Xenos Christian Fellowship is a CULT!
Casual Observer

Pickerington, OH

#941 Aug 17, 2014
From the culthelp.info website:

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php...

An article by Dennis McCallum,'Dependent Relationship Clusters'. This paper was written in the midst of internal struggles in the fall of 1993.

Interesting that this would be on the 'Cult Awareness & Information Library' website. In this article Dennis readily admits that young Xenos members have been taken from their families & are now looking for replacement parental figures. Dennis also states that Xenos leaders are lacking in that area.

This article, written by the lead pastor of the Xenos church, describes in detail the extent of the manipulation of these young folks by the leaders of Xenos.'Love-bombing','rejectio n','abandonment','relational addiction','permanent dependent relationship','life-destroying dimensions' & 'Toxic Faith' are just a few of the terms used in this paper.

How could any sensible person read this article & not wonder what else these impressionable young people are being subjected to? They are being run through a gristmill of church discipline & mind manipulation.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#942 Aug 17, 2014
All religions are cults. Just a matter of degrees.

woof
Xeniod

Pickerington, OH

#943 Aug 17, 2014
I've attended Xenos for 12 years. Much of what I have read here, I have not experienced however, I am not discounting the experiences, bad and good of others that have shared on this forum. My issue, through most of the years have been the constant inclusiveness/exclusiveness I've experienced, despite the rantings of " community" and " family" by leaders. Bottom line, if they feel you contribute and have value, you're included. If you have a demanding job or continue education, grow professionally, you are not supported because that is less time in service to the home group and church. The one enduring positive of Xenos is the solid Bible teaching at Sunday central teachings which God had used to grow me in my walk with Him.
Uber genius

Commercial Point, OH

#944 Aug 18, 2014
Casual Observer wrote:
Point of fact. I do know about Xenos. I am there every week talking with its members.
Point of fact. I am a Christian. Repeatedly I have stated that I am a Catholic. We are the original Christians...
Uber genius [what a humble name] in his post right above this one readily admits that he has personally witnessed "leaders' manipulation". Yet he does not respond to post concerning shunning...
Uber genius still has loyalty toward Xenos as evidenced by his unwillingness to reveal the very worst ...
I've got news for you partner. You are not the Uber genius you think you are. You do have a superiority complex though. Perhaps you should get some counseling for that.
"Über genius" is a thinly-vailed ( nom de plume, or cognomen (look those words up while your looking up "epistemology") reference to a looney tunes charater in the 1960s known as Wile E Coyote. He had the title "Super Genius" on his business card and was alway blowing himself up because he was an idiot. So my reference is clearly tongue in cheek. Maybe you have never heard the reference or are too young to have watched the cartoon.

You maybe upset with Xenos because they represented Catholisicm as a cult group in the 70s and 80s. That might be valuable to share and discuss but your post seem to focus on hearsay and rumors.

Casual if you have read my posts you would see I have not only talked about shunning but what is at the root of that behavior at Xenos. If you have been a victim of false claims of being a catholic cult member, by all means share that info. But stop wasting everyone's time with you stuff you heard someone say somewhere.

Finally, your point on me getting counseling is well-taken and boarders on the prophetic! Are you a Charasmatic Catholic per chance?
ehh

Columbus, OH

#945 Aug 19, 2014
Casual Observer wrote:
Point of fact. I do know about Xenos. I am there every week talking with its members.
Point of fact. I am a Christian. Repeatedly I have stated that I am a Catholic. We are the original Christians.
If you're so against this "intolerant cult", why are you there every week? Wouldn't you want to stray away from "intolerance"? I feel like the general trend when people face intolerance is to avoid it. Just some food for thought.
Casual Observer

Pickerington, OH

#946 Aug 19, 2014
I am there every week for other reasons. It is because I am in the area & speaking with the Xenos members that I first became concerned about some issues. Unlike most, I do not stick my head in the sand. Yes I agree, when most people see something they disagree with they avoid it at all costs. Of course this allows whatever is transpiring to continue indefinitely.

And let's get this straight, I will live my own life any way I see fit. No one tells me where to go & where to stay away from. I do as I please all of the time.
Uber genius

Columbus, OH

#947 Aug 19, 2014
Casual Observer wrote:
?..
And let's get this straight, I will live my own life any way I see fit. No one tells me where to go & where to stay away from. I do as I please all of the time.
Luke 9:23-24

And he said to all,“If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it.

Jesus doesn't want us to boldly go "living our life any way we see fit"!

This is the absurdity of Christianity as compared to other religions. As Paul says in Corinthians,
"But we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles."

