Casual Observer

Columbus, OH

#898 Aug 11, 2014
Logan wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't promise anything. I can't recant my statement, right now I'm choosing to respond because I don't think you should get to bully your way through this forum misquoting people, just so you can continue your tirade of hate through here. I just wish you'd actually state your concerns rather than twisting them into accusations. And be open minded enough to discuss them. But you're so adamant that xenos is the worst thing ever that you're hell-bent on saying anything you can "truethful" or otherwise, that you're not even willing to discuss this with mindset that maybe you're not a 100 percent right. There's 12 major religions, and over a thousand other religions with smaller numbers. Of course xenos isn't going to agree with them all. How did xenos decide it's stance on several things? It (now pay attention here cause this might be shocking to you) read the BIBLE. We don't quote leviticus all the time and gay bash and picket and say everyone who is us is going to hell. We read the Bible and see how it applies to our lives. We study the innerancy of it so we can decide for ourselves how valid it is. Xenos does disagree with a lot (a lot, not all) of other world views. But you're clearly emotionally driven in your hate for us, so I already know these words are falling on deaf ears. But in my multiple years with xenos I've never been pressured or been in an uncomfortable circumstance, and my family and friendships are better than ever. I've grown a lot from reading God's word and learning for it, and I think I'm better for it. I wish more people would be able have the experience I've had, but It's people like you that do your best to dress us up as this boogeyman syndicate that I want to fight against. You're lying about us, and I don't think that's right, and I'm going speak my side of it.
What happened to: "This is last time I'll be acknowledging that person." Who is the liar now?
Casual Observer

Columbus, OH

#899 Aug 11, 2014
If a loyal member of Xenos can lie so easily & break their word of honor so quickly, what does that say about the church itself? Makes one think doesn't it?
Casual Observer

Columbus, OH

#900 Aug 11, 2014
Let's tally up what I'm accused of by self-rightious Logan, that most holy member of the cult of Xenos.

1. I am a bully.

2. I misquote people,

3. I have a tirade of hate.

4. I don't state my concerns.

5. I twist them into accusations.

6. I am not open minded.

7. I am hell-bent.

8. I am not even willing to discuss anything.

9. I am emotionally driven in my hate for Xenos.

10. I have deaf ears.

11. I am lying about Xenos.

This is all from one single post by Logan. Wow! This is what a cult does to a person after they are brain-washed. Does this sound like someone from a loving & caring church? This cult forces those who join to distance themselves from all family & friends. Then they 'educate & indoctrinate' these new members. In the end they have a loyal worker bee who will go to any length to defend the cult.
Casual Observer

Columbus, OH

#901 Aug 11, 2014
I find it interesting that I posted an article directly from the Xenos website. I quoted it exactly, word for word. No mention of this from always correct Logan. Although he accuses me of misquoting people. The article puts down Catholics for their beliefs. That is wrong & against the teachings of our Lord Jesus. Cults always operate with an 'us vs. them' attitude, stirring up hate for all other religions. We Catholics don't. I have said prayers at the Bimah in a Jewish synagogue. We were so welcome there. In the services over & over it spoke of the 'brotherhood of man' & 'peace on earth'. I even had the Rabbi bless my son at the Sanctuary of the Ark in front of the Torah scrolls, their most holy place. The Ark is also called the Aron Kodesh ("holy cabinet"). This was a great honor. God was listening & blessed my son that day. God does not reside only at the Xenos cult. Much like a misguided child is the Xenos organization. God the Father, as all fathers, loves his children but hates to see one go astray.
Uber genius

