And these days most post-high-school programs (technology, career-tech, apprenticeship, etc) need about the same level of math and reading skill as college programs. But we are not meeting it.
How many careers actually require math above, say, first year Algebra or basic Trig? Not many. So wouldn't it be a waste of resources teaching everyone (on the taxpayer's dime) what only few are going to use?

What's the endgame? Forcing people into certain occupations? I think there was a Star Trek episode about that... didn't turn out well. People got uppity... wanted to do things other than what they were bred for... Exercise their LIBERTY... Go figure.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#1818 Nov 20, 2012
notlocal wrote:
<quoted text>
Tony, my mother, about higher education, always said "it's there for anyone who wants it bad enough", and it is.
Exactly. What's needed isn't more education. It's for parents to teach their children a damned work ethic! Strive to thrive.
Mainstream Media

Dublin, OH

#1819 Nov 20, 2012
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. What's needed isn't more education. It's for parents to teach their children a damned work ethic! Strive to thrive.
There was a time when, immigrant or not, you literally had to work for food and food may mean an onion sandwich. We've lost that.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1820 Nov 20, 2012
notlocal wrote:
<quoted text>
I am talking about on the job training. Hire in as a laborer and move up to CEO of the company. Trade schools are O.K., I guess, but those that can, do and those that can't, teach.
One year of work experience is always worth 3 years of school.(In my opinion) I have an MBA, but if I had never worked, that's all I would have. A degree hanging on the wall and no work skills or experience. Big whoop.
You ever think about the amount of knowledge there is in any cemetary?
That's great if you can do it. Also why the new look into WalMart's policie is so important. By practice, if not policy, those who hire in at the lower rungs are severely limited in exactly how high up the ladder they can ever climb.

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1821 Nov 20, 2012
notlocal wrote:
<quoted text>
Look spending cuts are going to come. We simply have too much debt to cover it with revenue only. Democratic leaders know that as well as republiocans, but you always blame the republicans.
I am all for line by line cutting. The amounts may seem small, but every $325,000. you cut for a robotic squirrel adds up.
I agree about the prison population. But what is the answer? 99% come out of prison with a whole new set of criminal skills and are back in there within twenty-four months. Leaving behind at least one 'baby mama' an d child for the government to support. Crime and drugs have taken over the inner cities, and suburbs too. Maybe our justice system is too soft.
More likely we have too many people unlikely to gain any sort of employment.

Melissa Harris-Perry last weekend had a special focus on programs that work to prevent recidivism. Seems we have a pretty good grasp on what works. Has a lot to do with education.

In Ohio we used to have college programs operating within the prison system. Eugene Watts was instrumental in closing them down. Lotta folks got honked off that prisoners were getting their tuition paid for them.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#1822 Nov 20, 2012
Mainstream Media wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a time when, immigrant or not, you literally had to work for food and food may mean an onion sandwich. We've lost that.
Hey, I like onion and butter sandwiches...:)

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#1823 Nov 20, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
That's great if you can do it. Also why the new look into WalMart's policie is so important. By practice, if not policy, those who hire in at the lower rungs are severely limited in exactly how high up the ladder they can ever climb.
You can tell the public employment gene is in your blood. Most people in the real world don't work at the same place their entire career. The idea is to advance as much as you can in one place, then move on to something bigger and better (if that's what you want).

(Of course, public employment is no guarantee of advancement either... I know a guy worked 37 years at ODOT at the same (next to lowest) payrange.
Pale Rider

Fort Thomas, KY

#1824 Nov 21, 2012
This may be a little early to ask?

Who will be the top contenders t run fr Prsient in 2016?

Hillary Clinton

Bobby Jindal

Jeb Bush

Rick Santorum

Will Carl Rove play a big role again for the Republicn Party? I don't think so. Nor will Rush Limbaugh.

If I were picking a Republican, I think Rick Santorum might be the best choice.

Who do the Democrats have thar will make a run?
Rick Santorum
Wait what

Dublin, OH

#1825 Nov 21, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
That's great if you can do it. Also why the new look into WalMart's policie is so important. By practice, if not policy, those who hire in at the lower rungs are severely limited in exactly how high up the ladder they can ever climb.
I rarely go to Walmart, but the last time I was in there I was appalled at the unhelpful, snarly attitude thrown at me. Or the guy using slang to me at the customer service counter - nothing professional about that, nothing. Could you at least acknowledge that maybe people keep themselves 'severely limited'?

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1826 Nov 21, 2012
Wait what wrote:
<quoted text>
I rarely go to Walmart, but the last time I was in there I was appalled at the unhelpful, snarly attitude thrown at me. Or the guy using slang to me at the customer service counter - nothing professional about that, nothing. Could you at least acknowledge that maybe people keep themselves 'severely limited'?
Can you acknowledge that in the relationship between Wal-Mart and their employees all the power is on one side?

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#1827 Nov 21, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you acknowledge that in the relationship between Wal-Mart and their employees all the power is on one side?
It's not one-sided at all. Any of those employees can simply walk out if they don't like the conditions. Isn't liberty grand?

“Don't trust the internet!”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1828 Nov 22, 2012
TonyD2 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not one-sided at all. Any of those employees can simply walk out if they don't like the conditions. Isn't liberty grand?
And does that ability to walk out the door give them any bargaining power with regard to salary, benefits, hours or working conditions?

Thoughout history there have been instances of the exploitation of groups of laborers because the only option available to them was to walk out, and starve.

“Ludibrium est onus genio”

Since: Dec 11

Planet Earth

#1829 Nov 22, 2012
FKA Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
And does that ability to walk out the door give them any bargaining power with regard to salary, benefits, hours or working conditions?
If you're a good employee, absolutely. If you're not, you deserve whatever you'll settle for.
Thoughout history there have been instances of the exploitation of groups of laborers because the only option available to them was to walk out, and starve.
The lament of the inadequate and mediocre...
Against the Rich

AOL

#1830 Nov 23, 2012
Has anyone noticed that there's no debate on here? And yet this was a great place to debate politics, change in Government. What happened? What happened to all of those that was so sure Romney was going to win? You know the ones that knew he was going to be President?
Against the Rich

AOL

#1831 Nov 23, 2012
How come Fox News, Carl Rove, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity that whined for for four years that Obama had to go. How come they done such a lousy job of delivering a victory?

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