Our King and God humbled himself even to the point of death. We should follow in his footsteps. I have be arrogant in some of my posts. I'm always pedantic and verbose. Occasionally I have insight. But my real journey is to die to self and ask "How could I serve?" I am always suspect of living my life my way. Nothing Godly has ever come of it. Recently I started considering others as more important than myself. No big revelation there unless someone has had great success being arrogant and self-reliant. Since reading a book by Andrew Murray called Humility, I am starting to understand the journey I should have been on for the last 39 years as a Christian.

https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebra...

Casual, I now see your concern and it seems more genuine then how I first read it. I read it as zeal for the Christ's church of which you see Xenos as a dangerous counterfeit (perhaps because of their attacks against Catholics or proslytizing of same) and that zeal may also be for the truth of the Gospel. Perhaps like me the next leg of the journey could be staring into the the grave and daily entering into the death of self next to your king. Forgive my earlier snide remarks. I am every bit the idiot as my namesake, Wile E.
Duke for Mayor

Akron, OH

#948 Aug 19, 2014
Uber genius wrote:
<quoted text>
Luke 9:23-24
And he said to all,“If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it.
Jesus doesn't want us to boldly go "living our life any way we see fit"!
This is the absurdity of Christianity as compared to other religions. As Paul says in Corinthians,
"But we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles."
Our King and God humbled himself even to the point of death. We should follow in his footsteps. I have be arrogant in some of my posts. I'm always pedantic and verbose. Occasionally I have insight. But my real journey is to die to self and ask "How could I serve?" I am always suspect of living my life my way. Nothing Godly has ever come of it. Recently I started considering others as more important than myself. No big revelation there unless someone has had great success being arrogant and self-reliant. Since reading a book by Andrew Murray called Humility, I am starting to understand the journey I should have been on for the last 39 years as a Christian.
https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebra...
Casual, I now see your concern and it seems more genuine then how I first read it. I read it as zeal for the Christ's church of which you see Xenos as a dangerous counterfeit (perhaps because of their attacks against Catholics or proslytizing of same) and that zeal may also be for the truth of the Gospel. Perhaps like me the next leg of the journey could be staring into the the grave and daily entering into the death of self next to your king. Forgive my earlier snide remarks. I am every bit the idiot as my namesake, Wile E.
Never trust a Bible Pimp.

Book of Duke
Chapter 1, Verse 1*

* Credit to Bubbles



woof
Anon

Columbus, OH

#949 Aug 19, 2014
Casual Observer wrote:
And let's get this straight, I will live my own life any way I see fit. No one tells me where to go & where to stay away from. I do as I please all of the time.
Yes, we see that - as in one of your responses to the Ferguson shooting. Onward, Christian Soldier!
Casual Observer wrote:
There is another observation from Ferguson that is just obvious. Blacks take advantage of any opportunity to loot. Any excuse will do for them. Where there is a large group of blacks congregated you can expect looting & thievery. Common knowledge that they steal from each other constantly.
Why is it that we do not see looting such as this from any other racial group? Whites? No. Hispanic? No. Asians? No. Native Americans? No.
No other group. Only the blacks. Must be in their nature as a people. There can be no other explanation.
jap

Toledo, OH

#950 Aug 22, 2014
UberGenius wrote:
Mike N,
Finally got around to reading your posts. Were you a member of Fishouse or Xenos? Some of your comments, especially about the Xenos group in Akron seems like you are actually unfamiliar with Xenos. Or rather your familiarity is from outside looking in. Originally I had thought you were wounded by Dennis as many have been but now I am starting to think you may be just someone who hates seeker-friendly churches wherever they pop up.
Xenos is hated by Fundamentalist groups around Columbus for allowing smoking (they used to have a smoking section at the back of the central teaching) and drinking at their church events (Catholics should appreciate that... Bingo anyone?). Xenos takes Paul's comments in 1Cor. "I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some," very seriously. While fundamentalists traditionally understand that people must clean themselves up before they go to God, churches that reach out to the broken and needy recognize that God cleans people up through relationship with him not by following rules of men ( don't drink, don't smoke, don't chew, or run with those who do).
OK let me clear one thing up while I agree there are some odd things about xenos I don't believe they are directly.

However I have been part of this church since 98 and they are not a cult.