Columbus, OH

#903 Aug 12, 2014
Old-timer wrote:
I’ve been involved in Xenos since 1986. Most of the negative posts on this forum are outrageous and from people who are clearly misinformed. Some of the criticisms are based on *legitimate* observations. Based on the 800+ posts on this topic, combined with my personal experience from when I was in college and in Xenos – and now that I hear stories from my kids who are in college and going to Xenos – my conclusion is that the majority of legitimate complaints are due to the immaturity of college kids – whether you are just an average Xenos kid or a “trained leader”(meaning you’ve taken a few leadership classes and have been a Christian a little longer than the kids you are “discipling”). I have my concerns, but I think the evidence shows that the Xenos college ministry is basically going in the right direction, based on traditional Biblical truths, and that they have good intentions.
All of this “cult” talk is just nonsense. Any person or group who is radically committed to following Jesus is going to raise concerns from the average, compromised religious person – or atheists, or whoever.
God has called Dennis, his mother, and younger brothers to create a church for people who would never darken the door of a typical church. Although I have been critical and detailed about the abuses there is no doubt in my mind God is behind Xenos' phenomenal impact on central Ohio for Christ. Although immature leadership is the effect I would differ on correlating that effect primarily with "immarity of college kids." Although your thesis has significant plausibility, it is not supported by my experience. I was promoted to Home Group leadership in the mid-1980s. I was stunned by the immaturity of Dennis, his mother and his brothers. Although Gary didn't join them in their practice of same, he watched passively. Methods were developed and passed out to Home Group Leaders to steer people away from the conclusion that Senior Leadership was immature. That's right. I have highlighted, in a post in the spring, the details of Martha's teaching given during a leadership meeting with several hundred leaders, how we should respond to claims that we were a cult or controlling/manipulative. At the time I thought,"Aren't we supposed to repent once we have identified sin in our lives, not obfuscate!"
I propose that when you see a culture of arrogance and controlling, manipulative behavior one should always look to the executive leadership. My shock came first-hand as I watched leaders being cussed out by Dennis for not making their growth numbers. He would berate people horribly in these closed-door home group leaders meetings. Likewise some elders quickly fell in line with similar tactics. These were behaviors I never saw in my first several years attending Xenos cell groups, home groups, CTs, workers meetings, as well as classes. Once at the Home Group Leadership level that all changed. It was so undeveloped it made all the teaching about sanctification and spiritual formation seem hypocritical.
If information about God and church is all we can gain as Christians then Xenos is the penultimate church. But if we can truly transform our lives through a process of death to self, and development of the fruit of the spirit so we can be salt and light to the world, then I would look elsewhere. One of the striking attributes of God (Jesus) is his great humility. I knew and enjoyed over 3-dozen home group, sphere leaders and elders in my 7+ years at Xenos and only a couple could be describe as humble. Tons of theology at Xenos but little to no spiritual formation.
Uber genius

Columbus, OH

#904 Aug 12, 2014
Logan wrote:
<quoted text>
Though I disagree with your opinion, I very much respect your way of rationally stating your claim and backing it up with experience. I wish there more people like you on this forum to debate with, and I wish you all the best.
Logan,

Read my posts since November of 2013! This is as inside as you get. 7 yrs at Xenos, lived in ministry house for 3 years, Home Group Leader for 3 years. Half-dozen friends that were elders at one time at Xenos from 1980- current. Everyone who was a homegroup leader can help you gain insight on the data that is being obscured. Not saying you should leave Xenos or that God has not called McCallum's to create a counter-culture church. Just saying count the cost, and ask yourself why Xenos has hundreds of complaints per year of manipulation since the early 1970s. I wasn't burned, just stunned by what I learned. Helped dozens of people who have left Xenos (mostly leaders) start heir spiritual formation that never occurred while they were at Xenos.
Uber genius

Columbus, OH

#905 Aug 12, 2014
sadcarrot wrote:
UberGenius, you seem to have a good handle on both the good and bad things about Xenos, and I have to agree with you on most of it. Any suggestions for churches in the Columbus area for someone who has recently left Xenos? I've been searching for awhile and am struggling to find a church that shares Xenos' zeal for reaching the lost, the emphasis on smaller groups and the awesome teachings.
Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I am going to a small homegroup in New Albany (church is only 50 adults). It is called Watershed. It is entirely focused on spiritual formation. It meets in peoples homes and doesn't even have a sign or webpage. We give 40% of money away to needy and leader doesn't take a paycheck.

Vineyard has some strong teaching and hundreds of Homegroups. But don't go unless you find a home group you enjoy. I would avoid any church that doesn't have home groups.

