#921 Aug 13, 2014
In reply to Confused. Putting down religion after religion in editorial after editorial, in their Bible teachings, their study tools, in their exegetical outlines, in their books & essays, in their classes, in their ministries, Xenos has created a climate of hatred for all other established religions. At what point does this rise to the level of a hate-crime I ask you? In these troubling times can we afford to ignore the direction of our youth? How many parents grieve every day for their lost children. Children lost to the cult of Xenos & their teachings. Perhaps if you read these teachings for yourself you will not be confused. Go to their site. See what they say about how believe in this country.
Confused, you know these Xenos people are filling our younger generation's heads with nonsense in order to indoctrinate them into their church. I imagine that it is hard to "work through things" when your child is gone, torn from the loving arms of a good family never to return.
Have you even read the names I have called on here? Talk about hate-crimes.
Confused wrote: "If you want to argue about what's most American, it was first settled by PROTESTANTS, leaving the CATHOLIC church. So that's an interesting point, but an aside."
So Catholics are not even American now? Boy we Catholics can't catch a break. Point of fact, your statement is historically inaccurate. The first to arrive in 1620 were the Pilgrims. Their hope was to escape the religious persecution they were facing in their country. The one thing they did not want to do was to establish a church like the Church of England. The colonists wanted a chance to worship freely and have an opportunity to choose which religion they wanted to take part in.
What is historically accurate is, America was first settled by PROTESTANTS, leaving the persecution of another PROTESTANT church.
Get your facts straight before you bash my church.
#922 Aug 13, 2014
Many religious groups (such as the Quakers and Puritans) formed the first 13 colonies on the basis of their religious beliefs. Although the plan was to escape persecution, there was actually some amount of persecution happening in the colonies. One example of this persecution would be with the Puritans. The Puritans wanted everyone to worship in the Puritan way. In order to ensure that Puritanism dominated the colonies, nonconformists were fined, banished, whipped, and even imprisoned for not conforming to the way of the Puritans. Eventually this persecution was ended and other religions began to appear.
Where are the Catholics in this???
#923 Aug 13, 2014
The Anglicans were already established in most of the colonies and were even part of the group of people that were "persecuted" by the Puritans. However, after the dispersement of the Puritans, the number of other religions in the colonies began to increase. Baptists appeared in a majority of the colonies, Roman Catholics and Protestants organized in Maryland and even some German religions surfaced in a few of the colonies. Later came the Lutherans, who formed in the German communities in Pennsylvania, and the Presbyterians, who even had an appearance in the Massachusetts Proposals of 1705.
Lots of persecution by protestants in colonial times.
#924 Aug 13, 2014
The situation of the Catholic Church in the Thirteen Colonies was characterized by an extensive religious persecution originating from Protestant sects, which would barely allow religious toleration to Catholics living on American territory until the country obtained its independence from the United Kingdom in 1783.
Confused is very confused. He knows not what he says.
#925 Aug 13, 2014
If someone says they believe that a magic invisible unicorn circles the earth and is the creator of rainbows and I disagree with them and say that they are wrong is that a hate crime?
If someone says that they think universal health care is dumb and I disagree with them and say that it's awesome and provide details towards why I believe that it is awesome is that a hate crime?
If someone comes up with a new scientific theory that conflicts with another and claims that it is wrong and provides details is that a hate crime?
When has the idea of disagreeing with someone and believing them to be wrong blown into full on hatred?
I find on a daily level I disagree with a host of people on a host of topics yet I don't hate them.
#926 Aug 13, 2014
Well, I don't know about all cases, but I live in a Ministry house and one of my roommates is what some might consider "torn from the loving arms of a good family never to return."
He started attending our home church for awhile and liked it. After a time he decided he wanted to move in with us. When he talked about this idea they threatened to disown him. That they wouldn't speak to him if he ever made that decision. That doesn't exactly sound like torn but much rather "thrown out"
Thankfully he's been able to rekindle and fix those relationships with his family but it was definitely sad to see at first.
I think what frustrates me the most is the lack of trust people place in their kids and their ability to make decisions. It seems like nobodies believes in their ability to make decisions using their own mind and instantly blame everyone around them. People under 21 can pick what sports or hobbies they are into, can decide what movies they want to watch, can decide how to dress, can read whatever books they want, can choose the college they want to go to, can decide the career they are going to spend the rest of their life in, all of these things they can decide and people provide input into but it ultimately comes down to their decision their choice and things rest on their shoulders. Now when it comes to religion that all get's thrown out.