On the other hand they do have a process and here it is

1 love bombing. Now you might be wondering what that is love bombing simply means they greet you with open arms and shower you with attention by spending time with you.this is to try to discover your weakness.
After this acomplished then they move on to step 2

2 shamefulness. After they have love bombed you they break you down to make you feel guilty for example let say a couple is living together. They will tell you you are not a believer because you are doing this.once they have you have you in a depression state step 3

3 manipulation after they have broken u down they will build you back up and say stuff you know before I came to Christ I was just like you but once I let God in my life that all changed.they will convenience you to follow their ways
Old-timer

Columbus, OH

#951 Aug 23, 2014
So “Jap”, you are currently a member of Xenos ... since 1998 ... and yet you state that "love bombing" and "manipulation" are the primary techniques employed by the church. Why are you still involved with Xenos?

Also, do you live in Columbus? Xenos doesn’t have a church in Michigan.
jap wrote:
<quoted text>
...I have been part of this church since 98 and they are not a cult.
On the other hand they do have a process and here it is
1 love bombing...
2 shamefulness...
3 manipulation...
PaijheSwann

Columbus, OH

#952 Aug 30, 2014
Its weird that you would go to such extremes to call Xenos a cult if you've study your bible you would know what being in a cult consists of. Yes granted they do have a high commitment to being at meetings and wanting to have people a part of f ellowship but thats so that they know that you are willing to live for God and not just be a wanna be christian every now and then, I've been around for about a year and me being the skeptic that I am haven't found any hypocrisy nor cult like activities they teach directly from the bible and maybe your daughter misheard but the fact of the matter is I've never heard anyone make such a claim at all. I'll be praying for you all and 9 times out of 10 this will be deleted because that's just how people are now and days.
Xeniod

Pickerington, OH

#953 Sep 7, 2014
Question...I've recently begun following this forum. Can anyone tell me what happened in the 1990's when nearly half the congregation left Xenos? As i mentioned in my one and only prior post, I've attended 12 years and it' s been the last two years that I' ve begun to question some practices within the church. For one, alcohol seems to be present at most functions outside of the Sunday services in light of the individuals struggling with addiction, don't think this is a good idea. Another is the ethical character of a few folks now in leadership....don't want to sound judgmental but just have to question.
Old-timer

Columbus, OH

#954 Sep 7, 2014
More than half of the people who left in the 90's went to Vineyard. Xenos and Vineyard are on good terms and occasionally collaborate on projects together. Some people came back to Xenos after changes were made. I personally know 2 people who came back.

As for beer, it generally isn't a problem. If there is a problem drinker who has a difficult time being around alcohol, a home group will not bring beer to events, etc. for the sake of that person.

And as for your "ethical character" concerns about a few leaders, you should talk about it with a leader who you do trust. You are not going to get much help on this forum. It's mostly mockers and angry people (there are some exceptions, of course).
Xeniod wrote:
Question...I've recently begun following this forum. Can anyone tell me what happened in the 1990's when nearly half the congregation left Xenos? As i mentioned in my one and only prior post, I've attended 12 years and it' s been the last two years that I' ve begun to question some practices within the church. For one, alcohol seems to be present at most functions outside of the Sunday services in light of the individuals struggling with addiction, don't think this is a good idea. Another is the ethical character of a few folks now in leadership....don't want to sound judgmental but just have to question.
Uber genius

Columbus, OH

#955 Sep 8, 2014
Xeniod wrote:
Question...I've recently begun following this forum. Can anyone tell me what happened in the 1990's when nearly half the congregation left ?....
I left Xenos in Dec. 1987 and went to he newly formed Vineyard (185 members then). Dennis and elders had held a analytical interest in Vineyard since summer of 1986 when they attended a John Wimber conference. I too was at that conference and counted over a dozen, elders and sphere leaders from Xenos. However the point was (for most) to see who could generate the most scathing criticism of Wimber. That's said, some (like Lou Basso) were astounded by what they saw. Asking "what could we do to extend the gospel and make hurting people whole if Jesus REALLY healed today" was the question that haunted some of the elders. There were seminars every 4-6 months in the early 1990s that brought dozens of leaders over to Vineyard (Cooper road). These leaders saw prophecies that were incredibly specific, words of knowledge that was incredible specific, healings confirmed by doctors, and saw demons cast out of people in these conferences. Meanwhile they heard theologically sound teaching that was conservative, not whacky as Dennis had often warned. Critical mass occurred in 1994. Here is a link to Xenos' take on the exodus to Vineyard. http://www.xenos.org/aboutxenos/history.htm
One correction. The conferences that were happening locally that stirred Xenos Elder's interest had NOTHING to do with the so-called Toronto Blessing. Rich Nathan (Cols Vineyard Pastor) was the regional overseer for Vineyard USA. He visited The Toronto Airport Vineyard and claimed to be "deeply disturbed" by what he saw there! It was Charasmatic wildness at its worst. Dennis loves to attack straw men and here does so effectively due to those who are naive to the facts.
In the same way, the women ( and men) are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.(1 Timothy 3:11 NIV)
Opps! Not malicious talkers! This was Dennis' most pronounced attribute. Not only that but he has created a methodology to reproduce that quality in the Leader's meetings.
Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.(1 Timothy 3:2, 3, 6 NIV)
Self-controlled, not violent, not quarrelsome, temperate, not recent converts, not conceited! These commands by Paul to Timothy are cast aside as suggestions by Xenos as Dennis and many of the Elders and Leaders could not become deacons if Paul's rubric was consistently applied. Notice the defense tactic of asking people to handle complaints on a case by case basis. A pattern of abuse is best obfuscated by dividing claims into individual claims. This was also the defense tactic at Nuremberg! 1000s of claims of abusive leaderships over last 35+ years. E best explanation of this abuse is not a few bad eggs in college ministry houses! Every church has the same susceptibility to immature leaders. Why doesn't Vineyard have similar complaints? They are larger and have at least as many home groups as Xenos. Look at the other evangelical churches around the US with home groups. Few complaints.