Finally pray for a group that needs your gift-mix and that can shore-up your weaknesses. God is mighty and will draw you to a place that is a great fit.
Old-timer

Columbus, OH

#906 Aug 12, 2014
It's been my experience - and this is confirmed by many people over the years - that you can have a radically different experience at Xenos depending on what home church you are in, who the sphere leaders are, etc. I've been in Xenos for 28 years, lived in ministry house for 6 years, and was a home group leader for 3 years and I haven't experienced any of the things you mentioned.
Uber genius wrote:
<quoted text>
God has called Dennis, his mother, and younger brothers to create a church for people who would never darken the door of a typical church. Although I have been critical and detailed about the abuses there is no doubt in my mind God is behind Xenos' phenomenal impact on central Ohio for Christ. Although immature leadership is the effect I would differ on correlating that effect primarily with "immarity of college kids." Although your thesis has significant plausibility, it is not supported by my experience. I was promoted to Home Group leadership in the mid-1980s. I was stunned by the immaturity of Dennis, his mother and his brothers. Although Gary didn't join them in their practice of same, he watched passively. Methods were developed and passed out to Home Group Leaders to steer people away from the conclusion that Senior Leadership was immature. That's right. I have highlighted, in a post in the spring, the details of Martha's teaching given during a leadership meeting with several hundred leaders, how we should respond to claims that we were a cult or controlling/manipulative. At the time I thought,"Aren't we supposed to repent once we have identified sin in our lives, not obfuscate!"

I propose that when you see a culture of arrogance and controlling, manipulative behavior one should always look to the executive leadership. My shock came first-hand as I watched leaders being cussed out by Dennis for not making their growth numbers. He would berate people horribly in these closed-door home group leaders meetings. Likewise some elders quickly fell in line with similar tactics. These were behaviors I never saw in my first several years attending Xenos cell groups, home groups, CTs, workers meetings, as well as classes. Once at the Home Group Leadership level that all changed. It was so undeveloped it made all the teaching about sanctification and spiritual formation seem hypocritical.

If information about God and church is all we can gain as Christians then Xenos is the penultimate church. But if we can truly transform our lives through a process of death to self, and development of the fruit of the spirit so we can be salt and light to the world, then I would look elsewhere. One of the striking attributes of God (Jesus) is his great humility. I knew and enjoyed over 3-dozen home group, sphere leaders and elders in my 7+ years at Xenos and only a couple could be describe as humble. Tons of theology at Xenos but little to no spiritual formation.
Logan

Columbus, OH

#907 Aug 12, 2014
Reply to Casual Observer

1: I never "Gave my word" to not respond, I was responding emotionally to your antagonizing. I have every right to respond if I choose.

2: 1 person doesn't dictate overall attitude or beliefs of a church or any other organization, this is true even in the business world. The fact that you want to hoist me up as some bad example, shows how desperate your are to make us look bad.

3: It's inflammatory to call someone brainwashed, you don't even know me, who I am now, or who I was before today. You have no right to assume any part of my life and say that I'm brain-washed.

4: Xenos is a great church, but I'm only human, a human who can get frustrated when talking someone like you, who in my opinion, has done nothing but lie since the first post I've read. So again, your attempt to make me out as a negative face for xenos is just BS.

5: It's an outrageous claim that xenos forces people away from others. I've already given my testimony, of how my relationships are stronger than ever. And I've seen no evidence of cult activity in the several years I've attended.

6: I think you're just saying whatever you like because xenos doesn't agree with your catholic views. Catholicism isn't the great church you seem to think it is. The Catholic Church was once responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history.

7: As far as that quote you refer to, I didn't respond to it, because I saw nothing wrong with what you quoted from the xenos website. Yeah it disagrees with certain (certain, not all) catholic doctrines, and the ones your quote listed, I would agree with. Confession isn't mandatory to retain your salvation.

8: "The article puts down Catholics for their beliefs. That is wrong & against the teachings of our Lord Jesus." - What teaching are you speaking of that this contradicts? Christ constantly attacked the beliefs of the pharisees because they were wrong, and if the Catholic church is using un-biblical doctrine, we as Christians have a right to call them out on that.

9: Xenos isn't "us vs them", every summer we invite several speakers from several churches all over the U.S. and even other countries, to teach. Would we do that if we're as isolationist as you imply?