If it's all really as bad as people say it is maybe I'll hit a point someday where I decide to leave. The same as other people decided on this forum, and if that day ever comes I don't blame on blaming other people and slandering their name but blaming myself for the choices I made and moving on with my life .
#927 Aug 13, 2014
If someone says, "If you want to argue about what's most American, it was first settled by PROTESTANTS, leaving the CATHOLIC church. So that's an interesting point, but an aside." But the truth is that America was first settled by PROTESTANTS, leaving the persecution of another PROTESTANT church, does that make Confused a blatant liar?
Interesting that Confused does not address this in his reply. Most interesting indeed.
#928 Aug 13, 2014
Confused wrote: "I find on a daily level I disagree with a host of people on a host of topics yet I don't hate them."
How should I feel about a person who bashes my religion based on so-called historical fact when that fact is a made-up lie? A lie fabricated for the sole purpose of putting my religion & I down.
How should I feel about that person???
#929 Aug 13, 2014
The Puritans, a much larger group than the Pilgrims, established the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1629 with 400 settlers. Puritans were English Protestants who wished to reform and purify the Church of England in the New World of what they considered to be unacceptable residues of Roman Catholicism.
#930 Aug 13, 2014
College Student do you know what the word 'first' means? It does not mean 'second' or 'third'.
Puritans, by definition, were dissatisfied with the limited extent of the English Reformation, and the Church of England's tolerance of practices which they associated with the Catholic Church.
So you do agree with the Xenos position of no tolerance for other religions? You must, as your argument is again against the Catholic church. When will it the madness end?
#931 Aug 13, 2014
Do you agree with the position of no tolerance for other religions? Your language seems to be the most emotionally charged and full of malice. When will your madness end?
#932 Aug 14, 2014
Mimicking your opponent is no way to win a debate. Now as to your accusation. When my religion is attacked, defamed & slandered I may be somewhat emotional in the defense of my faith. When it comes to our young people here in Columbus, their being brain-washed, deceived & torn from their families & friends, yes that does evoke some emotion. Unlike those in the Xenos cult, we in the real world have emotions. We are not hard-hearted.
Your 'church' attacks almost all other religions in their teachings. But you expect us to simply ignore all that? Would you 'tolerate' a termite who was eating away at the foundation of your house?'Tolerate' a thousand termites?
Your reply shows that you have nothing intelligent to say & certainly nothing to debate. Your failure to respond to the points I have made shows the world that I am correct about Xenos.
#933 Aug 14, 2014
Why does Xenos use shunning?
Any member of Xenos is constantly pressured with the threat of shunning. Xenos leaders are continually reminding members that if they are asked to leave, or even choose to leave Xenos, they can forget about keeping any friends they have there. And this shunning will be for life.
The Xenos official position is, "This is for the leavers own good, to realize what they are missing." Any Xenos member that does not shun the former member will be disciplined severely within their group for each & every violation even if it is the former member's family, wife or husband.
#934 Aug 14, 2014
U.S. Federal District Court has found shunning as practiced by a religious group & its leaders rises to the level of a hate crime. Religious leaders in Ohio have been charged with hate crimes, found guilty as charged, convicted, sentenced to prison & are now serving out that sentence.
Just a warning.
#935 Aug 14, 2014
#936 Aug 15, 2014
Thousands of complaints about Xenos and Fishhouse over last 40 years. Hundreds directed at Dennis directly for the types of behaviors mentioned. I have deleted the significant ones that are so damaging that it would stumble younger believers (or older undeveloped believers). Ere are thousands of churches who are evangelical and have grown quickly that don't have a dozen such complaints in 40 years.
And yet every so often I run into someone who seems to interpret the data of their experience differently. It seems to strain credulity to believe Dennis treated a home group leader with an once of respect back in the 1980s as not one home church leader ever disagreed with my description of his antics. But some didn't seem bothered at all by his and other leaders' manipulation and suggested that I should "just get with the program"! Statements like "God has given him a special calling and ability" preceded pleas by some leaders that I should exhibit the same fawning behavior that Dennis commanded from them. But you are the first I have met that say "you never saw any of these behaviors." I was leaving when you would have been joining and imagine you would have become a homegroup leader in the early 1990s. But that still doesn't explain the data I have from my friends who remained (at every level of leadership) at Xenos to this day. "Dennis has mellowed with age," is the best descriptor I can get from them not "he never was abusive, undeveloped, or manipulative."