God has used Xenos greatly. But your development as a Christian is greatly hampered by the spiritual immaturity of the leaders there. So where to go from here, seek where God wants you to serve others with the gifts he has given you. Learn to listen and discern his voice. Move on to a place where you can develop maturity and be treated with genuine love. No manipulation! No gossip! No drunkeness or filthy talk. No insecurity about who is "The Best Church" in the central Ohio area. No more putting yourself under fawning, sycophantic leaders chanting "What Would Dennis Do!"
Anonymous

Hilliard, OH

#956 Sep 9, 2014
Wow, I would love to hear about some of those prophecies, healings, and casting out of demons that Uber "genius" just mentioned.
I go to Xenos

Columbus, OH

#957 Sep 9, 2014
No, it is not. What a stupid thing to claim. And what I your definition of cult? Considering how open they are from their teachings, to home group to even letting you see the financial statements and accounts, how can that be considered a cult? Have you even been there and more than just once or just getting your information from what you think?
Xeniod

Columbus, OH

#958 Sep 9, 2014
Thank you, Uber Genius for your insights, and for the link to read what Xenos has to say about the mass exodus in the early 1990's. Old-Timer, I have made inquiries about the behavior of a few who are now in leadership and I get the same old response which is "God's grace" for our sins. Yes, I believe in God's grave covering a multitude of sins but in these instances, placing some of these folks in leadership is the same as giving a brand new shiny car to a 12-year old. Alchohol is a staple at ANY home church related event and a few do drink too much, every time. I think perhaps Xenos has run its course for me and my family and it is time to go elsewhere, in time. We don't take this leaving lightly.
Old-Timer

Columbus, OH

#959 Sep 9, 2014
I believe you are operating mostly from outdated information. I've been involved in the 4th Street location since it started in 2008 (Gary) and I haven't seen one thing in your list about how terrible Xenos is for spiritual growth. Rich Nathan (senior pastor at Vineyard since 1987) was involved with / and spoke at the Xenos Summer Institute a few months ago. If Xenos is as bad as you say, I can’t believe he would be partnering with us, don’t you think?
Uber genius wrote:
<quoted text>
I left Xenos in Dec. 1987 ... Move on to a place where you can develop maturity and be treated with genuine love. No manipulation! No gossip! No drunkeness or filthy talk. No insecurity about who is "The Best Church" in the central Ohio area. No more putting yourself under fawning, sycophantic leaders chanting "What Would Dennis Do!"
alumni

Columbus, OH

#960 Sep 9, 2014
It's interesting to see some Xenoid reactions to what is happening with Mars Hill & Mark Driscoll.
( http://www.salon.com/2014/09/08/evangelical_m... )

Mark Driscoll's remarks that are being criticized remind me of Den's inappropriate style. For example, Den saying "playing the skin flute" in front of a big state of the church meeting.(in reference to, if your not "all in" living the xenos system, your life is the equivalent of playing the skin flute)

So one Xenoid reaction to the Mars Hill/Marc Driscoll controversy was:
..." this does go to show that negative criticisms in the media should be taken very seriously and not just seen by the individuals being criticized as "Satan persecuting them because they are doing 'something' right." When hundreds - hell, even tens - criticize the same manipulative, controlling, unbiblical behaviors, that should be taken seriously. I've been praying for them and for complete restoration and healing, even if that means Driscoll stepping down semi-permanently."

WHAT ABOUT DEN???

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