10: Xenos teachings don't actually frequent the topics of other faiths. So to say it stirs up hate is being hyperbolic, and when other faiths are mentioned and disagreed upon, it's not done in hate, it's done with evidence from the bible, "This is what the bible says, thus this is what we think", "This is what that religion believes, and this where it contradicts the Bible". This is generally how discussions of incorrect faiths go, so how is there any hate in that?

11: You paint Catholicism to be this all loving church, but what about the centuries of genocide, holy wars, witch hunts, molestation, coercion, and all around secrecy of it. You love slinging mud at a 40 year old church with no major issues in it's history, but turn a blind eye to your own church's flawed past. Am I really the one on the high horse here, or is it you?

12: I'm glad you had a great experience with a Rabbi at the sanctuary of the Ark, but I don't like to place stock in spiritual experiences. Anybody can say they've felt God's presence in one situation or another, regardless if that situation is biblical, or un-biblical. If you have an experience, great, but how is that going to help anyone else around you? It won't too much, an experience usually only affects the one who experiences it.

13: Xenos desires to fulfill Matthew 28:19 "Make disciples of all nations" & wants to equip it's members with as much information that can help us argue for God's existence, and that Christ is his son, and that you need to receive his sacrifice to be made perfect in the eyes of God, and once your receive Christ's gift, your saved forever. So what in there is wrong to you.
Logan

Columbus, OH

#908 Aug 12, 2014
Reply to Casual Observer

1: I never "Gave my word" to not respond, I was responding emotionally to your antagonizing. I have every right to respond if I choose.

2: 1 person doesn't dictate overall attitude or beliefs of a church or any other organization, this is true even in the business world. The fact that you want to hoist me up as some bad example, shows how desperate your are to make us look bad.

3: It's inflammatory to call someone brainwashed, you don't even know me, who I am now, or who I was before today. You have no right to assume any part of my life and say that I'm brain-washed.

4: Xenos is a great church, but I'm only human, a human who can get frustrated when talking someone like you, who in my opinion, has done nothing but lie since the first post I've read. So again, your attempt to make me out as a negative face for xenos is just BS.

5: It's an outrageous claim that xenos forces people away from others. I've already given my testimony, of how my relationships are stronger than ever. And I've seen no evidence of cult activity in the several years I've attended.

6: I think you're just saying whatever you like because xenos doesn't agree with your catholic views. Catholicism isn't the great church you seem to think it is. The Catholic Church was once responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history.
Logan

Columbus, OH

#909 Aug 12, 2014
7: As far as that quote you refer to, I didn't respond to it, because I saw nothing wrong with what you quoted from the xenos website. Yeah it disagrees with certain (certain, not all) catholic doctrines, and the ones your quote listed, I would agree with. Confession isn't mandatory to retain your salvation.

8: "The article puts down Catholics for their beliefs. That is wrong & against the teachings of our Lord Jesus." - What teaching are you speaking of that this contradicts? Christ constantly attacked the beliefs of the pharisees because they were wrong, and if the Catholic church is using un-biblical doctrine, we as Christians have a right to call them out on that.

9: Xenos isn't "us vs them", every summer we invite several speakers from several churches all over the U.S. and even other countries, to teach. Would we do that if we're as isolationist as you imply?

10: Xenos teachings don't actually frequent the topics of other faiths. So to say it stirs up hate is being hyperbolic, and when other faiths are mentioned and disagreed upon, it's not done in hate, it's done with evidence from the bible, "This is what the bible says, thus this is what we think", "This is what that religion believes, and this where it contradicts the Bible". This is generally how discussions of incorrect faiths go, so how is there any hate in that?

11: You paint Catholicism to be this all loving church, but what about the centuries of genocide, holy wars, witch hunts, molestation, coercion, and all around secrecy of it. You love slinging mud at a 40 year old church with no major issues in it's history, but turn a blind eye to your own church's flawed past. Am I really the one on the high horse here, or is it you?

12: I'm glad you had a great experience with a Rabbi at the sanctuary of the Ark, but I don't like to place stock in spiritual experiences. Anybody can say they've felt God's presence in one situation or another, regardless if that situation is biblical, or un-biblical. If you have an experience, great, but how is that going to help anyone else around you? It won't too much, an experience usually only affects the one who experiences it.