That said, I'm glad you have had a great experience at Xenos and this is why I encourage certain people to go there. Dennis has put together a very rigorous program of discipleship that is second to none. And many of the leaders who left Xenos and wound up at Vineyard in the early 1990s quickly became the some of the best homegroup leaders at Vineyard due to their preparation at Xenos. Also, although we differ about the data at Xenos, we would agree that it was an absolute blast to labor together in furthering the gospel and advance of the kingdom while at Xenos. Those were some heady times in a golden age of both Xenos and my young exuberant Christian walk.
#937 Aug 15, 2014
STOP REPLYING TO "Casual Observer"!
Of what benefit is it to have someone who knows nothing about Xenos give you opinions about Xenos?
This individual just seems to be trolling. I'm not even sure that he/she is Christian, much less understand ecclesiology!
We don't go to our barber or bartender to get their opinion about Cosmology, or the progress or lack of progress on the grand unified theory.
I get why parents w/ teenagers who go to Xenos might post on this sight. Those parents might not be familiar with Xenos or Christianity proper. But they are why this site was created.
If you stop responding maybe "Casual Observer" will share his Cliff Clavenesque comments on another blog.
#938 Aug 15, 2014
Point of fact. I do know about Xenos. I am there every week talking with its members.
Point of fact. I am a Christian. Repeatedly I have stated that I am a Catholic. We are the original Christians.
'Ecclesiology', wow that's a 10 dollar word. Better whip out my dictionary.
I am attacked on this forum over & over for speaking the truth. I am insulted, put down, defamed & slandered on a constant basis. Not a single person will respond to what I am posting without first disrespecting me. Generally all I get are the insults. No one will argue what I am posting for it is the truth & cannot be defended by the members of Xenos.
Uber genius [what a humble name] in his post right above this one readily admits that he has personally witnessed "leaders' manipulation". Yet he does not respond to post concerning shunning.
Uber genius still has loyalty toward Xenos as evidenced by his unwillingness to reveal the very worst of what Xenos has done to our young people. Read the following quote from his previous post. "Thousands of complaints about Xenos and Fishhouse over last 40 years. Hundreds directed at Dennis directly for the types of behaviors mentioned. I have deleted the significant ones that are so damaging that it would stumble younger believers (or older undeveloped believers)."
Uber genius you don't care about what happens to these young folks of today? You would keep the worst of the truth from them? This is Christian?
Uber genius wrote, "We don't go to our barber or bartender to get their opinion about Cosmology, or the progress or lack of progress on the grand unified theory." So the barber & the bartender are lower class people? They are not permitted to speak on religion? Are they permitted to speak at all? Is their opinion worthless as you believe they themselves are worthless? Obviously the barber & bartender would not be admitted into your church as they are so beneath you.
I've got news for you partner. You are not the Uber genius you think you are. You do have a superiority complex though. Perhaps you should get some counseling for that.
#939 Aug 15, 2014
Case No. 5:11 CR 594
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. SAMUEL MULLET, SR., et al.
U.S. District Judge Dan Aaron Polster
Xenos be warned!
#940 Aug 16, 2014
Not sure what's going on with the side track, so I'll just throw in another curious thing I remember...
Xenos itself did a study (in the 80's or 90's?) to investigate why they had such a bad rep / reputation as a cult. They were asking random people what they had heard about Xenos and compiling stats (you know how they have that database full of stats on everything. I was always slightly creeped at this seeming attempt to control and measure).
I remember looking over an old comb bound report they published with their data and conclusions.(Do any old leaders remembers seeing or reading this?! I think the copy I saw was blue.) And I don't remember the conclusions drawn being much more insightful than "haters gonna hate"
It just struck me as so entirely obtuse, that the memory of that study/report really stuck with me. And so representative of the Xenos approach.(Like they don't know why this reputation prevails). "Out of 100 people on the street, how many think Xenos is a cult? What action, if any, should we take? Database says... inconclusive. As you were."
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