13: Xenos desires to fulfill Matthew 28:19 "Make disciples of all nations" & wants to equip it's members with as much information that can help us argue for God's existence, and that Christ is his son, and that you need to receive his sacrifice to be made perfect in the eyes of God, and once your receive Christ's gift, your saved forever. So what in there is wrong to you.
Very Clear

New York, NY

#910 Aug 12, 2014
I had participated in Xenos for about 20 years, a good third of that time in some leadership role.

I left around 2006 of my own accord. However there was quite a bit of controversy over problems I was having personally and my response to "leadership" handling of said problems. When it came down to it, three things became very apparent:

1) Xenos' entire guidance comes from subtly dictated interpretation of bible scripture based on flawed (or lack of) scholorship and straw-man logic.
2) There is a social hierarchy which will not yeild itself despite evidence of wrongs or reason.
3) Numbers are number one.

I have since firmly rejected Xenos' model of "spirituality" and through further investigation and authentic study, I have rejected Christianity as well.

Is my heart full now? Yes.
Logan

Columbus, OH

#911 Aug 12, 2014
Lastly, I don't intend to come off self-righteous. I'll admit that I've failed multiple times in not letting my emotions get involved with my replies to you, but I also would state my emotional response is a reciprocal response to your bias and emotional anger towards me and my church. If you have an argument fine, state it, and let us talk about it, but you don't just bring up an argument, you sling mud and antagonize, and yes I've responded while emotionally compromised to what you've said. If I knew you in person, I'd apologize for that manner in which I speak, but now what I say. Though my etiquette has been lacking, and I apologize for that, I still stand by my defensive claims for my church, and my offensive claims about your bias. I think you've had some bad experience somewhere down the road, and instead of bringing that up, you just keep stating that we're a cult, but without any experience with us. You told your experience with your son at the temple of the ark, so tell my your example of your experience with xenos.
Logan

Columbus, OH

#912 Aug 12, 2014
Uber genius wrote:
<quoted text>
Logan,
Read my posts since November of 2013! This is as inside as you get. 7 yrs at Xenos, lived in ministry house for 3 years, Home Group Leader for 3 years. Half-dozen friends that were elders at one time at Xenos from 1980- current. Everyone who was a homegroup leader can help you gain insight on the data that is being obscured. Not saying you should leave Xenos or that God has not called McCallum's to create a counter-culture church. Just saying count the cost, and ask yourself why Xenos has hundreds of complaints per year of manipulation since the early 1970s. I wasn't burned, just stunned by what I learned. Helped dozens of people who have left Xenos (mostly leaders) start heir spiritual formation that never occurred while they were at Xenos.
I'm not sure what you mean by inside, I don't seek any sort of position within xenos or inside information. I'm not sure what you mean.

I doubt there's hundreds of people making complaints every year. If that were the case I believe there'd be more news about it to the public, rather than just forums like this. If you have numbers of people complaining, and sources of Xenos's mistakes, please post them here, I'm willing to look at them and see.

Again, I have the utmost respect for you for your method of debate and look forward to discussing this more with you.
Casual Observer

Columbus, OH

#913 Aug 12, 2014
Casual Observer wrote:
From the Xenos website:
"Confession to others is necessary in order to gain or keep God's acceptance." Of course, the main source of this misconception is Roman Catholicism. According to Roman Catholic doctrine, the priest has divine authority to dispense God's forgiveness through the sacrament of confession and penance. Unless you are willing to confess your sins to a priest and follow his instructions on doing penance, you cannot be forgiven by God.
I am not here to bash Roman Catholicism, but this teaching directly contradicts the main message of the New Testament. The good news is not that God doles out forgiveness week by week through a priest prescribing penance--but that God grants you complete and permanent forgiveness once and for all when you confess your guilt before him and receive Christ's full payment for it (read Rom. 5:1). This is the basis for all biblical confession to other people. When you have received Christ and know that God now accepts you apart from your works (including rituals like this), you can afford to be honest with him and other people. If you want to experience the benefits of confession to other people (and there are many, as we will see), you first need to experience the benefit of God's complete forgiveness.
The second most prevalent misconception is that "since God alone ultimately forgives sin, there is no need for confession to others." This is the Protestant over-reaction to the Roman Catholic error. Confession should always begin with God because all sin is first and foremost cosmic treason--an act of rebellion against God (Ps. 51:4). But the Bible teaches that we should often confess our sins to other people (Jas. 5:16) for reasons we'll discuss in a moment. To use God's forgiveness as an excuse for not confessing to others betrays a serious misunderstanding of God's grace.
This same passage corrects another widespread misconception: "Only professional Christians should handle confessions." With many people, this professional is the pastor or priest--the old unbiblical clergy-laity distinction. With others, this professional is the counselor--the new priests of our therapeutic culture.
You may need some special advice from vocational Christian workers for special issues, but you need to get to the point that you experience the liberating comfort and power of confessing most of your sins to other Christian friends. Jas. 5:16 does not say "to the professional"--but "to one another." All Christians should be involved in reciprocal confession whenever it is needed. Otherwise, you will lead a defeated Christian life.
This is one of the most practical ways to gauge whether your involvement in Christian community is on a biblical level. Are you involved enough with other Christians that you are sharing your sins and defeats with them and asking them for help? Are you involved enough that they do the same with you? Then you aren't involved enough--and you're missing out on one of the most wonderful provisions God makes for your spiritual growth ...
- See more at: http://www.xenos.org/teachings/...
Xenos teaching criticize all other faiths. They have zero tolerance for any other church but their own. I am Catholic. All we do is speak with the priest about our sins. He tries to help us lead a better life with a little guidance. The forgiveness comes from God. The fact that we admit openly to our sins with a caring priest means we are sorry for committing them. Always we are told to make amends for any transgressions against others. It really isn't the issue that people make it out to be.
This Xenos article is nothing. You should read the rest.
Again no response to my post regarding Xenos criticisms of all Catholics.That's because it is 'business as usual' for the Xenos cult.
Casual Observer

Columbus, OH

#914 Aug 12, 2014
In the United States, freedom of religion is a constitutionally guaranteed right provided in the religion clauses of the First Amendment. The Xenos cult seeks to disparage & bash other religions contrary to our U.S. Constitution. Very un-american & most disconcerting.

From the Xenos website:

Eternal Security - Christian Ministry 1 Light - Introduction to Theology
2: Roman Catholic soteriology. According to Catholic theology, our salvation is not secure. Why is this?... The Catholic system is wrong in three important areas:.
www.xenos.org/classes/.../unit1/cml1w6student...

Christian Principles: Soteriology - The Security of Our Salvation
Radical Arminianism; Roman Catholic Soteriology; Water Baptism; Lordship Theology ..... The Catholic system is wrong in three important areas. First, it holds ...
www.xenos.org/classes/principles/cpu1w5.htm

Christian Principles Unit 1 - Soteriology: The Security of Our Salvation
The Roman Catholic church relies on two sources of authority for doctrine: the Bible ... Roman Catholic soteriology is wrong in three important areas. 1.
https://www.xenos.org/classes/principles/hand...

The Security of Our Salvation - Xenos Christian Fellowship
Roman Catholic soteriology.• Water baptism .... condition for justification ( Catholic theology)...... The Catholic system is wrong in three important areas:• First ...
www.xenos.org/classes/.../unit1/cml1w6lecture...

We Catholics sure are wrong a lot according to the Xenos people. And this is just a sampling from their website. And the Catholics are just one religion that they pick on. We Catholics are not perfect, we are just people. We do try to love our brother, we don't publish & promote such anti-american derogatory summations of other religions.

At first I was concerned about the young people of Xenos & I still am. But upon further research into the Xenos theology of hatred I am even more concerned about their anti-american activities. Is this an attempt to undermine our way of life? It certainly is a violation of our Constitutionally protected freedom of religion. Xenos ought to be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps a Congressional inquiry into their un-american activities is in order.
Very Clear

New York, NY

#915 Aug 12, 2014
Logan wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt there's hundreds of people making complaints every year. If that were the case I believe there'd be more news about it to the public, rather than just forums like this.
Regarding the above point, there isn't "more news about it to the public" because the public at large doesn't care. I have heard may unsolicited complaints from people who have never been to the church as well as those who have experienced it. Xenos would like to believe it is an important movement, but it is not. To its leaders it is. To most of the average attendees, it's a nice group of friends. To those who don't buy the rolling presuppositions which lead to "building the kingdom of God", Xenos is a self-important club at play. Some more extreme people may see it as dangerous. I don't think it has the teeth to be dangerous...yet. Everyone in it is there of their own accord and ultimately it is their responsiblility to take care of themselves.

However, there is no doubt complications which arise from relationships (the "heart" of Xenos' ministry) can cause traumas which require professional help. In these cases, I do think the affected need support, part of which is a firm view of the damage that the institution of Xenos has caused.
Old-timer

Chicago, IL

#916 Aug 12, 2014
Your post is very interesting. So - in the end - you rejected "Christianity" - ALL OF IT. I am genuinely curious ... are you saying that you would have come up with the same conclusion no matter what church you were involved with?
Very Clear wrote:
I had participated in Xenos for about 20 years, a good third of that time in some leadership role.
I left around 2006 of my own accord. However there was quite a bit of controversy over problems I was having personally and my response to "leadership" handling of said problems. When it came down to it, three things became very apparent:
1) Xenos' entire guidance comes from subtly dictated interpretation of bible scripture based on flawed (or lack of) scholorship and straw-man logic.
2) There is a social hierarchy which will not yeild itself despite evidence of wrongs or reason.
3) Numbers are number one.
I have since firmly rejected Xenos' model of "spirituality" and through further investigation and authentic study, I have rejected Christianity as well.
Is my heart full now? Yes.
Logan

Columbus, OH

#917 Aug 12, 2014
Very Clear wrote:
<quoted text>
Regarding the above point, there isn't "more news about it to the public" because the public at large doesn't care. I have heard may unsolicited complaints from people who have never been to the church as well as those who have experienced it. Xenos would like to believe it is an important movement, but it is not. To its leaders it is. To most of the average attendees, it's a nice group of friends. To those who don't buy the rolling presuppositions which lead to "building the kingdom of God", Xenos is a self-important club at play. Some more extreme people may see it as dangerous. I don't think it has the teeth to be dangerous...yet. Everyone in it is there of their own accord and ultimately it is their responsiblility to take care of themselves.
However, there is no doubt complications which arise from relationships (the "heart" of Xenos' ministry) can cause traumas which require professional help. In these cases, I do think the affected need support, part of which is a firm view of the damage that the institution of Xenos has caused.
Alright, you have experiential evidence, which I can't argue against. I respect that. So if you could sit the elders of xenos down in a room and tell them what you don't like, what you would change, what would you say? How can we improve?
Logan

Columbus, OH

#918 Aug 12, 2014
Hahaha, to notsocasualobserver's last post, I know I should react like this http://imgur.com/a/yGacg#10 , but instead I can't help but think http://imgur.com/a/AXues#21 .

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Columbus Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Racist Ferguson Police 20 min Catman Dave 36
Driver faces homicide charge (Jul '09) 24 min Big Johnson 222
What ails the black family? Hard realities! 1 hr Captain Obvious 283
A Simple Solution is Don't Challenge the Police... 2 hr Big Johnson 7
America needs Jesus Christ and the Word of God 3 hr They cannot kill ... 128
Heroin catches on in suburbia | The Columbus Di... (Jan '10) 3 hr Reality Speaks 7
Is Barack Obama Doing a Good Job as President? (Aug '13) 4 hr They cannot kill ... 5,833
Bibi 4 hr Ebay Purple Heart 79
Columbus Dating
Find my Match
More from around the web

Columbus People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]

NFL Latest News

Updated 11:42 am PST

Bleacher Report11:42AM
Run Stuffing DTs Headline Browns' Free Agent Big Board
Bleacher Report 1:09 PM
Bengals Re-Sign LB Maualuga to 3-Year Deal
NFL 1:16 PM
Cincinnati Bengals re-sign Rey Maualuga
ESPN 1:25 PM
Bengals re-sign MLB Maualuga for 3 years
CBS Sports 1:49 PM
Hoyer on Manziel: 'It takes a big person to check into rehab'